General Holocaust Denial Discussion Part II

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Further to my last remarks, I find on further inquiry that Ms Sturdy Colls has now published an article that is available online.
Recent PhD Caroline Sturdy Colls has published the first article based on her archaeological research at Treblinka. The article, Holocaust Archaeology: Archaeological Approaches to Landscapes of Nazi Genocide and Persecution, is in the Journal of Conflict Archaeology (Vol 7, No. 2, 2012, 70-104) and is currently available free from the publisher here.

You may have to skip back and forth to get to the right download page.
I have commented on the content on CODOH and won't repeat my comments here unless requested to.
I already discussed that here. The question I posed of what she has published, was supposed to be a rhetorical question unless someone has anything she published of actual value on the subject, which seems not to be the case.
 
She lists the following publications on her website:

Books

Sturdy Colls, C. (In Prep.) Holocaust Archaeologies: Approaches and Future Directions. New York: Springer.

Hunter, J. Simpson, B. and Sturdy Colls, C. (In press). Forensic Approaches to Buried Remains. Wiley, London. (Due to be published in November 2013)

Sturdy Colls, C. (In Prep.) Holocaust Archaeology. [Expected to be published in 2013]

Sturdy Colls, C. (In Prep.) Finding Treblinka. Archaeological Investigations at Treblinka Extermination and Labour Camps [Expected to be published in 2014. In English and Polish]

If I were her though, I'd concentrate on one book at a time. Then she might get one of them finished. :)

Quite honestly, the sheer ignorance of academic publishing schedules involved in your post is truly remarkable.

Sturdy Colls' staff page is easy to parse. She completed a PhD only last year in 2012 - the date of its award - having worked on several projects on the way, including on Treblinka, which has led to several publications already - which would have been submitted some time back, the 2012 publications would have been sent in for peer review in late 2011 or early 2012. The two papers on Holocaust archaeology to appear in English are general overviews, whereas the paper in Polish is specific to Treblinka.

For 2013, there seems to be a co-authored book of an even more generic forensic archaeology focus in press, a book chapter on archaeology in general in press, and another book chapter on her project about a camp in Alderney in press, along with a translation of the 2012 Treblinka paper in Polish. In press means completed; the full manuscript submitted for editing. Another Treblinka paper is in press for a Polish collection; and one can then compare with the conference papers listed to work out that this conference paper was given in 2011.

As a recently appointed lecturer, Sturdy Colls is an early-career researcher and will need to submit one or at most two items - article or book - for the UK's Research Excellence Framework assessment exercise; she evidently will have a choice of about 7 items already under her belt, including one co-authored book.

There are evidently two more books on the way, one which would build on the already published 2 articles on Holocaust archaeologies in general and could draw on the work done in her fellowship in the Netherlands in the autumn 2012 term. I count 5 or 6 conference papers in this vein. The book is supposedly in prep and due at the end of 2013. Whether it appears before the end of this year remains to be seen; she does not need to publish it this year as she already has potential REF submissions. Career-wise she might be better off holding it back until 2014 and the next cycle, if it contains substantial amounts of new material.

Note that her bio states she has also conducted archaeological investigations at Semlin near Belgrade and has been advising on an archaeological project at Westerbork. This general book can also survey and synthesise the results of archaeological investigations of most of the KZs in Germany/Austria as well as the T4 euthanasia centres conducted in the past 10-15 years, as well as the results of archaeological investigations of Chelmno, Sobibor and Belzec.

Most of all, the general book can draw on her PhD thesis - thus this book is probably already substantially written.

The other book is evidently the expanded version of her already-published papers on Treblinka in particular and is slated to be published in Polish and English. Since no publisher is listed then the chances are good that it might be in conjunction with the Treblinka museum or another similar body in Poland, as they would have a strong interest in such an item. Previous publications of archaeological digs at Belzec have not run to vast lengths but have been heavily illustrated with maps, diagrams, schematics and photos - things that journals might limit more severely.

Overall, this is the research and publication profile of a very successful early career researcher, who will likely have two books and multiple articles/chapters out within 3 years of completing her doctorate. She has benefited from at least one term of research leave in autumn 2012, which will have helped immeasurably.

My personal experience with publishers is that they demand long lead times. I am currently working on a book which should be finished in the early autumn of this year and will then not appear until late 2014, as the publisher in question doesn't like putting things out in the summer. Technical lead times could be as low as 5-6 months, but the publishing schedules can lengthen that for commercial reasons, based on their experience and knowledge of the (academic) book market.

I have seen several Holocaust deniers whine how-come-her-work-isn't-out, ever since the first publicity for Sturdy Colls' work at Treblinka appeared in January 2012, even though she was already talking about it at academic conferences in 2011, an article appeared in Polish in 2012, an English translation is due this year and another article is due then too, and a book promised within two years of the first news. Even if it stretches to three years, so what?

Compare this with Holocaust denier Richard Krege, whose 'survey' of Treblinka in October 1999 has simply never appeared.
 
Quite honestly, the sheer ignorance of academic publishing schedules involved in your post is truly remarkable.
Some of us need 2 A1 articles to even be allowed to defend their PhD. This:

Sturdy Colls, C. 2012. 'Holocaust Archaeology: Archaeological Approaches to Landscapes of Nazi Genocide and Persecution', Journal of Conflict Archaeology 7(2), 71-105. Available from: http://maneypublishing.com/index.php/journals/jca/

Sturdy Colls, C. 2012. 'O tym, co minelo, lecz nie zostalo zapomniane. Badania archeologiczne na terenie bylego obozu zaglady w Treblince', Zaglada Zydow. Studia i Materialy 8 (in Polish), 77-112. For more information see: http://www.zagladazydow.org/?l=a&lang=pl

Does not look like that. The first paper looks like it comes straight out a "literature review" chapter of her PhD and seems to contain no apparent contribution of her own.

The two papers on Holocaust archaeology to appear in English are general overviews, whereas the paper in Polish is specific to Treblinka.
Anything to be in it that is not a general overview and contains some work of her own, you know, is it too much to ask to have a "materials and methods" and a "results" section?
 
the term 'holocost denier' must stem from the fact that that many people have denied the holocost happened, and thus the holocost likely never happened. No smoke without fire etc etc.
 
Some of us need 2 A1 articles to even be allowed to defend their PhD.

Yet this isn't a requirement in any English-speaking university system to my knowledge.

The British system pushes people very quickly through their doctorates - in any subject - within about 3-4 years, so publications become an issue when trying to complete a dissertation, either you take time out to submit articles, or have to wait to finish them off afterwards. In this case Sturdy Colls has clearly combined both approaches and will have up to 7 items out by the end of this year, not counting the two books which are on their way. The combination of projects is not that unusual.

This:

Sturdy Colls, C. 2012. 'Holocaust Archaeology: Archaeological Approaches to Landscapes of Nazi Genocide and Persecution', Journal of Conflict Archaeology 7(2), 71-105. Available from: http://maneypublishing.com/index.php/journals/jca/

Sturdy Colls, C. 2012. 'O tym, co minelo, lecz nie zostalo zapomniane. Badania archeologiczne na terenie bylego obozu zaglady w Treblince', Zaglada Zydow. Studia i Materialy 8 (in Polish), 77-112. For more information see: http://www.zagladazydow.org/?l=a&lang=pl

Does not look like that. The first paper looks like it comes straight out a "literature review" chapter of her PhD and seems to contain no apparent contribution of her own.

Anything to be in it that is not a general overview and contains some work of her own, you know, is it too much to ask to have a "materials and methods" and a "results" section?

The first article is indeed a general overview which filled a noticeable gap since there wasn't one in English hitherto. So it's indeed a bit much to expect a 30 page article to then squeeze in the apparatus of a research paper inside itself when the author is clearly well on the way to publishing such research papers on her particular projects separately.

This in turn explains the two separate book projects, one on the case study and one general overview. There is clearly a crying need to compare what has been happening in different countries with Holocaust-related archaeology, with what has been happening more generally in conflict archaeology of especially WWI, Stalinism and the Spanish Civil War, while also comparing this with well known longstanding issues such as Native American objections to American archaeologists and anthropologists digging up their ancestors' bones, as well as developments in modern forensic archaeology of war crimes post-Bosnia. Sturdy Colls' article does all of this quite succinctly. It also discusses a certain amount about how issues of burial were handled after the war, an area that deserves closer study in its own right. There is a vast amount of material on this in the archives and local newspapers from the postwar years.
 
the term 'holocost denier' must stem from the fact that that many people have denied the holocost happened, and thus the holocost likely never happened. No smoke without fire etc etc.

Are you arguing that because there is a term for those people who deny the Holocaust there must be quite a few people who deny the Holocaust and because quite a few people deny the Holocaust is likely to have never happened? I don't think that because there's a word phrase for a type of person that type of person must be numerous. Even if that were true, it does not follow that that type of person is correct.
 
the term 'holocost denier' must stem from the fact that that many people have denied the holocost happened, and thus the holocost likely never happened. No smoke without fire etc etc.

No one denies the Holocaust because it was a time frame when Europe's Jews were being confronted by Germany for their subversive Communist activities.

Holocaust revisionism concerns the impossibility of what the Jewish establishment says took place. The Jewish establishment portrays the Jewish people of Holocaust as lemmings. Holocaust revisionists understand that the Jewish people of that time were not lemmings.
 
the term 'holocost denier' must stem from the fact that that many people have denied the holocost happened, and thus the holocost likely never happened. No smoke without fire etc etc.

LOL! What impeccable "logic"! Of course there are a lot more people who support the accepted account of the Holocaust than who deny it and the ratio is even more lopsided when you look at those who have relevant expertise or experience.
 
No one denies the Holocaust because it was a time frame when Europe's Jews were being confronted by Germany for their subversive Communist activities.

Holocaust revisionism concerns the impossibility of what the Jewish establishment says took place. The Jewish establishment portrays the Jewish people of Holocaust as lemmings. Holocaust revisionists understand that the Jewish people of that time were not lemmings.

I had to read this twice to ensure it was serious so Mr Moore it was alright for Nazi germany to persecute and mass murder the ews of europe becasue a hand ful might have been communuists?

And Historical revisionism os just a fig leaf for exonerating the Nazis.
 
No one denies the Holocaust because it was a time frame when Europe's Jews were being confronted by Germany for their subversive Communist activities.

Holocaust revisionism concerns the impossibility of what the Jewish establishment says took place. The Jewish establishment portrays the Jewish people of Holocaust as lemmings. Holocaust revisionists understand that the Jewish people of that time were not lemmings.

So they weren't lemmings, but were all subversive communists?
 
No one denies the Holocaust because it was a time frame when Europe's Jews were being confronted by Germany for their subversive Communist activities.

Holocaust revisionism concerns the impossibility of what the Jewish establishment says took place. The Jewish establishment portrays the Jewish people of Holocaust as lemmings. Holocaust revisionists understand that the Jewish people of that time were not lemmings.

This is absurd and offensive even by the generally absurd and offensive standard set by your posts here. Jews were persecuted regardless of their political leanings. Can you point to any evidence most Jews in Nazi controlled territory were Communists?

And point us to to any "Jewish establishment" accounts which "portrays the Jewish people of Holocaust as lemmings". Are you aware of the various revolts? Most Shoah victims not know what awaited them, some did but there little they could do.

And what about the Roma, were they all "Commies" as well?

Do you think being part of a group that is considered "subversive" justifies persecution? Might not your beliefs be considered as such by many?
 
I had to read this twice to ensure it was serious so Mr Moore it was alright for Nazi germany to persecute and mass murder the ews of europe becasue a hand ful might have been communuists?

And Historical revisionism os just a fig leaf for exonerating the Nazis.

They didn't mass murder Jewish people PERIOD.


Holocaust revisionism concerns the impossibility of what the Jewish establishment says took place. The Jewish establishment portrays the Jewish people of Holocaust as lemmings. Holocaust revisionists understand that the Jewish people of that time were not lemmings.
 
This is absurd and offensive even by the generally absurd and offensive standard set by your posts here. Jews were persecuted regardless of their political leanings. Can you point to any evidence most Jews in Nazi controlled territory were Communists?

And point us to to any "Jewish establishment" accounts which "portrays the Jewish people of Holocaust as lemmings". Are you aware of the various revolts? Most Shoah victims not know what awaited them, some did but there little they could do.

And what about the Roma, were they all "Commies" as well?

Do you think being part of a group that is considered "subversive" justifies persecution? Might not your beliefs be considered as such by many?

Any account that says 1 million Jewish people were gassed in a first year, 1 million Jewish people were gassed in a second year, and 1 million Jewish people were gassed for a third year is saying that a couple million or more Jewish people were completely unaware of the million + Jewish people allegedly being gassed in the camps is portraying Jewish people as lemmings.



Do you think being part of a group that is considered "subversive" justifies persecution? Might not your beliefs be considered as such by many?
How does a discussion of what happened somehow become about what I think is justified?



Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
No one denies the Holocaust because it was a time frame when Europe's Jews were being confronted by Germany for their subversive Communist activities.

Holocaust revisionism concerns the impossibility of what the Jewish establishment says took place. The Jewish establishment portrays the Jewish people of Holocaust as lemmings. Holocaust revisionists understand that the Jewish people of that time were not lemmings.
 
CM how can a tiny minority of jewish people being communist condone the mass murder the Nazis carried out?

And where is your evidence that all subversive activity was being carried out by jewish people???

Also do you condone the murder of political subversives in general regardless of their religious affiliation.
 
CM there is stacks of hard evidence for the reality of the Holocaust that has been verified as opposed to the totally debunked deniers fake historical revisionism.
 
Any account that says 1 million Jewish people were gassed in a first year, 1 million Jewish people were gassed in a second year, and 1 million Jewish people were gassed for a third year is saying that a couple million or more Jewish people were completely unaware of the million + Jewish people allegedly being gassed in the camps is portraying Jewish people as lemmings.



Do you think being part of a group that is considered "subversive" justifies persecution? Might not your beliefs be considered as such by many?
How does a discussion of what happened somehow become about what I think is justified?



Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post

Are lemmings forced off of cliffs by people with guns?
 
Any account that says 1 million Jewish people were gassed in a first year, 1 million Jewish people were gassed in a second year, and 1 million Jewish people were gassed for a third year is saying that a couple million or more Jewish people were completely unaware of the million + Jewish people allegedly being gassed in the camps is portraying Jewish people as lemmings.

Huhh?? If they were unaware of the mass murder going on at the camps how was obeying the orders of soldiers pointing guns at them lemming like?



Do you think being part of a group that is considered "subversive" justifies persecution? Might not your beliefs be considered as such by many?

How does a discussion of what happened somehow become about what I think is justified?

From context and your previous posts that's obviously what you meant. And notably you failed to produce "any evidence most Jews in Nazi controlled territory were Communists."
 
Clayton Moore
No one denies the Holocaust because it was a time frame when Europe's Jews were being confronted by Germany for their subversive Communist activities.


From context and your previous posts that's obviously what you meant. And notably you failed to produce "any evidence most Jews in Nazi controlled territory were Communists."

Another lie. The Holohoax is nothing but lies and liars.


It's like what the Jewish people say between themselves "There's no business like Shoah business."

http://www.salon.com/2000/08/30/finkelstein_2/

http://rense.com/general5/holos.htm

http://theuglytruth.wordpress.com/2...ianity-and-the-real-reasons-for-irana-phobia/

No Business Like Shoah Business–The Golden Goose Of Holocau$tianity and The Real Reasons For Irana-phobia

http://mondoweiss.net/2012/08/exile-and-the-prophetic-shoah-business.html

Shoah made its debut just a few years after the Israeli bombing of Beirut. It was a Holocaust comeback, just as Holocaust remembrance was taking on water. And with a rebranding terminology, shoah, Hebrew for catastrophe, struck a nerve. Parts of the Jewish community were beginning to distance themselves from the Holocaust because it was being used as a blunt instrument of discipline against others and even against Jews who were stepping out of line. On the other side, the Jewish establishment perceived the Holocaust had gone universal because it was being used to name other catastrophes.

On the Jewish establishment front, the Holocaust becoming universal was a threat to the use of the Holocaust as a lever for Jewish power. For establishment types the Holocaust was being dumbed down and shared with other communities. The Holocaust was losing its distinctive identity. Better find a “Jewish only” term for the mass death of European Jews.

http://conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cfm?channelid=130&contentid=3415

"There is a Red Cross document on the Internet that estimates the total number of deaths of peoples from all groups in all camps at about 280,000. Now everyone has an agenda but the 6 million figures and this number are so ridiculously different I wonder where should one begin to look to find the truth about the 'holocaust'."
 
Clayton conspiracy sites and kook websites do not even begin to counter the actual real hard and verified evidence.

have you nothing better than these paper tigers?
 
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