Continuation Part 5: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Bill Williams]

Next time I'll post a video

Ok, I chuckled, but only a little bit.

 

[Dan O.]

Sound travels from behind the farmhouse far below where the dogs are kept There is nothing to suggest a loud scream would not heard. We have 3 witnesses who heard it who faced the open sloping hill at around the same time. I have zero doubt based on what they said and what I know that it happened. Add to that the very probable scenario that the victim would scream. Amanda heard a scream , she didn't say screaming .. Up thread there was a suggestion that Nara kept her window closed. Nick Pisa , 2009 article Nara 'I looked out the window but didn't see anything. Then a few minutes later I heard running on the metal staircase..".

Where does Amanda say she heard a scream? Are you looking at those documents that the ISC ruled could not be used? In her testimony, even in her imaginings of what could have happened she is saying that she didn't hear a scream.

Rudy is still the best source for there being a scream and even he is contaminated by the early news reports (BBC Nov 7). This is while he is still free running around Germany, changing his name, seeking asylum. At least Rudy's declaration is somewhat timely.

Given the long delay in reporting the events, I conseder all the other reports of hearing a scream that night as false memories generated over time by imagining what they could have heard with a girl being murdered so close.

 

[Grinder]

Three people heard what was described as a harrowing scream. Maybe others were at the back of their apartment or had the TV on. Three people is a lot however.

Yet not one called the police when they heard it or came forward in a timely fashion. Not the next day or the day after that or even the week after that did they reveal this crucial evidence to the authorities.

Monacchia heard a couple arguing in Italian did either of the other two?

Where was Dramis and what and when did she hear?

Why doesn't it bother you that they now claim it was so horrific but didn't do anything for a year. I believe they were all found by the same reporter and at least Nara was on TV before talking to the PLE.

Why didn't Nara hear the couple talking. Who could have been arguing in Italian?

Doesn't it seem super strange that not one of them knew the exact time?

ETA - I should have looked this up first. Dramis didn't hear a scream at all even though she lives right next to Nara and hadn't been asleep long when she heard......running feet but not on metal stairs. Months later she remembers running most likely after Nara got on TV. Yes, Briars people like their fame even 15 minutes.

She had gone to bed about 23:30 pm and while half asleep had the feeling of hearing running footsteps under the window of her bedroom, which looks onto Via del Melo and which is on the opposite side to the car park (page 91).
She could not say precisely if they were from one person alone or from several people. She clarified that Mrs. Capezzali’s house is to the right in respect of hers and is therefore closer to the iron stairs of the S. Antonio car park. She did not remember hearing people running in the same way on other occasions like that night (page 99).

So Dramis pushes it towards 11:45 - had the feeling of hearing running footsteps - what does that even mean? Cristian couldn't testify because he wasn't sure it was Rudi but Dramis gets in with the feeling she heard something. Bizarre.

 

[Bill Williams]

Sound travels from behind the farmhouse far below where the dogs are kept There is nothing to suggest a loud scream would not heard. We have 3 witnesses who heard it who faced the open sloping hill at around the same time. I have zero doubt based on what they said and what I know that it happened. Add to that the very probable scenario that the victim would scream. Amanda heard a scream , she didn't say screaming .. Up thread there was a suggestion that Nara kept her window closed. Nick Pisa , 2009 article Nara 'I looked out the window but didn't see anything. Then a few minutes later I heard running on the metal staircase..".

Where does Amanda say she heard a scream? Are you looking at those documents that the ISC ruled could not be used? In her testimony, even in her imaginings of what could have happened she is saying that she didn't hear a scream.

Rudy is still the best source for there being a scream and even he is contaminated by the early news reports (BBC Nov 7). This is while he is still free running around Germany, changing his name, seeking asylum. At least Rudy's declaration is somewhat timely.

Given the long delay in reporting the events, I conseder all the other reports of hearing a scream that night as false memories generated over time by imagining what they could have heard with a girl being murdered so close.

Amanda said she was specifically asked if he heard a scream. She replied no. The retort was, How could you be in the cottage with Lumumba in Meredith's room and not hear her scream?

Amanda's reply was, that she supposed she must have had her hands over her ears.

The point being, that even in the false/compliant "confession" the one thing she most patently did not falsely/compliantly confess to was hearing a scream. This is sometimes pulled out as part of "all the lies Amanda told," when people say "of course she would have heard Meredith scream!" Pay attention people.... the false/compliant confession was planted by the PLE at interrogation, but they forgot to plant the details, like "Meredith must have been screaming."

Apologies for going rant-mode on this. It's just amazing at how these factoids migrate. (Briars.... chuckle alert! I'm not being serious, I am teasing when I say......) Perhaps Briars will post another photo of Italian landscape to clear up this point!

 

[Dan O.]

Honestly you are not interested in any kind of thoughtful example of sound with the same kind of windows and what can be heard. How would you explain hearing distant barking or cars with the shutters closed? The topography is similar to that of the cottage. There were three who heard it. Your comments are slipping a somewhat bitter simplistic retorts Anglo. Maybe time for an Italian holiday??

The prosecution could have proven that a scream could be heard by recreating a scream and recording the sound from behind Nara's closed double pane windows. But even that wouldn't prove that there was a scream or when it occured.

 

[RWVBWL]

Do your own test...

Not weird. The cottage location is down the road and around a bend far enough away from the court. Tall buildings line the road down to the cottage gate. A busy intersection with stop lights next to the bench could have masked the sound. At least 5 car lanes funnel into that intersection. Nothing stands in front of the homes overlooking the valley and the cottage.There is a lower parking lot but the sounds from the cottage carry up to the witnesses homes. Screams that woke them were from Meredith. Windows would not block yelling or screaming echoing from the valley.There was no other place for the sounds to be coming from. After Nara heard the scream she listened and head the running on the gravel on the cottage drive and the noise on metal steps close to her home.

Hi Briars,
Thanks for the response,
but I have to respectfully disagree...

House, apartments+flats have sound proofing,
they are not cheap hotels...


Come on, think outside the box,
do an experiment!

Ask a neighbor 100 or 200 or 500 feet/meters away from your house to listen if they can hear YOU scream at the top of your lungs at 9;30pm at night.

They will not hear you if all the doors+windows are closed!!!

There simply is no if,+,or but!

With ALL the doors+windows closed, even if Mez cupped her hands together and shouted "Help Me!", or "AHHHH!!!", nobody, I repeat nobody in another house, apartment, or flat 100, 200, or 500 ft. or meters away, with their own doors+windows closed on a chilly November night, would have heard her...
Don't believe me?
Go ahead and try it!!!
RW

 

[Grinder]

The prosecution could have proven that a scream could be heard by recreating a scream and recording the sound from behind Nara's closed double pane windows. But even that wouldn't prove that there was a scream or when it occured.

They should have had someone scream at the same time of year on a similar day and see if anybody would report it to the police.

They could have done such a test with recording equipment, measurement equipment and live people.

It couldn't prove that a scream occurred but it could prove that Nara couldn't have heard one or what conditions would be necessary.

Funny over on the other side someone speculated that it couldn't have been done by Rudi alone because he would need a hand to stop Meredith from screaming - guess they missed the memo.

 

[RWVBWL]

Hiya Briars,
I'm getting caught up+ noticed that you posted some pix, cool!
What a nice place to visit,
I hope that you truly enjoy your vacation!!!

Anyways,
I am sitting in a park on a chilly, foggy afternoon in Santa Monica, California right now,
a 2 lane highway separates me from the 3 level apartment complex across the street.

There is NO WAY that if I yelled at THE TOP OF MY LUNGS,
which if I was held by 3 people, would have been almost impossible to do,
that ANYONE across the street could hear me.

And the wind is blowing towards the apartment+ with the fog layer kinda low,
sound does indeed travel...

Can you please,
simply do some tests???

Ask someone if they can hear you from 100, 200, or 500 ft. or meters away while you are inside your room,
and shout "Help Me!" or "AHHHH!" at the top of your lungs in a place with all the doors+windows closed.

For I ask,
wouldn't you hate to imprison someone for a crime that they did not commit?

 

[Bill Williams]

Hiya Briars,

Can you please,
simply do some tests???

Why? He's already posted pictures of the Italian landscape? Is this not all the thoughtful testing you need? Wow. You're cynical!

Ask someone if they can hear you from 100, 200, or 500 ft. or meters away while you are inside your room,
and shout "Help Me!" or "AHHHH!" at the top of your lungs in a place with all the doors+windows closed.

For I ask,
wouldn't you hate to imprison someone for a crime that they did not commit?

You have this backwards, RWVBWL...... Briars considers them guilty, and is just now almost 6 years later, considering the evidence that somehow supports this premise.... er, conclusion.

 

[Bill Williams]

From a posting which discusses Nara's trial testimony. It seems that Nara, like Curatolo, had trouble identifying the day she even heard "the scream". (Thank you to Francisco.....)

Question: “Signora, the night of the scream (…), you are sure that scream was between 1 and 2 in November?”
Response: “The night of Halloween!”
Question: “Did you mean to say that the scream is on the night of Halloween, the night between 31 and 1? It is the night of Halloween or the night between 1 and 2?”
Response: “I don’t remember that, those hours, those things, I don’t remember any more. I don’t remember any more.”​

Fransico also notes - Nara testified “That morning, while I was cleaning the house, I heard the boys come running. Signora, Signora, they have killed a girl in that cottage. (…) Then I went out to get some bread. (...) It was 11 a.m. and I stopped off at the newsstand and there already headlines like this, that spoke of this girl.” Of course, this is problematic for Nara and the prosecution because as we all know, Meredith's body was not discovered until 13:30. Ooops.

The full 48 Hours show does say that a loud scream from Meredith's room could be heard at Nara's, even with the window closed, buy was faint. This is the same show with Paul what's-his-name..... but also maintains that Nara was never questioned by police.

The defence requested an audio test be performed to prove a scream from within Meredith's room could be heard in Nara's room but Massei denied the request. I'm not sure Massei ever explained that decision.

I will scour Massei......

 

[RWVBWL]

Please do your own tests!!!

Why? He's already posted pictures of the Italian landscape? Is this not all the thoughtful testing you need? Wow. You're cynical!

You have this backwards, RWVBWL...... Briars considers them guilty, and is just now almost 6 years later, considering the evidence that somehow supports this premise.... er, conclusion.

Hiya Bill Williams,
Look, I used to think that Raff+Amanda were guilty too,
until the cops in Perugia just substituted 1 black guy for another without changing the script!

That was weird,
what the heck!!!

Briars,
and anyone else, can be shown the real truth,
let's help 'em!


As I mentioned a few minutes ago,
I am in Santa Monica on a foggy afternoon in Southern California.

I just asked a gal, who was parked next to me,
to help me in a simple experiment.
I noted the apartment complex across the street,
told this gal how I did not think that ANYONE, with their doors+windows closed,
could have heard a loud scream coming from another house, apartment, or flat from 100, 200, or 500 ft. or meters away,
with its own windows+doors closed.

It seemed she did not believe me.


After discussing+debating my theory,
she agreed to try to listen for my scream.

I am enclosing a pic to help ya'all visualize what I just did.
The pic below, which I photographed a few years ago while sitting in a 10 plastic kayak here in the waters off Los Angeles,
shows an approx. 10 foot Great White Shark breaching near me, with the Pacific Coast Highway, aka PCH in the background.
I cropped the photo to blow it up+show you my red Dodge pick-up truck on the far right,
parked next to the other cars, kinda cool...



In my test just a moment ago, on a foggy, low cloud cover kinda evening, I entered my Dodge pic-up truck, sat in my drivers seat, pretended I had broke free from 3 people holding me, cupped my hands together AND AS LOUD AS I COULD, I yelled "HELP ME!"
The woman,
sitting in her car parked right next to mine, barely 5 feet away.
heard my scream, but could not decipher that I said, "HELP ME!"
which I had yelled at the top of my lungs...

And my old Dodge pick-up truck does not have any kinda sound proof insulation.
Heck, I doubt the dude exiting the water on the shoreline even would have heard me yell...


In this surfers opinion,
There is NO WAY that old Nara heard Meredith Kercher scream!


If she heard something that night or the next,
it was something else, completly un-related to Miss Kercher having a knife brutaly shoved into her throat!


Don't believe me?
Go try your own test!!!
Thanks.

See ya,
RW

ETA:
PS-Just a FYI,
I support law enforcement,
heck I've been an police informant before here in Santa Monica...
And a bro who surfs, who is a Santa Monica Police Officer,
though not named in this article tht I link here:
http://www.mauinews.com/page/content.detail/id/571358
was recently bite by a shark whilest surfin' in Maui...
Glad Mike is ok...

 

[Bill Williams]

Can someone remind me why Nara Capezzali is still relevant as a "witness to a scream"?

See this newspaper piece from Associated Press, Marta Falconi March 27/2009:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/27/amanda-knox-trial-witness_n_179916.html

Despite reporting at the beginning.... "A prosecution witness testified Friday she heard a woman's scream that "made her skin crawl" on the night a British student was killed in the Italian university town of Perugia."

It then goes on to say:

The witness said later under cross-examination that she wasn't sure of the date of the events.

Apparently the "sex-game" was still in play then, even though Massei eventually ruled that there was no motive, really, that could be applied to Sollecito and Knox, aside from their brief, "choice for evil." However, back then the court heard evidence to buttress this claim because Sollecito, "was once caught with a porn movie." Once.

The no less that The Sun in the UK prints this piece on 21 May 2011, Bob Graham, who calls Prosecutor Mignini somewhat bizarre...

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3592844/THE-Suns-probe-into-Amanda-Knox-case-reveals-evidence-that-may-undermine-conviction.html

PROSECUTOR Giuliano Mignini has floated at least six theories for Meredith’s killing. They range from a satanic ritual and a drug-fuelled sex orgy to a drug-crazed rage and clumsy attempt to steal Meredith’s rent money. Each time Mignini’s claims have focused on Knox and Sollecito. But the 62-year-old prosecutor has failed to support his views with credible evidence.

During a lengthy interview in his Perugia office, The Sun asked him to explain why there was no Knox DNA in the small bedroom where Meredith was killed. He shrugged and produced his latest bizarre theory — that Knox wasn’t in the room at all, but orchestrated the killing from outside.

Mignini said: “Amanda might theoretically have instigated the murder while even staying in the other room.” Until now Mignini has been adamant Knox was the instigator and the most violent of those involved in the horrific killing.
At the end of our interview, Mignini smirked and asked that details of what he said “remain here” — in his office. (Emphasis not in original)

I bet he did!

Other news outlets report the same thing about Nara's March 2009 testimony. She can't really remember when she heard the scream... and Oct 31 was, lessee..... Hallowe'en. They don't scream or run around on Hallowe'en do they?

This is the case against Knox and Sollecito?

 

[Bill Williams]

Don't believe me?
Go try your own test!!!
Thanks.

See ya,
RW

OK - I did my test, using the foolproof Briar's Method Of Sound Detection™ I went outside and listened to women scream when they saw me. No one inside heard the screams.

Here's the pic.....

 

[JREF2010]

I'll guess, Nara was a flop-witness and is why Hellman didn't see a need to review her testimony. She simply didn't see anything, didn't know what date it was, and couldn't recall the time. What would be the point of bringing that witness back in?

The other lady heard a scream and had a rough idea of the time and if I recall correctly the third lady didn't hear a scream, but heard arguing and metal staircase noises. The metal staircase noises were very common, which makes sense.

The noise from the metal stairs was a common daily occurrence, and is only made magnificent by the prosecution/media, in attempt at creating an exciting Fictional Murder Scenario.

Person from Perugia said there is a amphitheater sound, but didn't believe Nara heard people walking on rocks from 70 meters away, through her double pane glass windows that were closed.

Sure , ok , Nara might have heard someone's TV show blaring loudly, who knows what she heard? who knows when she heard it? = Very Weak Witness.

And as I always wonder, where was Toto the Marvellous park dwellar, the Lucid Heroin addict with all this screaming and people walking so loudly on driveway rocks Nara can hear this through her windows?

What a bizarre bunch of witnesses...

 

[RWVBWL]

Keepin' an open mind...

So,
with the recent Italian Supreme Court ruling,
I am trying to keep an open mind...

Supposedly,
"Foxy Knoxy" invited her boyfriend of 7 days, Raff
+ a virtual stranger, The Guide-O, to join her in a sex-game gone wrong,
with Meredith Kercher as the object of desire.

I don't know about you ,
but when I view photographs of Meredith's bedroom,





I wonder why Amanda Knox did not leave any DNA, fingerprints, palmprints, shoeprints or footprints inside Meredith's bedroom.

Rudy Guede sure did!

Supposedly,
Meredith screamed really loud as she was slain.
I would imagine that Rudy+Raff, in the prosecutions theory, were restraining Mez's arms during this sex game gone wrong, right?

It seems like she had a few bruises on her:



Here's a link to some of Meredith's injuries before she died soooo horribly,
be warned, the pix are gnarly:
http://web.archive.org/web/20110504...logspot.com/2008/10/pointing-at-murderer.html


I need to know,
who was coverin' Meredith's mouth so she didn't scream?
If The Scream is to be believed,
that person totally screwed up...


But I gotsta say,
however this brutal murder went down,
I find it very odd that there is no proof, such as seen below,


that a clean-up or wipe-down happened in Meredith's bedroom.
Heck, I don't see a wiped smear anywhere in Mez's bedroom.

Do you?

How did "Foxy Knoxy" remove every single trace of her presence in Meredith's bedroom?

Weird...
RW


PS-Photo's are from The Old Perugia Shock.
Dig around, you too can open your mind to The Truth...
Peace...

 

[Antony]

deleted post

 

[anglolawyer]

With the blood curdling scream echoing around the valleys of Umbria, penetrating walls and closed windows, how come only three (was it three?) people heard it. Why not fifty? Did the police go house to house to identify other ear witnesses? They might have found one with a watch.

 

[RandyN]

Nice to see there is at least one honest Italian not afraid to state the facts and speak the truth.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...Court-violating-law-overturning-decision.html

Even Pisa kinda gets it.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/worl...ng-verdict-8676215.html#.Ucxeyel7PVg.facebook

 

[codyjuneau]

With the blood curdling scream echoing around the valleys of Umbria, penetrating walls and closed windows, how come only three (was it three?) people heard it. Why not fifty? Did the police go house to house to identify other ear witnesses? They might have found one with a watch.

.
Two claimed they heard a scream. One reported it a month later, but in court said it was Halloween day (not the day of the murder), the other reported it a year later and said it was preceded by a man and a woman shouting at each other in Italian with no discernable (non Italian) accent. Both reported times after 10 pm. Have to run, my computer keeps crashing.
.

 

[codyjuneau]

Nice to see there is at least one honest Italian not afraid to state the facts and speak the truth.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...Court-violating-law-overturning-decision.html

Even Pisa kinda gets it.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/worl...ng-verdict-8676215.html#.Ucxeyel7PVg.facebook

.
It seems to me the reason the Supreme Court is not supposed to rule on evidence, is because they did not sit in on the trial and consequently are not qualified to determine which evidence and testimony is reliable and which is not.
.