How To Use Bitcoin – The Most Important Creation In The History Of Man

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Ferguson said:
They must be running low on methods of wasting tax dollars.
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The article explains that issuing this type of cease and desist order is increasingly being used as much cheaper substitute for an actual investigation, thereby saving a lot of tax dollars.
 
Ferguson said:
They must be running low on methods of wasting tax dollars.
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A currency that is beyond the control of the government and the banks is a nightmare for any authority.

Since bitcoin isn't actually illegal, the best they can do is harass those who would use it. Expect to see vexatious charges in the future. The cost of justice is so high that just to be charged with a crime is itself a punishment.
 
TjW said:
If they're asked to cease and desist something they're not doing, how can there be an impossible deadline for them to stop?
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It would have to do with a legal theory of a determination of guilt resulting from the party not responding with an adequate defense within the allotted time.

Stalin's tactic: The more innocent they are, the more to persecute them.
 
mhaze said:
It would have to do with a legal theory of a determination of guilt resulting from the party not responding with an adequate defense within the allotted time.

Stalin's tactic: The more innocent they are, the more to persecute them.
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I don't get it. AIUI, a cease-and-desist tells you to stop doing something, usually by such-and-such a date. If you don't stop by the deadline set, you can get in trouble.
If you don't do the something after the deadline, nothing happens, because you have complied.

In the case of a cease-and-desist something you're not doing, you've complied before it was ever sent.
 
TjW said:
In the case of a cease-and-desist something you're not doing, you've complied before it was ever sent.
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But how do you prove that you have ceased and desisted? Presumption of innocence doesn't apply to money cases.

There could be significant legal fees involved in establishing to a courts satisfaction that you are doing nothing wrong and that is the aim of these notices.
 
TjW said:
Really? Prove you don't owe me twenty dollars.
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Now you are getting it. ;)

When the IRS says that you owe them money and you think they are pulling numbers out of their backside, they don't have to prove that you owe them the money - you have to prove that you don't.
 
TjW said:
I don't get it. AIUI, a cease-and-desist tells you to stop doing something, usually by such-and-such a date. If you don't stop by the deadline set, you can get in trouble.
If you don't do the something after the deadline, nothing happens, because you have complied.

In the case of a cease-and-desist something you're not doing, you've complied before it was ever sent.
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Yes, you are thinking logically. That does not matter.

There are many cases in regulatory and administrative law where the absence of a reply by a certain date invokes penalties and/or a presumption of guilt.

This is in marked contrast to criminal law, where even standing mute in a courtroom and refusing to answer "how do you plea" is generally required to cause an entry of "not guilty."
 
psionl0 said:
Now you are getting it. ;)

When the IRS says that you owe them money and you think they are pulling numbers out of their backside, they don't have to prove that you owe them the money - you have to prove that you don't.
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That's true as long as the matter is within the domain of the IRS. If the aggrieved taxpayer took the case on up to federal Tax Court, then numerous legal rules apply.

But when it's just him vs them, insanity can rule.
 
Belz... said:
Down to 77. What a joy ride.
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I have also noticed the downhill ride since the seizure of MtGox's dwolla account.

It holds memories of the time in 2011 when the value of bitcoin plummeted and stayed low for quite a while but not enough time has elapsed for me to infer that history is repeating itself.

Fascinating study.
 
jhunter1163 said:
This can't be good for BTC. Silk Road shut down, owner linked to murder-for-hire-plot.

http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_...own-owner-linked-to-murder-for-hire-plot?lite

ETA: For the record, BTC is at 114.6 as I write, 3:26 pm Wednesday 10/2. We'll see where it goes.
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Bloomberg has a very good analysis with links to previous very good analyses:

http://go.bloomberg.com/market-now/2013/10/02/if-this-isnt-the-end-of-bitcoin-what-is/

As always, the question is what really drives the price or market value of this thing? I continue to believe it's the equivalent of a boutique stock with some inherent underlying value that is almost impossible to discern due to all the haywire fluctuation. And the occasional murder-for-hire plot.

The essential issue, though, is the alleged anonymity of its users. The Forbes analysis and the FBI-instigated charges suggest it is not anonymous at all and that it's as simple to de-mystify as creating mock-up seller accounts to attract unsuspecting buyers.
 
jhunter1163 said:
Down to 103.2 in just over three hours. I guess knowing that you're not nearly as anonymous as you might have believed has a chilling effect on Bitcoin trade.
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I'm no fan of Bitcoin, but reading the complaint, it doesn't seem like that was how they got to the guy--rather, he was pretty stupid and posted his gmail address openly in an easily-found forum. So I don't think he was found via a flaw in the Bitcoin system.

There's obviously a market reaction to the whole thing, but maybe it's overdone.
 
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jhunter1163 said:
This can't be good for BTC. Silk Road shut down, owner linked to murder-for-hire-plot.
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Silk Road has been in the news for a while now. It was only a matter of time before the authorities got to them. If history is any guide, the contraband sites will only get cleverer as will the authorities that go after them.

JREF readers will know that bitcoin is not nearly as anonymous as the moralists would have us believe - especially when it comes to buying or selling them. Of course, better concealing techniques will arise and the authorities will go after that too.
 
psionl0 said:
Silk Road has been in the news for a while now. It was only a matter of time before the authorities got to them. If history is any guide, the contraband sites will only get cleverer as will the authorities that go after them.

JREF readers will know that bitcoin is not nearly as anonymous as the moralists would have us believe - especially when it comes to buying or selling them. Of course, better concealing techniques will arise and the authorities will go after that too.
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It certainly is the make-work project of the 21st Century.
 
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