Looking for Skeptics

[Vortigern99]

It certainly sounds like audio pareidolia.

 

[SezMe]

Yeah, my Skype attempt didn't work either. Bummer.

 

[Alderbank]

(I will ignore the part about Tuesday, because while I'm fairly certain flaccon *suggested* that Tuesday was a good day, I'm not going to be bothered to search the previous pages for proof of that)

Flaccon, what did Alderbank hear, then?

When it started to look like Monday was no-go it was me who suggested Tuesday or Thursday. But in view of all the correspondence in this thread on Tuesday about 'tonight' I did not expect flaccon to be in any way surprised

 

[Orphia Nay]

Flaccon intends to go to the papers and hire a hall but she won't let you post her recordings?

Thanks very much for your report, Alderbank.

 

[Vortigern99]

From the Chapter 23 site:

Home/private group Demonstrations. We have a good and clear demonstration. Fully tested and is quite an eye opener. No props, no tricks. The spirits willingness to please, is a pleasure to work with. 100% trustable.

Demonstration includes

*Valuable information*
*Spiritual guidance/Cleansing/Healing*
*Guaranteed contact with the spirits every time *
* Messages*
* Explanations of mysteries *
* Demonstration of ability *
* Revealing Destiny *
* Book of Messages *
* Peace of Mind *

* Any messages received will be transferred to blank disc *

Price varies according to postcodes.​

Alderbank, according to his report, clearly did not receive the "guaranteed contact with the spirits". He received no "messages", certainly no "explanations of mysteries", no "revealing of destiny", no "book of messages" (which are distinct from mere "messages", evidently).

Flaccon, how do you respond? Your web site promises the above "guaranteed", but has yet to show evidence of delivering on those promises or guarantees.

Are you an intentional fraud or simply deluded?

 

[Cassidy]

(I will ignore the part about Tuesday, because while I'm fairly certain flaccon *suggested* that Tuesday was a good day, I'm not going to be bothered to search the previous pages for proof of that)

Flaccon, what did Alderbank hear, then?

Yes it was a free evening but a busy day, little time for computer.

I don't know what Alderbank will write up. I believe they heard the word evidence more clearly here. After taking it home and listening, it's not as clear. The nephew stated he'd heard two words of a short sentence.

To hear the quieter clearer words, one needs to use the hole to the back of the speaker, with ears full on. A frequency was mentioned, but I have tried this in Croydon, Notts, etc, same frequency, same voice recognition. Best to do I think, is purchase a new laptop and start from a non-frequency recording.

 

[SezMe]

I tried hard but I could not recognise any speech on any other tracks. flaccon accepted this without argument. She said she needs to listen over and over until she deciphers what the words are.

This irritates the hell out of me. Bullpocky. She has repeatedly said the voices are crystal clear. They are unmistakable. They talk in complete sentences as if you were in a conversation.

Now she needs to listen over and over again until she can make something up. As someone noted, if you listen to white noise long enough you can eventually find some "words".

I consider her claim to be rejected. I see no reason to try to find a testing protocol. From now on, like the astrology columns, this thread should be considered "for entertainment only".

 

[Vortigern99]

From http://www.chapter23.org/Spirits-in-the-Blood.html :

I was displaying classic signs of a Schizophrenic episode "Voices, scribbled words" and certainly "paranoia" Every now and then I'd cross out the name "Da Vinci" The 16th century Grand Master painter, known in the spirit~world as "The Great Da Vinci" The spirits admired him, but I couldn't see a connection with Da Vinci, so I paid little attention whenever his name was mentioned.​

 

[Stray Cat]

Questions, anyone?

So in your opinion is flaccon experiencing nothing more than audio pareidolia?

She says she would like better equipment to record on

flaccon, you realise that if you improve the recording signal, you will make the noise in which you hear the voices disappear?

In effect all you would need would be a reasonable quality USB microphone (they mostly come with free recording software) which you can buy for as little as £50. The 'fix' most likely being to not use 'auto level recording' that your present webcam application uses or the low quality internal mic, but instead to set the USB microphone level manually so a recording of silence comes out silent.

 

[IXP]

fShe said she needs to listen over and over until she deciphers what the words are.

So her experience is the same as mine. I wonder why she would not answer this question when asked twice. So much for clear and unmistakable.

IXP

 

[Cassidy]

This irritates the hell out of me. Bullpocky. She has repeatedly said the voices are crystal clear. They are unmistakable. They talk in complete sentences as if you were in a conversation.

Now she needs to listen over and over again until she can make something up. As someone noted, if you listen to white noise long enough you can eventually find some "words".

I consider her claim to be rejected. I see no reason to try to find a testing protocol. From now on, like the astrology columns, this thread should be considered "for entertainment only".

There is full sentence present. There are also quiet clear voices present. There is a loud unexplained? frequency on every recording.

 

[Stray Cat]

Another good question. Is there a government table available?

Yes, here they are sat at it.

 

[Vortigern99]

And from further down the same lengthy account:

The most important thing on my mind was this.. "Am I dealing with a bunch of religious spirits, talking of Jesus, with no real Jesus present, or am I really dealing with a bunch of spirits, and Jesus?" A valid enough question under the circumstances.​

Never mind the false dilemma.

ETA: Sorry, from http://www.chapter23.org/Spirits-in-the-Blood.html

 

[Vortigern99]

And

The intake of breath, the blood loss, the images, the "overnight" healing, the spirit with the velvet-lined voice who requests "Serve us wine for breakfast" and then there's the spirits constantly shouting "Revelations!" and telling me it's Jesus Christ.​

I'm not a psychiatrist, but it seems evident that this woman is either mentally ill or putting on a big "look at me!" show.

 

[Stray Cat]

... To hear the quieter clearer words, one needs to use the hole to the back of the speaker, with ears full on. A frequency was mentioned, but I have tried this in Croydon, Notts, etc, same frequency, same voice recognition. Best to do I think, is purchase a new laptop and start from a non-frequency recording.

I've just checked and my ears are full on, though I can't find the off switch for them so maybe I'm misunderstanding.

Explain what would a 'non-frequency recording' be?

Also are frequencies different in Croydon and Notts?

You realise that most of your posts don't make any sense?

 

[jsfisher]

flaccon,

I am sure you realize that most of us, here, do not have the same belief in spirits as you. Let me make that direct and personal. I do not believe in spirits, the afterlife, or any ability to communicated with the now-departed. Still, though, I hope you feel that I have tried to respect your beliefs, and worked with you fairly to find ways for you to demonstrate what you believe to be true.

If I have earned your trust, then I would like you to do something for me, and for you. I do not ask you to abandon your beliefs in favor of mine, I merely wish for you to consider some aspect of your beliefs. We have tried, you and I and others in this thread, to explore ways for the spirits to present themselves objectively and unambiguously.

We have not observed the spirits behaving as you have told us they behave.

So, here is what I ask you kindly do. Please, make a list of what you believed the spirits would and could do before you ever posted in this thread. Be honest with yourself, and try to be as complete as possible. Some of their abilities you documented on your web site; some you described here in earlier posts.

Once you have that list, make a note of each thing on the list that you now know needs to be modified. For example, you had said the spirits could see, but now you have learned the spirits can only see what you see. Make a note, too, of each thing on the list that you know know isn't true. Finally, make a note of each thing that may be true, but the spirits have been uncooperative.

When you are done, I would be truly interested in hearing your assessment of what you learned from that and what your list and notes tell you.

 

[Alderbank]

From the Chapter 23 site:

Home/private group Demonstrations. We have a good and clear demonstration. Fully tested and is quite an eye opener. No props, no tricks. The spirits willingness to please, is a pleasure to work with. 100% trustable.

Demonstration includes

*Valuable information*
*Spiritual guidance/Cleansing/Healing*
*Guaranteed contact with the spirits every time *
* Messages*
* Explanations of mysteries *
* Demonstration of ability *
* Revealing Destiny *
* Book of Messages *
* Peace of Mind *

* Any messages received will be transferred to blank disc *

Price varies according to postcodes.​

Alderbank, according to his report, clearly did not receive the "guaranteed contact with the spirits". He received no "messages", certainly no "explanations of mysteries", no "revealing of destiny", no "book of messages" (which are distinct from mere "messages", evidently).

Flaccon, how do you respond? Your web site promises the above "guaranteed", but has yet to show evidence of delivering on those promises or guarantees.

Are you an intentional fraud or simply deluded?

I did not ask for or receive a book of messages or revealing destiny but then I was not a paying customer so that might not be a fair comparison.

The words are not at all clear. flaccon has lots of these recordings. I asked to hear the clearest samples she had. She said your ears have to become attuned to the voices. I asked for the clearest speech suitable for a beginner listener. Neither I nor my nephew could make out any consonants, words or sentences. However we did not listen for any extended period of time, only about an hour.

No props, no tricks is accurate.

 

[Maurice Ledifficile]

And

The intake of breath, the blood loss, the images, the "overnight" healing, the spirit with the velvet-lined voice who requests "Serve us wine for breakfast" and then there's the spirits constantly shouting "Revelations!" and telling me it's Jesus Christ.​

I'm not a psychiatrist, but it seems evident that this woman is either mentally ill or putting on a big "look at me!" show.

A little bit from column A, a little bit from column B...

 

[Cassidy]

flaccon is a delightful lady and welcomed us to her home in a picture-book Cheshire village.

She played several files, carefully explaining what she hears on each one. On one file I heard what she explained is her father saying Evidence although to my ears it sounded like Embleton or Wimbledon.

I tried hard but I could not recognise any speech on any other tracks. flaccon accepted this without argument. She said she needs to listen over and over until she deciphers what the words are.

I thought the tracks all sounded similar. There was no white noise. The sound was like a ring modulator or band pass filter modulated at about 1.6 Hz. As the BPF swept through human voice formant frequencies there were brief snatches of what could be taken for vowels. I can produce similar sounds on a synth at home.

I have no idea how flacon creates these however. She has a mid-range Samsung 15.4" laptop with a pair of Bose companion 2 computer speakers. She says she makes recordings with the laptop's built-in microphone and integrated soundcard.

At my request flaccon copied several files onto a clean pen-drive I had brought. They sound the same on my equipment at home as they did on flaccon's computer and quite different from the files posted by Stray Cat. I asked permission to post these files but flaccon asked me not to do so.

flaccon hears sentences and recognises the speech cadences of her deceased father, her brother who is still living and others. My nephew who is interested in these phenomena went along with me. Neither of us could make out any words or sentences.

I asked if the spirits had left any messages for me or about me. They had not.

flaccon said the spirits want to be recognised so that they can tell their message to the world. I asked why then will they not take part in any demonstration that they exist? All flaccon could do was refer me to messages like We don't want card games.

To help them get the publicity they crave, flaccon says she intends to go to the papers and also to hire a hall to play her recordings to the public. She says she would like better equipment to record on. There are audio specialists on this forum - I told her to ask for specific advice in this thread.

That's about it. Sorry about Skype - it didn't seem appropriate. Also the playing cards stayed in my pocket.

Questions, anyone?

I did refer to that message that sounded like, "we don't do card games" it was actually my Fathers tone too. I should purchase a new laptop and remind myself what a silent recording sounds like. As this is the 2nd computer producing a strange frequency with voices that the family recognise, I really don't think it will remain a silent recording for long.

The content of the letter that the GP wrote "There are noises suggestive of words.." etc, means I still need to search an answer.

Thank u for your time on the matter, and please thank your nephew too. (Did he not say that he heard those 2 words? )

ETA. I was not aware you had brought cards? I would have tried it, I just wanted you to hear that message. I do not recall you asking if the spirits had left you messages, we did a 10 second recording together, and didn't listen in to it. Sorry Alderbank, I did not know you had cards in mind.

 

[Maurice Ledifficile]

I did refer to that message that sounded like, "we don't do card games" it was actually my Fathers tone too. I should purchase a new laptop and remind myself what a silent recording sounds like. As this is the 2nd computer producing a strange frequency with voices that the family recognise, I really don't think it will remain a silent recording for long.

The content of the letter that the GP wrote "There are noises suggestive of words.." etc, means I still need to search an answer.

Thank u for your time on the matter, and please thank your nephew too. (Did he not say that he heard those 2 words? )

I don't know how you can interpret the highlighted part other than with "pareidolia". "Noises suggestive of". That's it.

How can anyone possibly explain your hearing your brother's voice on recordings that weren't recorded, while he is alive and far away? Not that it would make much more sense if he weren't alive, but this is beyond woo. There isn't even a woo explanation for it, let alone a rational one. (Other than pareidolia, of course).

Surely you can see that your brother's spirit can't be trapped in your computer?