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The state of FL v. George Zimmerman

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First post here. From the Uk and have not really followed the case but chanced upon live streaming of trial. Think the woman giving evidence is trying a bit too hard to fit her assumptions to the questions being put by the defence (sp!) Think she would be more convincing if she agreed that she wasn't sure when challenged on facts she seems to slightly change her mind on, such as if the shots of the gun were fired whilst she was on the phone or whose voices she puts to which person. To find it hard to agree that a boy of seventeen might have a deep voice is a bit perverse. Not to say she isn't fundamentally correct (I don't know) but her bias is a bit obvious and annoying! Would be interesting to hear voices of the two people involved.
 
First post here. From the Uk and have not really followed the case but chanced upon live streaming of trial. Think the woman giving evidence is trying a bit too hard to fit her assumptions to the questions being put by the defence (sp!) Think she would be more convincing if she agreed that she wasn't sure when challenged on facts she seems to slightly change her mind on, such as if the shots of the gun were fired whilst she was on the phone or whose voices she puts to which person. To find it hard to agree that a boy of seventeen might have a deep voice is a bit perverse. Not to say she isn't fundamentally correct (I don't know) but her bias is a bit obvious and annoying! Would be interesting to hear voices of the two people involved.

Both voices are available on youtube if you wish to look for it.

Regarding her testimony, she also put the initial argument as happening over where the body ended up and not by the T. She said that it happened in between the first and second house, which incidentally conforms with what Selene Bahadoor said yesterday. If you're just starting to follow the case, this is important because the defendant claimed he was walking back to his truck when he was attacked and would have no good reason to be in between the houses at all. So that's two witnesses who contradict the defendant.
 
Both voices are available on youtube if you wish to look for it.

Regarding her testimony, she also put the initial argument as happening over where the body ended up and not by the T. She said that it happened in between the first and second house, which incidentally conforms with what Selene Bahadoor said yesterday. If you're just starting to follow the case, this is important because the defendant claimed he was walking back to his truck when he was attacked and would have no good reason to be in between the houses at all. So that's two witnesses who contradict the defendant.

Yes, I hasten to add my comment was just about the fifteen minutes or so I happened to watch. I didn't see the prosecution asking her questions. It was just a random thought about her bias (I don't mean it particularly pejoritively) being a bit obvious.
 
3 gunshots? Really? Luckily, according to Surdyka, those 3 fatal shots were recorded in her 911 call. She asserted even today that there were 3 shots.

BTW, if the first voice was the aggressive one as Surdyka asserted, then we can find out from the witness on the phone who the first voice belonged to. Does anyone know what she had to say about that? That should clear things up a bit.
 
This witness puts Zimmerman on top, hitting Martin, for at least part of the fight. She is basing this on body size after seeing both people on the news.
 
We're actually seeing good examples of how witness examination is going to work in this trial.

A witness testifies to something. The side that finds that testimony harmful to their case cross-examines, and casts doubt upon the testimony by pointing out how the witness contradicts themselves or changes their story.

This will be important to keep in mind when the witnesses who some seem to think support Zimmerman's version of events take the stand.
 
Seems to be a bit of evidence already presented that contradicts Zimmerman's story.

And yet we were assured none existed.

Now, all three witnesses put the start, middle, and end of the fight down by the flashlight and cell phone. None of them see anything or hear anything happening by the T.

ETA: I take that back, she heard something at the T, but then heard it down by the flashlight.
 
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Jeanee Manalo testified that she heard screaming noises that seemed to coming from the opposite side of the dog walk from her northeast corner unit. The sounds moved past her house and ended somewhere near the second unit on the west side dogwalk.

When she looked outside, she could see "shadows" and John Good (who she does not know) looking outside his home. Later, she was able to compare sizes and came to the conclusion that Zimmerman was on top. The photo of Martin she used for comparison was the head shot of Martin in the hoodie photo and the much-younger Martin from his football photo. She volunteers that she could be wrong about that inference, but that was the impression she formed some time after the event.

Lunch recessed during cross-examination.
 
All of these witnesses so far support GZ's account. Any of them who've weighed in with an OPINION that it was Trayvon on bottom can be dismissed as mistaken quite easily based on the ACTUAL sizes of the two individuals relative to one another on that night, and by comparing what they saw to what the closest witness, Witness 6 saw.

Isn't it interesting that the closer you get to the two individuals struggling, the more closely what you see lines up with what GZ describes?

It's painfully obvious that these other witnesses allowed the media coverage to impact who they thought was doing what to whom out there. They've also started to adopt elements of other witnesses' testimony and integrate them into their own, which is highly troubling. This is one of the many drawbacks to this much media sensationalism, and people descending on their neighborhood to try to talk to them. A lawyer affiliated with Crump ending up representing Austin Brown's mother, is one good example. Mary Cutcher holding press conferences alongside Crump and the Martin family, is hugely indicative of how irrevocably tainted this case is.

If you use logic and deductive reasoning you can cut right through all of the media sensationalism and race-baiting narrative surrounding this entire thing, and hone in on the key facts which are not as susceptible to those influences:

1.) Statements given immediately after the event before any taint could seep in
2.) The photos taken that night particularly showing injuries on one party, none on the other
3.) What the witness said in his excited utterances moments after the event
4.) The NEN call which took place before Zimmerman was in any legal peril, and which demonstrated he was not intoxicated, not hostile, and not behaving in any way that concerned the operator.

If you don't retain focus on the hard evidence, and grant preference to the earliest witness accounts, you're liable to get out into the weeds of "coons" and stuff like that. People on these boards should be keenly aware of the power of suggestion and imagination... Alan Reich should be the ultimate example of that, but Marcy Cutcher, the female witnesses on the stand today... etc should all be obviously suffering from the same thing.

Edited by LashL: 
Removed non-trial-related comment.
 
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I would just like to make note that one of the witnesses said the very same thing as Zimmerman. Given the weather, she thought it was weird to hear people outside.
 
After being shown pictures of a much younger Martin, she admitted that she now has no real idea which one was on top. She did the right thing here.
 
Wow. Ms. Jeantel was surprisingly effective and moving. She's obviously learning disabled, but she told exactly the same story as she did last year. And her emotions were obviously genuine. I think that Mr. O'Mara berates her at his peril.
 
Wow. Ms. Jeantel was surprisingly effective and moving. She's obviously learning disabled, but she told exactly the same story as she did last year. And her emotions were obviously genuine. I think that Mr. O'Mara berates her at his peril.

There were a lot of changes to her story, things that Trayvon said she never mentioned before (ironic that GZ was accused of angrily using a racial slur, and didn't... but Trayvon did, multiple times, if she's to be believed, and on that point I think she is telling the truth, surprisingly)

During cross you will see just how many changes have happened compared to her previous statements. West will highlight them quite well, or as well as he can with someone who is so hard to understand for most people.
 
There were a lot of changes to her story, things that Trayvon said she never mentioned before (ironic that GZ was accused of angrily using a racial slur, and didn't... but Trayvon did, multiple times, if she's to be believed, and on that point I think she is telling the truth, surprisingly)

During cross you will see just how many changes have happened compared to her previous statements. West will highlight them quite well, or as well as he can with someone who is so hard to understand for most people.

I think if he tries to beat up on a learning disabled young woman the jury will despise him for it. She was absolutely gripping. I'm very surprised at my reaction to what she said.

The most brutally honest witness so far.
 
I think if he tries to beat up on a learning disabled young woman the jury will despise him for it. She was absolutely gripping. I'm very surprised at my reaction to what she said.

The most brutally honest witness so far.

I'm very surprised at your reaction too. You're right about her intellect though, I wager Don West's IQ is double hers. So yes he must tread lightly.
 
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