Continuation Part 5: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Bill Williams]

At another forum I read and follow a thread on this subject occasionally, the majority of the posters find the notion that the window break in was not staged to be absolutely ludicrous.

I find this astounding and it really leaves me speechless as to what one can possibly say to someone who believes the window could have only been accessed from the outside via levitation and that the dent on the interior shutter is meaningless.

In many cases other cases I've followed, staged crime scenes are obvious because the window was broken from the inside causing the glass to land on the outside of the property in question. Yet, in this case, logic is turned on its head and apparently the "fact" that no glass was found on the outside now becomes evidence that it was staged?!?!?!?

You know that if lots of glass had been found on the outside, they would be using the fact that glass was found on the outside as proof of a staged break-in.

Its literally like Monty Pythons how to know if some one is a witch test.

No matter what the evidence shows, the conclusion is always guilt.

For the life of me, I can't understand their reasoning or the incessant need to find these two guilty.

I'm fine either way as I would just like to see justice served but based on sound logic and reliable evidence, but that makes me a shill, retard, etc in some PGP's eyes.

This case is truly confounding to me

Not to you.... you seem to have it figured out.

All I can do is repeat that I had a friend who worked in the local courthouse review Kermit's powerpoint on this subject, including Kermit's claim that the balcony was the more logical entry point.

Sherlock Holmes, Machiavelli, and Kermit have just demonstrated, acc. to my long lost friend, that they should keep their day jobs. They probably have no experience with breaking and entering.... which speaks well for their overall morality I suppose.

But the fellow said that even if it was a 97% chance of success at the balcony, and a 96% chance at Filomena's... that extra 1% is not worth the walk around the cottage.

On the basis of this and this alone, I would actually want Machiavelli, Sherlock, and Kermit as my neighbours. My house would be safe.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Machiavelli and Sherlock. Here's also pictures of how obscure Filomena's window is from the road.

Remember, Machiavelli's reasoning is based on which is more likely to be broken into.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-X8ULdvAEimQ/UUO2y6Hn1GI/AAAAAAAAAJQ/ppNoDNXvQJ0/s1600/Via+03.jpg

These pics show clearly where a burglar would go in the unlikely event of being spotted... just jump down...

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR_gawNRkwQfoX5QjsDG9P2-ZNhA351njE8RblqVwO3ASp5fWZTJKQhyIo

http://p4.focus.de/img/gen/x/0/HBx0TVTV_Pxgen_r_Ax354.jpg

This is the one that shows the street lamp which (perhaps!) illuminates the balcony.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8432/7529675394_81590bfa44_m.jpg

So go for it, SH and Mach. Take these pics to court....

For beginners, let's see some picture taken on Nov 1st, when the leaves are likely off the trees. Secondly, you see someone climbing up into Filomena's window, it's a burglary, you see someone climbing up to the balcony, no big deal really, once up there and it is way easier, you break the kitchen window, when there are no cars, the apartments across the street can not see that window, you climb in when no cars are coming again but on the other side, once you start climbing, you are exposed and there is no turning back.

 

[Machiavelli]

Why then didn't they stage the burglary using the balcony if it is completely obvious?

First, because (they thought) that would have made the burglary 'too' obvious, making the rest of the staging/justification pattern impossible: no shower story would be possible, no mop carrying story, no locked door would make sense.
Second, because in that event they would need to ransack Amanda's room, or Meredith's or the rest of the house, not just Filomena's. The purpose of breaking the window was to having the staging confined within a limited portion of the house, little work and little danger.
Third, because Filomena's window would be difficult as a point of entry, but it's easier and quicker to break. To break the balcony window you have to actually climb on the balcony and throw a rock from there, you can't so easilly pretend to do that.

Do you find it odd they would use the same MO as Rudi?

They didn't use the MO of Rudy (if you mean his modus operandi as an alleged burglar). That one was actually from a balcony.
They didn't use the same MO of Rudy also if you mean their movements on the scene: there are obviously two different modus operandi by different murderers in in th apartment. This is a standing out feature of that crime scene.

When do imagine they let themselves and Rudi in the cottage?

I think Knox and Guede were already there when Meredith arrived home. Knox possibly went away for an interval of a few minutes then came back, Sollecito came afterwards.

When do you think Meredith was attacked?

The killing is between 22.30 and 23:30.

Do you believe she made the calls after 9 pm?

I think yes but impossible to know with certainty.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

It has occurred to me that Filomena's room was chosen because she was due to return home the following day and would make the terrible discovery as planned. Laura and the boys were gone for the weekend.

Good point, but the main reason is because Rudi said he didn't break it and really, why would he lie about that.

 

[RWVBWL]

Rudy Guede, sleep issues?

No, my 'theory' is not based on my extensive clinical experience in sleep issues; it is based above all on what Amanda Knox wrote herself and on testimonies (including her own).
However I think I am, to some extent, an expert in sleep issues. Not because of professional studies, but first of all because I used to suffer of sleep issues. When you are a patient, you become an expert. I think I am an expert about sleep deprivation, it's 02.47 now here.
I'm not the only one with strange sleep patters in my familiy. I have a younger sister who had the most spectatular symptoms of sleep anomalies, sleepwalkings and parasomnia; she was an extremely intereting study case, she was observed by researchers from a sleep-study center.
My relatives are also all doctors; my mother used to be an anesthesiologist university professor, she worked at the Cleveland Clinics in the US; without having chosen so, I happen to know a lot about toxicology, drugs and sleep. I never went to a doctor except for sleep, always been healthy, but when I was a child I had more medicaments in my home than in Michael Jacskon's.
In my life, then working in theatre, I learnt about hypnosys techniques, trance, body language, things of the kind. I think I may tell your "sleep deprivation" from the color of your skin, face, eyes movements, fine hand movements and many other things.
<snip>.

All this talk about sleep issues,
which JREF member Machiavelli even states the he too suffered from,
reminded me that Rudy Guede himself,
remember him, the guy who left his DNA inside Meredith Kercher's dead body(!?!)
suffered from sleep issues too...


Here's a few quotes from a great book to read on this tragic murder case we discuss:

"Rudy started displaying very strange sleeping disorders. His eyes were normally droopy and during these attacks one couldn’t tell if he was awake or asleep.

"He told his friends that at home he had to hide his keys from himself because he tended to get up in this state and wander the streets, only to awaken miles from his home.

He also had periods of crawling on the floor and barking like a dog.

After his arrest, these behaviors were classified as psychogenic dissociative state or Fugue State, often associated with multiple personality disorder and nearly always the result of childhood sexual and physical abuse."

A link:
"The Known Facts About Rudy Guede"

http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474981070613



Hi Machiavelli,
You do know that Amanda Knox did not leave any finger prints, palm prints, shoe prints nor DNA inside Miss Meredith Kercher's bloody bedroom, don'tcha?

BUT Rudy Guede certainly did.

Would you care to comment on Rudy Guede' sleep issues also? I'd be curious to read what you, a fella with sleep issues too, might write to help shed some light on this matter...Thanks, RW

 

[Briars]

Remember the need to fetch a mop the next day and take another shower despite all the odd things? That was the farfetched pre planning. The pre dawn call to her mother that she forgot all about, to tell her what exactly nothing had happened? Yes she called Filomena but she never mentioned that she had already called Meredith. Get Filomena to the cottage and let her open or have the door opened. That's pretty well what happened , follow the script of the break-in please note the toilet contents before flushing and stand back when they make the discovery.

 

[Bill Williams]

Good point, but the main reason is because Rudi said he didn't break it and really, why would he lie about that.

Ah, er, you're kidding, right?

The obvious reason is that he gets a reduced sentence if Knox and Sollecito are charged with staging it rather than him doing it. But I'm sure he will do his full 30 years.....

 

[Machiavelli]

I am not disputing what you did or did not notice. But that you would pass this off as "expert" even at the lay level you claim is laughable. I'd advise you to drop the subject - there is no real expert alive who would draw the conclusions you claim with detailed clinical investigation. It makes you look confirmation biased in the extreme.

In lieu of withdrawing your ridiculous analysis I'd advise you just drop it.

Do you really think it's confirmation bias, or "laughable" to see that the hand written memoir is lucid, controlled and calculated?
Really you don't see that?

 

[MDDVS]

Good point, but the main reason is because Rudi said he didn't break it and really, why would he lie about that.

You're kidding right? Is story wouldn't make sense if he did. In his story he's not an intruder and admiting to being one makes him almost automatically guilty.

 

[Bill Williams]

Remember the need to fetch a mop the next day and take another shower despite all the odd things? That was the farfetched pre planning. The pre dawn call to her mother that she forgot all about, to tell her what exactly nothing had happened? Yes she called Filomena but she never mentioned that she had already called Meredith. Get Filomena to the cottage and let her open or have the door opened. That's pretty well what happened , follow the script of the break-in please note the toilet contents before flushing and stand back when they make the discovery.

What would be better would be a comprehensive theory which st least has some evidence applied to it, rather than guess work based on the assumption of guilt.

 

[Machiavelli]

Hi Machiavelli,
You do know that Amanda Knox did not leave any finger prints, palm prints, shoe prints nor DNA inside Miss Meredith Kercher's bloody bedroom, don'tcha?

BUT Rudy Guede certainly did.

Would you care to comment on Rudy Guede' sleep issues also? I'd be curious to read what you, a fella with sleep issues too, might write to help shed some light on this matter...Thanks, RW

I don't pick up your trite provocations.

You would probably have sleep issues if you were a kid during the Ivory Coast civil war.

 

[Briars]

Good point, but the main reason is because Rudi said he didn't break it and really, why would he lie about that.

I meant the other defendants chose that room because they wanted the discovery to be made the next day. Amanda had no reason to stay away from the cottage until all the others returned, the boys downstairs and Laura. Filomena was the logical one to help make the discovery and back up the break-in story.

 

[RWVBWL]

I don't pick up your trite provocations.

You would probably have sleep issues if you were a kid during the Ivory Coast civil war.

Well,
I don't have sleep issues...

But you did,
as did Rudy Guede...

I'm curious about the sleep issue subject though that you mentioned of
and that The Guede-o suffered from...

I'll check back l8r,
for I gotta run,
Kelly Slater's surfing in Bali right now:
http://www.oakleyprobali.com/live/

 

[Bill Williams]

Well,
I don't have sleep issues...

But you did,
as did Rudy Guede...

I'm curious about the sleep issue subject though that you mentioned of
and that The Guede-o suffered from...

I'll check back l8r,
for I gotta run,
Kelly Slater's surfing in Bali right now:
http://www.oakleyprobali.com/live/

Machiavelli is embarrassing himself. But the real issue is not him or you. Or me. If the new judge entertains such things, then will be an embarrassment for the court. I suppose it's now up to the defense to prove Mach's theory wrong!!!! That seems to be what the ISC assumes about all the other evidence.

It seems like all the prosecution needs do is declare it true snd that's enough.

 

[Dan O.]

For beginners, let's see some picture taken on Nov 1st, when the leaves are likely off the trees. Secondly, you see someone climbing up into Filomena's window, it's a burglary, you see someone climbing up to the balcony, no big deal really, once up there and it is way easier, you break the kitchen window ...

And what do you do if there is somebody inside? This is another one of those facts that you refuse to confront.


And speaking of confronting the facts, last time you were here, one of the facts you were having difficulty with was that the luminol was reacting less to the visible blood from the shoe print than it was to the invisible substance creation the presumed bare footprints. Have you tried yet to confront that one?

 

[Bill Williams]

BTW -Machiavelli should not be commenting on his sleep theory which he gleans, not from clinical evaluation, but from Knox's letters!!!!!!!! Oh and his theatre training.

But you also will not hear him comment on the photos which debunk his, "the balcony is concealed" theory. At least if he wishes to avoid further embarrassment. Then again he might want to explain what the cottage owner put bars on the window Guede broke in through!!!! That was probably paid for by the Masons!

 

[anglolawyer]

Hi Mach. Welcome back. I gather you have been holding forth on the SC motivation in another part of the forest. While we here await a competent translation, may I have your opinion as to whether the SC decision is free from the effects of any masonic conspiracy, racism, bribery or other vitiating circumstance? Provided you satisfactorily explain how you know, I am happy to accept your assurance on the matter.

In your absence I have been considering the implications of your statement that Amanda was strongly suspected but not a formal suspect when interrogated on the night of 5th-6th Nov and I have concluded that this concession affords a very strong basis for an appeal to the ECHR on the ground that her subsequent trial for calunnia was unfair (deprivation of legal counsel). Would you be willing to support such an appeal with advice, assistance and/or expert testimony? Setting our differences aside, I am sure we agree nothing is more important than maintaining the integrity of Italy's legal system. I see this as a way of joining forces in a common cause. What say you?

 

[GWCarver]

Good point, but the main reason is because Rudi said he didn't break it and really, why would he lie about that.

Speaking of Guede, now that the "sex game" is back in play, was he taking a dump during the time others were playing the game or was the dump part of the game? The PGP need to come up with a unified theory on this.

 

[Bill Williams]

Hi Mach. Welcome back. I gather you have been holding forth on the SC motivation in another part of the forest. While we here await a competent translation, may I have your opinion as to whether the SC decision is free from the effects of any masonic conspiracy, racism, bribery or other vitiating circumstance? Provided you satisfactorily explain how you know, I am happy to accept your assurance on the matter.

In your absence I have been considering the implications of your statement that Amanda was strongly suspected but not a formal suspect when interrogated on the night of 5th-6th Nov and I have concluded that this concession affords a very strong basis for an appeal to the ECHR on the ground that her subsequent trial for calunnia was unfair (deprivation of legal counsel). Would you be willing to support such an appeal with advice, assistance and/or expert testimony? Setting our differences aside, I am sure we agree nothing is more important than maintaining the integrity of Italy's legal system. I see this as a way of joining forces in a common cause. What say you?

Anglo.... I'm willing to join in.... and I've already conceded that I'd gladly have Machiavelli as a neighbour, on the grounds that we'd be completely safe from him as a potential burglar. He'd probably try to come in through our deck which is similarly exposed to the road.... and lit up to boot. I will refrain from telling him which window HAS been used here, lest he think I was making it up!

So if Machiavelli will join in to your very reasonable proposal, we could make it three for three.

 

[Bill Williams]

Good point, but the main reason is because Rudi said he didn't break it and really, why would he lie about that.

Speaking of Guede, now that the "sex game" is back in play, was he taking a dump during the time others were playing the game or was the dump part of the game? The PGP need to come up with a unified theory on this.

Why would they start now?

Some (and I should repeat, only some) PGP are taking great offence to the recent resurrection of the long since discarded sex-game-gone wrong theory... because of what it implies about Ms. Kercher.

I guess they were lucky none of them tried a comprehensive theory of the crime.... because for most it would have been back to the old drawing board... heck, even Mignini gave up on THAT theory when he read the tea leaves in court, and offered two more after that one was discarded.

If theories of the crime were girlfriends I wonder what it will be like for the Florence prosecutor having to go back to #2 of 4 girlfriends Mignini flirted with?