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Proof of Life After Death!!

Read it again.

This time more carefully.
In which post does the question asked get answered?

It's Ok saying "read the thread" and claiming that anyone who reads the thread and isn't convinced by the sloppy comments you make need to read it more carefully, but it doesn't actually answer the specific question asked.

Evasion is just one of the tools in the toolbox of the credulous.
 
Read it again.

This time more carefully.

How many times must a man read this thread

And say that he just doesn't see

And how many times will you dodge what I ask

And act like the problem is me.

The answer my friend is blowing in the wind

The answer is blowing in the wind

(apologies to B. Dylan)
 
I just googled John Edward and cows milk and didn't find very much but came up with this transcript.



I love the way the caller is trying to find out if her husband has crossed over but he just wants to tell her about cows. Link here.

ETA At least he is a bit more canny than Sylvia Browne and wont tell someone that a family member is dead when they can embarrassingly turn up alive some time in the future.




Robin I have changed my mine, This transcript clearly shows the depth of Johnny's specific knowledge, How could I have ever doubted him
 
Cold reading doesn't necessary involve any conscious trickery. I suspect many amateur psychics are unaware of what they are doing, and, like the people they are reading, only remember the hits. (There's a member of the forum who joined in order to take the MDC, because she was convinced she had psychic abilities. She completely changed her mind when she listened to the explanations she got here.)

I don't think it's possible for someone such as John Edward or Sylvia Browne to be still so naive.
Or that horrible woman from LongueIsland who's on TV. :nope: (By the way, what is it with female "readers" and stiletto fingernails? She's got a set almost as bad as Sylvia's.)


Robin1, what if some of the mentalists on the forum could do exactly what John Edward does, and video it so you could see them working? Some of them may already have videos, in fact. Would you then admit that JE is tricking you and everyone else?
 
[FONT=Verdana, serif]Let's see if [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, serif]Robin1's[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, serif] claim that “JE says the right ("STARTLINGLY SPECIFIC") thing DIRECTLY to the right people.” has any merit. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, serif]Transcribed form this video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qx0Jt2jnLOQ[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, serif]I don't have time to do the whole thing and I don't guarantee everything is transcribed perfectly but it should be good enough. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, serif]Skip intro . . .[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, serif]JE - “There's a younger male energy in this section that makes me feel like this would be son, nephew, grandson” - FAIL (not specific and not addressed to a particular person)[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, serif]JE – “There's a cancer connection that comes up here. Does that make sense?” FAIL (not specific and not addressed to a particular person)[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, serif]JE – “Where's Robert, Robbie, Rob. Where's the R?” FAIL (not specific and not addressed to a particular person. Two ladies in group of four hold their hand up so JE now knows there is at least an R connection with them.)[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, serif]JE – “Can I get that from you guys over her? The four of you altogether, or three of you. Okay , Robert?”. PASS (correct name)[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, serif]Lady - “My Father” FAIL ( not a son, nephew, grandson as first stated)[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, serif]JE (talking to Lady) - “Past?” [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, serif]Lady - “Yes” PASS (but that was a given)[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, serif]JE (talking to lady 1) - “Okay. Cancer?”[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, serif]Lady - “No” FAIL[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, serif]JE - “Where is the bone issue?” [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, serif]Lady - “There's two. My grandfather and his Mum” (points to Guy next to her) FAIL ( not a son, nephew, grandson as first stated)[/FONT]

Sorry for any errors but really had to rush this.
 
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[FONT=Verdana, serif]Let's see if [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, serif]Robin1's[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, serif] claim that “JE says the right ("STARTLINGLY SPECIFIC") thing DIRECTLY to the right people.” has any merit. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, serif]Transcribed form this video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qx0Jt2jnLOQ[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, serif]I don't have time to do the whole thing and I don't guarantee everything is transcribed perfectly but it should be good enough. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, serif]Skip intro . . .[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, serif]JE - “There's a younger male energy in this section that makes me feel like this would be son, nephew, grandson” - FAIL (not secific and not addressed to a particular person)[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, serif]JE – “There's a cancer connection that comes up here. Does that make sense?” FAIL (not secific and not addressed to a particular person)[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, serif]JE – “Where's Robert, Robbie, Rob. Where's the R?” FAIL (not secific and not addressed to a particular person. Two ladies in group of four hold their hand up so JE now knows there is at least an R connection with them.)[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, serif]JE – “Can I get that from you guys over her? The four of you altogether, or three of you. Okay , Robert?”. PASS (correct name)[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, serif]Lady - “My Father” FAIL ( not a son, nephew, grandson as first stated)[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, serif]JE (talking to Lady) - “Past?” [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, serif]Lady - “Yes” PASS (but that was a given)[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, serif]JE (talking to lady 1) - “Okay. Cancer?”[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, serif]Lady - “No” FAIL[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, serif]JE - “Where is the bone issue?” [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, serif]Lady - “There's two. My grandfather and his Mum” (points to Guy next to her) FAIL ( not a son, nephew, grandson as first stated)[/FONT]

Sorry for any errors but really had to rush this.

Your efforts are valiant but for not, She clearly has no interest in looking at John Edward in any kind of critical light.
 
Perhaps you could now find a post where he expressed that opinion in discussion with you instead of arguing with his "fellow sceptics". It is the off topic goading that I am opposed to. If he thinks JE is a fraud and you have not proved life after death why is this thread full of him arguing with those of the same opinion as him?

Perhaps we should get back on topic. After all you can't claim that I have been anything but polite to you. I am only interested in engaging in on topic conversation with you.

Some on topic questions. Do you still think that Michael Prescott is a credible source after someone linked to a rationalwiki article showing some of the wacky things he believes in?
Is it possible that JE's "hit" with the Valerie Harper connection was gained from means other than the paranormal as GeeMack has suggested?

These are just two points that people have made that you haven't discussed.

Also what do you think of my link showing someone asking JE if her husband was dead and him ignoring the question and talking about cows instead.

I predict though that I am not going to get straight answers. Lets see if I also have psychic abilities. :)
I'm gonna play devil's :) advocate.

Pretend my only response to those links is...Michael Prescott believes some wacky things and JE's readings stunk.

So what?

None of that explains how spot-on JE can be at other times, again and again.

When you successfully show me how JE achieves those startlingly specific, unique, personal, unknowable hits directed at specific people NOT thrown out to the entire audience....then I shall consider JE is a fraud.

And it is important to remember, Michael Prescott's article rings true to me because I lived it.

But, it is worth noting that even if JE is a fraud, I would still believe the dead can communicate with us...because it's happened to me personally...and repeatedly.

Time for another story? ;)
 
I'm gonna play devil's :) advocate.

Pretend my only response to those links is...Michael Prescott believes some wacky things and JE's readings stunk.

So what?

None of that explains how spot-on JE can be at other times, again and again.
When you successfully show me how JE achieves those startlingly specific, unique, personal, unknowable hits directed at specific people NOT thrown out to the entire audience....then I shall consider JE is a fraud.

And it is important to remember, Michael Prescott's article rings true to me because I lived it.

But, it is worth noting that even if JE is a fraud, I would still believe the dead can communicate with us...because it's happened to me personally...and repeatedly.

Time for another story? ;)

Broken record, You don't care for the explanation given to you.
 
But some lurkers that might have been blinded to belive her might "see the light".

"I am banging my head against this brick wall because some other brick wall might observe it and spontaneously crumble". :bwall
 
None of that explains how spot-on JE can be at other times, again and again.

No, you just refuse to read or entertain rational explanations in favor of your self conceived fantasy.

When you successfully show me how JE achieves those startlingly specific, unique, personal, unknowable hits directed at specific people NOT thrown out to the entire audience....then I shall consider JE is a fraud.

It already has been successfully shown to you. You just don't read.

But, it is worth noting that even if JE is a fraud, I would still believe the dead can communicate with us...because it's happened to me personally...and repeatedly.

No, it hasn't. You only believe that it has, because you mentally retrofitted the "details" to reinforce your need to believe.

Time for another story wall of retrofitted fantasy? ;)

FIFY
 
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Broken record, You don't care for the explanation given to you.

For me, the mere fact that JE can be observed 'cheating' (ie using cold & hot reading and other standard 'psychic' tricks) at times is enough to convince me that he has no extraordinary Ability X. Actually, that the history of similar claims all being demonstrably false positions me such that JE's claim (or a claim made on his behalf) elicits only a weary "Go on then, show me..."

Robin, on the other hand, is more ready to accept the possibility of Ability X. More ready than I and considerably more ready than those to whom certain positions are Articles of Faith. So ready, in fact, that she has accepted what she has seen and heard, at first hand, as evidence, even proof, of JE's claim.

The explanation given to her is not adequate. If she doesn't care for it, it's not her record that's broken, it's your gramophone that doesn't fit. A list of ways in which psychics and mediums fraudulently present their 'powers' is not a rebuttal of the evidence Robin has seen and heard. Even evidence of JE using those same techniques is not evidence that he uses them all the time, that everything he says is fraudulent. They may appear to be adequate evidence, if you already hold the position that he can't possibly possess Ability X, but it does your argument more harm than good to suggest to Robin that it is her fault that your argument is inadequately presented.

Standard Tiresome Disclaimer: None of this is support for Robin's position or for JE's claim. Feel free to throw stones anyway, it sorts the wheat from the chaff.

You would be better enabled to address Robin's specific evidence with specific counter-evidence if I'd been enabled to elicit more detail from Robin. In fact, as a matter of record, evincing the necessary sympathy to draw such information from Robin led to the mob turning their attention to me (this is some 20 pages ago), and I withdrew, leaving the field to a combative, entrenched dispute that amounted to little more than "You're wrong!", "No I'm not!", "Ohhhh yes you are!", "Ohhhh no I'm not".

Of course, that would only matter if there were ever any intent to honestly engage with Robin on the part of most posters, if they genuinely wished to change her mind. Rather, their intent (if we may assess the intent of intelligent people by reference to their chosen methods) is to demonstrate that she has not changed their minds. In this we may record great success. The Woo has not penetrated the Fortressum of Skepticism. But 60 pages in and at least one poster is reduced to claiming he isn't really trying to convince Robin, but rather some Straw Woo who he can pretend is observing from the sidelines and is magically more susceptible to his chosen weapons.

Seriously, Robin is a person, not an idea, however much the idea dominates the exchange. If you all you do is chant an unbending challenge to the idea you will not engage with the person and you will consequently not change the idea.
 
When you successfully show me how JE achieves those startlingly specific, unique, personal, unknowable hits directed at specific people NOT thrown out to the entire audience....then I shall consider JE is a fraud.
I accept your challenge, but I don't expect you will keep your end of the bargain. In my recent post where I transcribed some of a video clip JE apparently got two things right (forgetting what he got wrong) Here's how JE achieved those two “startlingly specific, unique, personal, unknowable hits directed at specific people” . . .

(1) Robert was Father's name.
Explanation – He didn’t say Robert was the Father's name, he asked if it was. It wasn’t a “hit” until it was confirmed. He already knew that the name started with an R so Robert was a likely guess that he got right. He already knew it was likely to be Robert when the ladies earlier rased their hands when he offered “Robert, Robbie, Rob”. If Robert was wrong he would have gone on to say “Roger, Ronald, Raymond, until he got it right or one of the ladies gave it to him as they did with other information he couldn't get. Or he would have changed the subject as he did when he got cancer wrong.

(2) That Robert had “Passed”
Explanation – Once again “Passed?” was a question not a statement. It didn’t become a “hit” until it was confirmed. JE’s claimed ability is talking to dead people and everyone is there so he can talk to their dead people. JE is always asking for names of dead people not living people. It was a virtual given that Robert had passed. Yet JE still had to ask if he had. Wasn't Robert sure that he was dead?

So JE didn’t achieve those two “startlingly specific, unique, personal, unknowable hits directed at specific people” at all. He merely asked two very likely questions that he virtually already knew the answers to and other people confirmed they were correct.

For JE to achieve two “startlingly specific, unique, personal, unknowable hits directed at specific people” he would have had to say something like – “Your father Robert is dead” without asking questions. After all he clams to get his information from the dead, not the living.

So will you now consider JE is a fraud? I think not.
 
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Explain to me:

1) JE's hits in the Michael Prescott article.

2) JE's hits with me and my brother.

3) JE's hits with my old work friend.

Then, I'll comment.


Robin, no one can explain exactly what JE did in any of those cases because it is an unknown just exactly what he did do in those cases.

I know you think that your memory is perfect, but it is not. Your own blog shows that your own memory differed from your brothers regarding Valerie Harper. It is unknown how accurately you or your brother or your friend have portrayed any other pieces of your experiences.

If you've read any of the transcripts posted, or viewed any of the unedited videos, you know that the way JE works does not match what you've described. You do not mention any of the things that he got wrong. And he *always* gets some stuff wrong. You've obviously forgotten it. However what else was said, and what else was asked could be clues as to how he got the "hits" he did.

Through the last six months, several of us have explained how cold reading works, as well as warm and hot reading, and other techniques used by psychics and mentalists. But you keep ignoring this because you want JE to be real, and because you want your dead relatives to be communicating with you.
 
Robin, no one can explain exactly what JE did in any of those cases because it is an unknown just exactly what he did do in those cases.

I know you think that your memory is perfect, but it is not. Your own blog shows that your own memory differed from your brothers regarding Valerie Harper. It is unknown how accurately you or your brother or your friend have portrayed any other pieces of your experiences.

If you've read any of the transcripts posted, or viewed any of the unedited videos, you know that the way JE works does not match what you've described. You do not mention any of the things that he got wrong. And he *always* gets some stuff wrong. You've obviously forgotten it. However what else was said, and what else was asked could be clues as to how he got the "hits" he did.

Through the last six months, several of us have explained how cold reading works, as well as warm and hot reading, and other techniques used by psychics and mentalists. But you keep ignoring this because you want JE to be real, and because you want your dead relatives to be communicating with you.
I understand how you might feel that way.

But you are wrong about JE.

If you were read by him, you'd know.

Just like I...know.
 
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Explain to me:

1) JE's hits in the Michael Prescott article.

2) JE's hits with me and my brother.

3) JE's hits with my old work friend.

Then, I'll comment.

Can't. No transcripts. Not even a heavily edited video.

I understand how you might feel that way.

No, you don't.

You are wrong.

No, she isn't.

If you were read by him, you'd know.

She already knows he's a fraud. What's sad is that you seem to be fairly intelligent, yet you allow yourself to be scammed by a loser.
 
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