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The "What should replace religion?" question

SlackerBabbath said:
Agreed.

Religion basicaly says that one should act a certain way because a particular deity wants you to and will punish you if you don't.

The ethical standpoint of morality basicaly says that one should avoid causing suffering to others. There are several reasons for this, one is remorse, causing the suffering of others can lead you to experience uncomfortable emotional responses. Another is that of revenge/reciprocation, if you cause another to suffer, he/she, or others, may in turn wish to cause you to suffer.

Interestingly, one thing that is almost universal in religion is the 'Golden Rule', which is based upon reciprocation and in it's basic form states that you should treat others as you wish to be treated yourself.

Ancient Egyptian religion.
"Now this is the command: Do to the doer to cause that he do thus to you." (From the story of 'The Eloquent Peasant', estimated time of writing 2040–1650 BC)

Hinduism
"Let no man do to another that which would be repugnant to himself." (Mahabharata, bk. 5, ch. 49, v. 57. estimated writing 1400 BC)

Judaism
"Love your neighbor as yourself" (Torah, Leviticus 19:18. estimated writing 1240 BC)

Confucianism
"Do not impose on others what you do not desire others to impose upon you." (Analects XV.24. estimated writing 500 BC)

Buddhism
"Putting oneself in the place of another, one should not kill nor cause another to kill." (Dhammapada 10. estimated writing 480 BC)

Christianity
"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them" (Matthew 7:12. estimated writing 30 AD)

Islam
"That which you want for yourself, seek for mankind." (Sukhanan-i-Muhammad, 63. estimated writing 630 AD)

Bahá'í Faith
"And if thine eyes be turned towards justice, choose thou for thy neighbour that which thou choosest for thyself." (The Hidden Words of Bahá'u'lláh – Part II, 19th century)

The Golden Rule is one thing that religion got right. It's a formula for universal peace that's elegant in it's simplicity, if everyone followed it, there would be no crime, no abuse and no wars, but one doesn't need religion in order to learn this very simple lesson. Many ancient philosophers came to exactly the same conclusion without turning to religion.

"Do not do to your neighbor what you would take ill from him." – Pittacus
"Avoid doing what you would blame others for doing." – Thales
"What you do not want to happen to you, do not do it yourself either. " – Sextus the Pythagorean
"Do not do to others what would anger you if done to you by others." – Isocrates
"Expect from others what you did to them" - Seneca.
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That's a great list, it's such a shame that another thing all religions agree on is to disregard it.
 
PROBLEM: There's plenty of anecdotal, and even some neurological evidence that a strong belief system helps religious people deal with adversity. Do members of the world's third most popular faith -- that is, "no faith" -- seek comparable, secular comfort in times of hardship?
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Perhaps science can do the same.
 
That's a really interesting link, Acleron, thanks!

Looking back, I'd say that my trust in science as a method for avoiding self-deception has helped me cope when I've had episodes of pareidolia brought on by stress... when it would be easy to believe I was being haunted, I instead actively realised my trust in science to free me from the "obvious" supernatural conclusion that beckoned. And it has worked!
 
SlackerBabbath said:
Further to my earlier post, unfortunately, the Golden Rule also has a dark side too. The 'Eye for an Eye' principle is based upon it, (essentialy it's treating others with the same bad intent that they have treated you with) and as Mahatma Gandhi once said, "An eye for an eye leaves everybody blind."


Don't worry, I seriously doubt anyone here actualy has that power.
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Nor will anyone or group until atheism provides the coherency mechanism inherent in religions. Every man his own master is and will be a problem.

See Snowden revelations for a current example, Manning/Assange too. "I" "I" "I".
 
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I remember listening to a televised lecture by E.O.Wilson, who was talking about our responses to such things as ritual and ceremony. These things appear to be innate... Even very primitive people do such things.
Malfunctions of these brain areas result in conditions like obsessive/compulsive behavior.

One of the things I hear most often from previously-religious folks is..."I miss the ceremony."
Anthropologists have pointed out that things like major sports events have all the elements of a religious ceremony.... As well, big annual events like the 4th of July and New Year's Even have elements as well.
So, if you're going to replace religion, seems likely that you'll have to fulfill this rather basic and likely innate response in people.
 
AlBell said:
Nor will anyone or group until atheism provides the coherency mechanism inherent in religions. Every man his own master is and will be a problem.

See Snowden revelations for a current example, Manning/Assange too. "I" "I" "I".
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See I have a different take on those. If a governement require transparency from me in my private action, then that governement should be a glass house too.


Quid pro Quo.
 
Acleron said:
That's a great list, it's such a shame that another thing all religions agree on is to disregard it.
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Thanks for the nice sum up of Golden Rules.
I notice most say "do not do unto others what you would not have them do to you."
Christianity says "do unto others as you would have them do to you."
In other words, assume that everyone else thinks like you, give them something, and you might get something back.

I like G.B. Shaw's " Do not do unto others as you would have them do unto you. They may have different tastes."
We have had life long friends who were always bringing us hostess gifts to display on our walls or in our garden.

Jimmy Durante had a pretty good idea too. " Why the H--- doesn't everybody leave everybody else the H--- alone."
 
Bingo parlors, coffee chops, and bars should take care of the functions. Charities not depending on faith at all would become more popular.
 
Ex-Catholic priests could always turn to the old alt.binaries.youth-and-beauty group for their fix ...
 
What we see in Europe is a decline in organized religion accompanied by an increase in belief in lots of other woo. It doesn't seem to do much harm, but I'm not much satisfied with a culture that has less Christianity but more homeopathy.

Unless more is done to promote rational skepticism, the USA will also become a region of low religion, high belief in other woo.
 
AlBell said:
Nor will anyone or group until atheism provides the coherency mechanism inherent in religions. Every man his own master is and will be a problem.

See Snowden revelations for a current example, Manning/Assange too. "I" "I" "I".
Click to expand...



What a piece of amateur psychologist's simplistic and self-serving analysis that is!

Good luck in the stalinland world your masters are preparing for you!

:rolleyes:

Back on topic, the inculcation of secular self-responsibility for one's actions and their consequences in recognition of the interdependency of all members of society would be far more effective at creating a mature and healthy culture than the blind subservience to authority demanded by religion.
 
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AlBell said:
Nor will anyone or group until atheism provides the coherency mechanism inherent in religions. Every man his own master is and will be a problem.

See Snowden revelations for a current example, Manning/Assange too. "I" "I" "I".
Click to expand...

What could be more self-centered than many Abrahamic religious sects?

"God made me special, made a special place for me here, and later, up there."
 
Bikewer said:
I remember listening to a televised lecture by E.O.Wilson, who was talking about our responses to such things as ritual and ceremony. These things appear to be innate... Even very primitive people do such things.
Malfunctions of these brain areas result in conditions like obsessive/compulsive behavior.

One of the things I hear most often from previously-religious folks is..."I miss the ceremony."
Anthropologists have pointed out that things like major sports events have all the elements of a religious ceremony.... As well, big annual events like the 4th of July and New Year's Even have elements as well.
So, if you're going to replace religion, seems likely that you'll have to fulfill this rather basic and likely innate response in people.
Click to expand...

The remark of missing the ceremony is common, but in the UK and I presume other similar cultures, attendance at church ceremonies has dropped markedly. Perhaps it is not the ceremony but the interaction that is the attraction. People have found less regimented occasions for contact. If this is the case then atheists do not need to supply a replacement.
 
Mister Agenda said:
What we see in Europe is a decline in organized religion accompanied by an increase in belief in lots of other woo. It doesn't seem to do much harm, but I'm not much satisfied with a culture that has less Christianity but more homeopathy.

Unless more is done to promote rational skepticism, the USA will also become a region of low religion, high belief in other woo.
Click to expand...

The US is already a woo-filled place even with its religiousity.

But about Europe, you are right. Different countries have different histories (Russia is prety non-religious due to the Soviet heritage, but has plenty of doomsday cults), but Sweden is not secularized because our schools teach critical thinking and provide an outstanding science education (they don't - our education system in general is pretty crappy*). Sweden is low on traditional organized religion, but high on spiritual, deistic and/or folklorish beliefs.

*It has been getting worse during the recent decades. Recently the Royal Acaemy of Sciences spoke out saying something has to be done about it.
 
Art.


Both religion and the arts have endured for thousands of years because they organize cooperative behavior in humans, and are therefore advantageous. Certain religious organizations however teach us prejudice, bigotry, hatred, and division. Art by itself is a means by which people from very different backgrounds, having different points of view, can come together and share the deepest human experiences. Art and religion often overlap, and much great art has come out of religion, which is why I don't actually advocate replacing religion so much as pushing it more in the direction of creativity and inclusiveness.
 
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