Looking for Skeptics

[asydhouse]

So you're saying that Satan is not actually all that bad? ←

Well when you think about the myth, it's Satan that objects to the psychotic nut job Jahweh's plans (eternity in hell for failing to hear about a human sacrifice that's meant to lock everyone into worshipping at the feet of the biggest ego in all of creation.... not to mention all the crap in the old testament regarding genocide of innocents in order to ensure that worship etc) so there was a war, because Jahweh couldn't handle the suggestion that maybe it was a bit OTT, and Satan and his host (1/3 of all the angels wasn't it?) lost the war, so they have been bad propaganda and slandered ever since for possibly being the original skeptics?

So, yeah, maybe Satan wasn't as bad as cracked up to be by the sick load of grim muppets that won.

Which is not to say I like the idea of Satanists.... I used to work in a book shop, and in the late 90s we used to sell a lot of books on satanism to young "rebellious" teenagers (no idea if that fad still persists)... once I casually remarked to one of them "So you're a xtian then?" and he looked confused and offended... so I explained that Satan was an invention of the xtians... I always wondered if that cracked his ideas a bit, and maybe let some light in for taking a look at the wider picture at some later date.

Can only hope, i'n'it!

 

[Maurice Ledifficile]

Lucifer was framed.

 

[asydhouse]

Lucifer was framed.

But the photo was out of focus! boom boom tish

And by cosmic synchronicity, that post gives Maurice and I the same number of posts!

 

[John Jones]

As I have been very busy with other things during much of the thread I may have missed it ... where did she self-promote a service for remuneration?

Pay attention all the time!

You're supposed to have someone hold your hand maybe?

 

[jhunter1163]

Folks, let's do get back to the topic, shall we? Thanks.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: jhunter1163

 

[SezMe]

Good idea. The thread is entitled "Looking for Skeptics". Clearly flaccon came to the right place. She found lots of them. Sadly, none of them found her to be credible. She (apparently) has decamped from that collection of skeptics.

Now what?

 

[laca]

Now we derail into discussing the fallacy known as No True Skeptic!

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Good idea. The thread is entitled "Looking for Skeptics". Clearly flaccon came to the right place. She found lots of them. Sadly, none of them found her to be credible. She (apparently) has decamped from that collection of skeptics.

Now what?

Patience. I fully expect flaccon will reappear eventually, and pick up from where she left off as if she'd never been away.

 

[jsfisher]

Let us remember that not every true believer comes here impervious to reason. There are well-known examples amongst us of individuals who have reversed positions as a direct result of what was discussed and learned in these forums. Flaccon has allowed us to challenge her assumptions (helped us, actually), and her belief system has been a little shaken as a result. We all get some credit for that.

She may return more resolute than ever in the truth of her position, or she may begin to see the world more as most of us here do. Time will tell. If and when she returns we can either cheer at the insight she would have acquired or we can provide additional challenges to the spirit origin of the voices she hears.

I'm flexible.

 

[Foolmewunz]

Let us remember that not every true believer comes here impervious to reason. There are well-known examples amongst us of individuals who have reversed positions as a direct result of what was discussed and learned in these forums. Flaccon has allowed us to challenge her assumptions (helped us, actually), and her belief system has been a little shaken as a result. We all get some credit for that.

She may return more resolute than ever in the truth of her position, or she may begin to see the world more as most of us here do. Time will tell. If and when she returns we can either cheer at the insight she would have acquired or we can provide additional challenges to the spirit origin of the voices she hears.

I'm flexible.

I am not being in the least facetious (note to self: if you have to preface many posts with a statement like that, maybe you want to look at your posting style), but could you point out where you see that her beliefs were shaken. I may be dealing with my own subjective memory but all I see is further resolve.

 

[Stray Cat]

I am not being in the least facetious (note to self: if you have to preface many posts with a statement like that, maybe you want to look at your posting style), but could you point out where you see that her beliefs were shaken. I may be dealing with my own subjective memory but all I see is further resolve.

The two slight signs are that:
1. She took the website down
2. She stopped posting

Now the website may be a temporary take down in order to firm up her beliefs and she'll wait until she thinks we've stopped checking it before she reinstates it, or it could have been because when faced with real objective testing, she realised that the case was not as "guaranteed" as she claimed.

The stopping posting could be because she was lining up for simply moving on as if none of this happened and she could go somewhere else and make the exact same claims to a fresh audience and using classic confirmation bias, forget all the 'tests', challenges and people not hearing her voices.
Or it could be so that she could come to terms with the possibility that she was wrong about the voices.

I hope that flaccon realises that most (if not all) the people were concerned about her and were only trying to help her to come to terms with reality.
Knowing that the only way to move along in the physical world is to make decisions based upon objective reality and playing the cards that are actually in front of you instead of the hand you'd prefer to be dealt.

 

[Maurice Ledifficile]

Since the site is about a month old altogether, we may have nipped a scam in the bud.

If Flaccon were to start looking at this more objectively, it would certainly take time to come to terms with this new reality. I will contend that most deeply involved woo believers have friends involved, or an entire community, so a change of heart can be quite taxing.

I am hopelessly optimistic, but time is an important factor here.

 

[jsfisher]

I am not being in the least facetious (note to self: if you have to preface many posts with a statement like that, maybe you want to look at your posting style), but could you point out where you see that her beliefs were shaken. I may be dealing with my own subjective memory but all I see is further resolve.

(I wouldn't have taken your question as facetious. Well, maybe just a little.... )

This is more of a collective sense than something specific I can point to. It may well be, too, me just projecting. Still, my sense comes from her initial claims versus what they evolved into. I recall (perhaps faultily) her admitting once or twice that what she had assumed didn't agree with the result when she actually tried it.

A glimmer of hope, but perhaps more my invention than real.

 

[bluesjnr]

Since the site is about a month old altogether, we may have nipped a scam in the bud... snip

Really? I very much doubt there was ever a scam to contend with, clearly your mileage must vary.

 

[Maurice Ledifficile]

Really? I very much doubt there was ever a scam to contend with, clearly your mileage must vary.

A bit of a strong statement, I admit. But I can see the budding scam.

Say she gets help cleaning her website and making it look more appealing, I can see her getting a number of regular sitters she can read to with her EVP.

Add a few broken hearts who just lost a loved one and become addicted to the "contacts", and you have another full blown scam out there.

I do know the site is no threat, but if we can discourage a few paranormal enthusiasts before they "get the ball rolling", especially those who clearly offer contact with the dead, I'd consider each a win for the good guys.

 

[SezMe]

A Randi associate blogs about the very phenomenon at the core of this thread.

 

[Slowvehicle]

I am not being in the least facetious (note to self: if you have to preface many posts with a statement like that, maybe you want to look at your posting style), but could you point out where you see that her beliefs were shaken. I may be dealing with my own subjective memory but all I see is further resolve.

Don't you do it...one does not simply mess with a classic style...

 

[trustbutverify]

It seems strange to me... the OP's claim that the "spirits" are so determined to establish contact with the living world that she is compelled to rent a hall and play their "voices" for crowds of spectators; yet they are offended by any proposed test designed to objectively demonstrate the very communication they so desperately wish to establish.

 

[pakeha]

A Randi associate blogs about the very phenomenon at the core of this thread.

A fascinating case, to be sure.
I hope flaccon or family members will take into consideration there are possible health concerns here and arrange for a proper diagnosis of the lady's symptoms.

 

[Daylightstar]

A Randi associate blogs about the very phenomenon at the core of this thread.

A fascinating case, to be sure.
I hope flaccon or family members will take into consideration there are possible health concerns here and arrange for a proper diagnosis of the lady's symptoms.

It seems to me completely different phenomena, the 'voices' in both situations have a different source, different onset mechanism, different manifestation.
I suspect none of flaccon's family (including flaccon) will be concerned about this in any way whatsoever.