Continuation Part 5: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[platonov]

Dig the ****** up and hang him again – rules Klan 'judge'!

I think that the witnesses should be tried for calumnia.
I can't believe that Briars et al. of the PG POV won't bring themselves to admit the huge issues with the witnesses.

They have issue with Q being questioned a few days after the murder, they are shown that it was really 17 days later.

<snip>

Absolutely, but wait ….

As the courts, as well as all the witnesses, cops etc are part of the vast conspiracy it probably wont happen.


Why not try putting Guede on trial again. This seems the appropriate response of freedom lovers everywhere when 2 white suspects killers have their acquittals quashed.

Such a campaign would really show the world what the groupies are made of and that they mean business.

ETA Or is this too outlandish even for cartwheel world?

 

[codyjuneau]

Clues ?

.
Charlie posted some pics a while back and I have been meaning to post a couple of things I noticed that I have not heard discussed before, so might be of interest, or at least a reminder.

Besides the leaf on the window sill in picture dcs_0105.jpg, there is also a leaf on the floor in picture dcs_0078.jpg.

In picture dcs_0238.jpg, besides blood being on the inside handle of Meredith's door, there is also an arc of blood on the door itself which indicates the handle was turned to open the door with a very bloody hand. In other words, the door was shut and latched when the attacker got blood on his hands.

I cannot post the photos at the moment because they are on another computer waiting for a repair part.
.

 

[Grinder]

Apparently the fact that a black man killed Meredith leaving his DNA on her, in her and around her as well as hand prints and shoe prints in Meredith's blood, should be held against Amanda and Raf for being white people.

Such a pity that Rudi isn't white.

For those not aware, while I'm absolutely convinced that the ILE bungled the investigation and they were not shown to be guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, I have focused on their incompetence rather than conspiracy.

The recent SC ruling which gave Quintavalle credibility because he knew she had blue eyes when that fact had been widely reported by the time he came out of the closet a year after the crime, emphasizes their incompetence.

Does anybody have a list of witnesses and the name of the reporter that "discovered" them?

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

I have never seen the photos of Meredith's injuries. Were these posted by Frank before he switched sides? The bruising on both elbows ,the lack of defense wounds . the extent of her injuries and the obvious staging lead him to think... Multiple assailants. Has he resurfaced for further comment?

To the best of my knowledge, nobody has posted these photos publicly.

Meredith had a deep puncture wound on the right side of her throat. This would account for the bleeding between her nightstand and the bed and on the slats of her bed, and the bleeding by her desk and window.

She also had a shallow puncture wound centered just under her chin.

In addition, three small nicks or abrasions were present below the deep puncture wound on the right side of her throat.

The fatal wound was a deep, slashing cut on the left side of her throat, inflicted by an assailant who reached around from behind with the knife in his right hand, plunged it into her neck, and pulled up and from left to right. This caused the massive bleeding visible on the floor in front of her closet, and it also produced the aspirated spray of blood on the doors of the closet.

Parallel to the fatal wound was a shallow, slashing cut on her throat, suggesting the assailant had to make two attempts.

She had a series of small, round bruises along her jaw line, showing that the assailant gripped her face tightly with the fingers of his left hand.

She had minor bruising on her extremities.

She had two defensive cuts on her right hand, as opposed to the many defensive cuts that are often found when a victim tries to fend off a frontal attack with a knife. Meredith was attacked from behind.

 

[platonov]

Oops

There was me wondering if I was too far out when trying to get with the Foaker program but it turns out … Not.

Not alone was my idea not too outlandish – it wasn’t even original
It seems halides1 beat me to the punch.

I am more concerned with Raffaele's legal position right now. Rudy is the person who should be retried and given a proper sentence for his crime. I am not speaking from a legal perspective, obviously.

Oh well – back to the drawing board.

 

[Antony]

Absolutely, but wait ….

As the courts, as well as all the witnesses, cops etc are part of the vast conspiracy it probably wont happen.


Why not try putting Guede on trial again. This seems the appropriate response of freedom lovers everywhere when 2 white suspects killers have their acquittals quashed.

Such a campaign would really show the world what the groupies are made of and that they mean business.

ETA Or is this too outlandish even for cartwheel world?

My understanding is that Guede has never been tried for the burglary - because of the Perugia prosecution's obsession with convicting 2 innocent students. Presumably if the Italian courts come to their senses it could still happen - there is certainly plenty of evidence to convict.

 

[platonov]

My understanding is that Guede has never been tried for the burglary - because of the Perugia prosecution's obsession with convicting 2 innocent students. Presumably if the Italian courts come to their senses it could still happen - there is certainly plenty of evidence to convict.

I was referring to the murder charge, as was halides1.

In any case this will never happen as they are part of the conspiracy and they dont retry convicted killers even if they are ******* - so it will have to be a good ol' fashioned lynching

 

[Bill Williams]

I was referring to the murder charge, as was halides1.

In any case this will never happen as they are part of the conspiracy and they dont retry convicted killers even if they are ******* - so it will have to be a good ol' fashioned lynching

Fortunately, the "vast conspiracy" is coming apart, as judges are breaking ranks. It is simply unprecedented from what I know that sitting and/or retired judges openly dispute the ISC.

Still.... this is not being tried on the evidence anyway. No presence of Knox in the room, three "superwitnesses" one of whom had drug dependency issues seriously compromising his credibility and another who can't testify to the day she heard screams.... one of the possibilities being Hallowe'en itself where screaming is unheard of....

I just hope that JREF stores your IP address... that's all.

 

[Briars]

To the best of my knowledge, nobody has posted these photos publicly.

Meredith had a deep puncture wound on the right side of her throat. This would account for the bleeding between her nightstand and the bed and on the slats of her bed, and the bleeding by her desk and window.

She also had a shallow puncture wound centered just under her chin.

In addition, three small nicks or abrasions were present below the deep puncture wound on the right side of her throat.

The fatal wound was a deep, slashing cut on the left side of her throat, inflicted by an assailant who reached around from behind with the knife in his right hand, plunged it into her neck, and pulled up and from left to right. This caused the massive bleeding visible on the floor in front of her closet, and it also produced the aspirated spray of blood on the doors of the closet.

Parallel to the fatal wound was a shallow, slashing cut on her throat, suggesting the assailant had to make two attempts.

She had a series of small, round bruises along her jaw line, showing that the assailant gripped her face tightly with the fingers of his left hand.

She had minor bruising on her extremities.

She had two defensive cuts on her right hand, as opposed to the many defensive cuts that are often found when a victim tries to fend off a frontal attack with a knife. Meredith was attacked from behind.

The pictures do tell a story. I believe a left handed grip on the neck of the victim while kneeling would result in a grasp of the jaw, not the skin below. The fingers are in the wrong position.The fatal blow may have been while she was on her knees but the small very even bruises look like a frontal grip pushing the head back perhaps while threatening. There are finger bruises gripping both elbows evidence of the restraining of both arms, The injuries are consistent with the lack of defense wounds.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

True Justice for Rudy Guede

Our own RoseMontague weighed in on his sentence. I think Guede is guilty of murder, sexual assault (possibly rape), and burglary or robbery. I also would like to see him sued for slander and perhaps charged with calunnia. I am not holding my breath, not when PM Mignini referred to him as "poor Rudy" in his closing remarks.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

The pictures do tell a story. I believe a left handed grip on the neck of the victim while kneeling would result in a grasp of the jaw, not the skin below. The fingers are in the wrong position.The fatal blow may have been while she was on her knees but the small very even bruises look like a frontal grip pushing the head back perhaps while threatening. There are finger bruises gripping both elbows evidence of the restraining of both arms, The injuries are consistent with the lack of defense wounds.

Have you examined these photos?

 

[Matthew Best]

I suggest that an incompetent person generally has good reason to be corrupt also, even if only to the extent necessary to conceal their incompetence.

Good point.

 

[Briars]

Have you examined these photos?

Yes they are posted here. The small even prints on her throat are not in the right position for the kind of grip you describe from behind. The logistics of that kind of grip by a man wouldn't look like that and would involve the jaw bone in my opinion. Guede left DNA on her left cuff, but someone held both elbows tightly and left large bruises but no DNA.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

Yes they are posted here. The small even prints on her throat are not in the right position for the kind of grip you describe from behind. The logistics of that kind of grip by a man wouldn't look like that and would involve the jaw bone in my opinion. Guede left DNA on her left cuff, but someone held both elbows tightly and left large bruises but no DNA.

Where are these photos posted?

 

[Briars]

RWVVWL posted a link upthread from perugia shock's archives. Is this really the first time they have been posted? As difficult as it was to view them I agree with Frank's opinion at the time , evidence of multiple assailants and staging.

 

[GreyFox]

Yes they are posted here. The small even prints on her throat are not in the right position for the kind of grip you describe from behind. The logistics of that kind of grip by a man wouldn't look like that and would involve the jaw bone in my opinion. Guede left DNA on her left cuff, but someone held both elbows tightly and left large bruises but no DNA.

And just how do you not leave DNA? Wrap yourself in plastic ? I've never heard a good response for this. Makes as much sense as Amanda looking through her bedroom wall and giving the boys orders as they did it.

 

[Grinder]

Yes they are posted here. The small even prints on her throat are not in the right position for the kind of grip you describe from behind. The logistics of that kind of grip by a man wouldn't look like that and would involve the jaw bone in my opinion. Guede left DNA on her left cuff, but someone held both elbows tightly and left large bruises but no DNA.

Briars while I don't like challenges to people's training in specific fields I fing your analysis of these few pictures a stretch. I am not going to argue point by point but there is no reason all the injuries had to happen at the same time.

Is it possible that while being choked she couldn't scream and had no way to fight back?

And just how do you not leave DNA? Wrap yourself in plastic ? I've never heard a good response for this. Makes as much sense as Amanda looking through her bedroom wall and giving the boys orders as they did it.

Yes this is the heart of the issue. Briars has Amanda and/or Raf in there during a violent, violent attack and murder and the only trace left behind is the questionable DNA on one side of the bra.

Briars this seems more of the PGP move on to something new when the last contentions were shown to be weak or just plain wrong.

What was it you were contending about the witnesses?

ETA -

Yes thanks that's my point Sollecito was the regular customer who Q knew . Amanda had only been in a two times and with Sollecito.He was asked about Sollecito who he was familiar with.

Ah no, Volturno asked about both of them on the 19th well after their account of being in until 10:30 was widely known in the Italian press

You also contended that three people heard the scream but only two even claimed that. One of the two said she heard a couple arguing in accentless Italian. Who do you think that was?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

domestic violence and DNA transfer

And just how do you not leave DNA? Wrap yourself in plastic ? I've never heard a good response for this. Makes as much sense as Amanda looking through her bedroom wall and giving the boys orders as they did it.

I agree. In domestic violence cases, DNA is sometimes left by the alleged assailant. Studies of simulated strangling back this idea up. Link to blog entry with references here.

 

[Grinder]

I agree. In domestic violence cases, DNA is sometimes left by the alleged assailant. Studies of simulated strangling back this idea up. Link to blog entry with references here.

I believe it is the case that under Italian law if there are two explanations that point equally to guilt or innocence the latter must be taken. Clearly in this case the wounds and blood can be explained by a single attacker and certainly nothing points to Amanda and Raf (except the 47 day bra) as the possible abettors of Rudi.

If they had aided Rudi one would expect that they would have blood all over themselves and their clothes yet there is no evidence of that nor did they find DNA or blood at Raf's. Where are their clothes? Where are their shoes? Did they go back to the piazza all bloody for Curatolo to see or does his testimony need the time moved again?

 

[Briars]

Briars while I don't like challenges to people's training in specific fields I fing your analysis of these few pictures a stretch. I am not going to argue point by point but there is no reason all the injuries had to happen at the same time.

Is it possible that while being choked she couldn't scream and had no way to fight back?



Yes this is the heart of the issue. Briars has Amanda and/or Raf in there during a violent, violent attack and murder and the only trace left behind is the questionable DNA on one side of the bra.

Briars this seems more of the PGP move on to something new when the last contentions were shown to be weak or just plain wrong.

What was it you were contending about the witnesses?

ETA - Ah no, Volturno asked about both of them on the 19th well after their account of being in until 10:30 was widely known in the Italian press

You also contended that three people heard the scream but only two even claimed that. One of the two said she heard a couple arguing in accentless Italian. Who do you think that was?

Are you responding to my comments about the appearance of the bruising and how it looks like a frontal hold on the neck or not? You also avoided the bruising indicating restraint of both elbows. The arguing could have been Amanda and Guede. The witness heard something that was not in the parking lot but lower near the cottage. Ciolino should have had the window open to hear the footsteps as loud as Capezzeli did as she leaned out hers.