Looking for Skeptics

[Maurice Ledifficile]

Hi Flaccon,


First I apologize for one of my posts. I had previously been careful to refer only to your commercial site as fraudulent, not you. I saw an opportunity for cheap laugh and took it. I take it back.


Here are my thoughts, for what it’s worth:

I don’t like the pareidolia explanation. To me preidolia is the man on the moon. It’s not a man. Pareidolia makes you recognize a man’s face in it. But it’s there. Everyone can clearly see the eyes and the nose, therefore there’s a man on the moon, even though it’s created by pareidolia.

Although people will see different bunnies in the clouds, most of the bunnies can be pointed out to other people, with varying success. In the case of your spirits, there is nothing that obvious. No one sees or hears what you see and hear. Your interpretation of images and sounds appear to me a lot more imaginative than it ought to be.

Perhaps you should take a little time to understand why that is. The spirit world can’t do this for you. Only you can. Good luck.


I am now making this post longer to apologize for its length.
☻☺☻

 

[Pup]

Yeah, this. The reason is that the spirits will not be heard by anyone but flaccon and her small circle, just like this frog: http://vimeo.com/46018110 will not sing for anyone except the man who finds him.

Excellent cartoon. Well worth watching. Pretty well sums it up.

 

[Ampulla of Vater]

One problem was that you said the spirits would not co-operate in a test. Also we never got as far as agreeing exactly how it would be done.

Go back and read through the test we proposed. It is not insulting at all and is designed to be fair to all parties. Then, and this is important, try it out with Kate or your friend.

If it doesn't work, feed back into the forum for advice about changing it. Be prepared however for the possibility that failure means that the spirits are not there in reality but only in your head.

If the test works for you then it should work every time. Get back to us and we will run a controlled test

I just want to thank you, Alderbank, for taking your time and energy to check this out for everyone who has been following this thread. Please thank your nephew too. It was very kind of you two to volunteer to be the eyes and ears (I guess mostly ears) for the rest of us.

 

[Cassidy]

Yes that is what the message said, they don't want card tricks.

I don't want to dirty my hands when I dig a garden, but it's necessary.

ETA. Ah yes, I went over it just the once. I do hear Alderbank, and I will save this file (There were a couple of records with your name on last night. I marked them "Alderbank" I did not retrieve them, but will save them. One always hears ones name, clearer than a strangers name.

 

[blue sock monkey]

Yes that is what the message said, they don't want card tricks.

I don't want to dirty my hands when I dig a garden, but it's necessary.

flaccon, a test with cards is not a trivial or playful trick; the people involved in such a test are not demeaning themselves or their own ideals. In fact, it's quite the opposite. Performing tests on claims is the way that skeptics show respect. If we did not feel respect, no one here would bother with trying to develop testing protocols nor assist in carrying them out.

I hope you will remain at the Forum to seriously and conscientiously work towards that goal; there are many people here willing to help.

 

[Maurice Ledifficile]

We both enjoyed every aspect of the evening, thanks. My nephew is 22, just completed his first degree and is turning out well. He is no stranger to critical thinking and logical argument. He is a regular poster on Reddit but after tonight I think we might see him contributing to JREF

For some reason, I pictured a teenager. Some stereotype I have for a nephew I suppose. I wish I could have been exposed to criticism of the paranormal at a younger age myself. Thanks again.

 

[Stray Cat]

Well it's good to see that this evenings events haven't dented flaccon's belief or made her re-think anything what-so-ever.

 

[Maurice Ledifficile]

Wait. Alderbank was mentioned by the spirits on two tracks last night. He drives across the country and back, and now you tell him... That is beyond strange.

 

[Cassidy]

flaccon, a test with cards is not a trivial or playful trick; the people involved in such a test are not demeaning themselves or their own ideals. In fact, it's quite the opposite. Performing tests on claims is the way that skeptics show respect. If we did not feel respect, no one here would bother with trying to develop testing protocols nor assist in carrying them out.

I hope you will remain at the Forum to seriously and conscientiously work towards that goal; there are many people here willing to help.

I really wasn't the one who referred to them as tricks. I love what I've discovered here. I liked the idea of testing until I heard that message, it knocked me a little. I know there is a personal edge to this, but I do understand needs must. Thank you, I hope to stay and sort it. Dr can't and Church wont.

 

[Cassidy]

Alderbank et' al, we (by the spirits suggestion) are working on just single words here, for the word-identification test. If your nephew could be present, that would be 4 participants comparing notes, and hearing from the same equipment it was recorded on. There is also something we could try regarding pre recorded messages that alter. I have your name, distant but clear on a recording dating back to Nov 2012. I am continuing to have your name repeated in many older recordings.

Let me know how this sounds.

 

[AdMan]

Alderbank et' al, we (by the spirits suggestion) are working on just single words here, for the word-identification test. If your nephew could be present, that would be 4 participants comparing notes, and hearing from the same equipment it was recorded on. There is also something we could try regarding pre recorded messages that alter. I have your name, distant but clear on a recording dating back to Nov 2012. I am continuing to have your name repeated in many older recordings.

Let me know how this sounds.

It sounds like you are hearing what you want to hear.

 

[Cassidy]

Wait. Alderbank was mentioned by the spirits on two tracks last night. He drives across the country and back, and now you tell him... That is beyond strange.

Maurice, it is not beyond strange. We spoke about that, if I was to say to Alderbank, "is this your name being mentioned" it is considered void. So I dismissed it. I am now gathering many recordings with ALDERBANK being spoken, including other single words.

 

[Cassidy]

It sounds like you are hearing what you want to hear.

No that's not right, they say a lot of things I don't like to hear.

 

[AdMan]

No that's not right, they say a lot of things I don't like to hear.

Such as?

It seems Alderbank and nephew don't think they are saying anything at all.

 

[Cassidy]

Well it's good to see that this evenings events haven't dented flaccon's belief or made her re-think anything what-so-ever.

I know my Fathers voice when I hear it (et' al)

 

[Stray Cat]

Alderbank et' al, we (by the spirits suggestion) are working on just single words here, for the word-identification test.

So we've now gone from unmistakeable full and clear sentences explaining the mysteries of life and the universe to single words.

Flaccon, can you not see why some people here are criticising the claims you make on your website?

What will it take for you to realise the voices you hear are in your imagination and that other people sometimes hear the same as you is because they too have imaginations?

What objective test can you do that will rule this possibility out?
Until you do, it is the most likely explanation.

 

[Maurice Ledifficile]

I know my Fathers voice when I hear it (et' al)

No.

 

[Stray Cat]

I know my Fathers voice when I hear it (et' al)

I sincerely believe you sincerely think you do.

It is the nature of this kind of thing that the person who is convinced isn't the best person to judge whether they have convinced themselves of the truth or some fantasy.

That is why objective testing is required.

 

[trustbutverify]

Yes that is what the message said, they don't want card tricks.

I don't want to dirty my hands when I dig a garden, but it's necessary.

Then why not just agree to a simple, effective, well-designed test that's capable of falsifying your hypothesis?

Isn't it better to know the truth, even if it's unpleasant?

 

[batpuncher]

The Bose loudspeakers have a bass reflex port on the back. flaccon listens to the speakers in an unusual way. She picks them up and applies the bass reflex ports to her ears. This acts rather like a bass boost.

I explained she can use Audacity to increase overall volume of tracks and to boost or attenuate frequencies. I showed her how to make a silence track.

Curiously, flaccon more than once referred to her recordings as EVP

As well as a bass boost there is air wooshing through, a bit like what happens with speech...