Looking for Skeptics

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Foolmewunz said:
?????

Kate is your daughter, right?

How can you say "let's go for it" if you haven't been able to get in touch with her and don't know if she's available or willing? She is an integral part of the protocol.

I really think you either do not take any of this seriously or you flat out do not understand what's being said to you.
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I understand everything that is being said. Kate was only brought into this last night. Please remember that this is a preliminary test. If I cannot produce a third party in such a short time, card tricks can still be done in a similar way. Spirits will still talk to Alderbank, and Skype will be watching and hearing every part of what is happening.
 
flaccon said:
Let's go for it :) I have been trying Kate's number all day, will keep trying. However if to no avail, the test is hopefully being skyped yes?
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Have you not read the protocol? Kate takes an essential part in the test. She is the friend and if you don't have someone who you agree is a suitable, trusted friend then there is no test.

I can't do Wednesday now but if Kate can't do tonight after all, would Tuesday (tomorrow), Thursday or Friday be possible instead?

Please confirm a suitable day for the test and confirm that you have read the protocol and agree with it.
 
flaccon said:
I understand everything that is being said. Kate was only brought into this last night. Please remember that this is a preliminary test. If I cannot produce a third party in such a short time, card tricks can still be done in a similar way. Spirits will still talk to Alderbank, and Skype will be watching and hearing every part of what is happening.
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Sorry Flaccon but that's really not how it works.

A protocol is written up and agreed by both parties (you and Alderbank).
This protocol explains the rules of the test and what constitutes success and failure. Any deviation from the agreed protocol invalidates the test and you'd just be wasting Alderbank's time and effort as well as wasting a great opportunity to provide objective evidence of spirit communication.

Make sure you know what you are agreeing to before agreeing to it.
Make sure you can comply with every single point within the protocol before agreeing to it.
Make sure you can do what the protocol requires of you before agreeing to it.

Don't agree to it thinking that when Alderbank get's there he's going to instantly become a believer because he listens to some audio files.
You are not inviting him around to convert him, you are inviting him around to attempt to gather objective evidence.
 
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Pixel42 said:
Here's jsfisher's protocol with the suggested improvements incorporated.

1. Alderbank selects a card from his pack at random and allows flaccon to view it, without looking at it himself

2. flaccon asks the spirits to identify it, then she listens to the recording playback to hear the card correctly identified. She repeats this up to four times, until she is satisfied that she has a usable recording. If she has still not succeeded then that card and recording are discarded

3. If the recording is deemed acceptable, Alderbank will seal the card in a numbered envelope (still without looking at it) and set it to one side. The recording file should be named CARD1.WAV and placed in a directory with no other files on flaccon's computer. flaccon should make her own private note of which card was identified in each file.

4. Repeat steps 1-3 until at least 3 usable recordings - CARD1.WAV, CARD2.WAV and CARD3.WAV - are available. If after 90 minutes this has not proved possible then the test protocol is deemed unworkable and the test abandoned

5. The computer is left set up so the individual recordings can be easily played for flaccon's friend. Alderbank looks over the computer screen and the general area around it for any (presumably unintended) clues to the cards' identities.

6. flaccon leaves and the friend is brought in.

7. Alderbank will open the first envelope and show the first card to the friend. He will then replay the first recording, and the friend will verify that he/she can hear it being identified in the recording. If he/she cannot verify this then the test protocol is deemed unworkable and the test abandoned.

8. Alderbank will then replay each of the other two recordings for the friend, one at a time, and allow the friend to name the corresponding card from the recording. If this takes longer than 20 minutes that card is abandoned. If the friend thinks they have heard the card's identification successfully Alderbank will write the card name provided by the friend on the corresponding envelope. Both suit and number of the card must be identified. ETA: If the friend cannot hear the identity of at least one of the two cards in its corresponding recording then the test protocol is deemed unworkable and the test abandoned

9. Once all three cards have been handled, flaccon will be brought back in and Alderbank will open the envelopes and permit both flaccon and the friend to compare the cards to what the friend heard on the recordings.

Success criteria: at least one of the two cards should be successfully identified (both suit and number) for further investigation to be deemed warranted
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I predict the test will end at step 7. That is, if it is carried out at all.

I think the test in which flaccon listens to the randomized recordings herself is much better. Despite her insistance that others hear the same thing as she does, there is not good evidence for it, and indeed there is some evidence against it.

IXP
 
Stray Cat said:
Sorry Flaccon but that's really not how it works.

A protocol is written up and agreed by both parties (you and Alderbank).
This protocol explains the rules of the test and what constitutes success and failure. Any deviation from the agreed protocol invalidates the test and you'd just be wasting Alderbank's time and effort as well as wasting a great opportunity to provide objective evidence of spirit communication.

Make sure you know what you are agreeing to before agreeing to it.
Make sure you can comply with every single point within the protocol before agreeing to it.
Make sure you can do what the protocol requires of you before agreeing to it.

Don't agree to it thinking that when Alderbank get's there he's going to instantly become a believer because he listens to some audio files.
You are not inviting him around to convert him, you are inviting him around to attempt to gather objective evidence.
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I said, many post back, that I thought flaccon had no intention of being tested. She expects Alderbank to come and have his life changed by listening to her recordings.

flaccon -- It ain't going to happen that way.

IXP
 
marplots said:
flaccon,
Do you realize that if you agree to some protocol, that's going to be the "rules?"

The protocol will be raised again and again, like a contract, as a way to decide whether what you claim is so or not. If you are only agreeing to it to be nice or without understanding why it says what it says, you will regret it later. Many have.
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Using patience where patience is necessary, is not going along with things to be nice. I really don't mind either explanation from the supposed experts.

1. It is the spirit of my Father and sister.
2. It's Paredolia and my Father and sister really are rested at peace.

After much of my own experiences, and witnessing other's being subjected to the supernatural, I've witnessed enough to know that it isn't "natural"

Sorry I must sign off for now, will be back online before 6.30pm.
 
Oy vey! Where's John Edward when you need him.

"Uh, over here.... this section. I'm getting a snake or something that sounds like a snake."

"Hiss!"

"No, not you, Randi. Oh, it's not a snake sound it sounds like a kind of snake. The spirits are telling me it's .... asp... aspie... asper.... does that mean something to anyone over here in this section. Yes? You over in Chester?"
 
This would be quite funny if it wasn't so frustrating.

She didn't even bother to answer Alderbank's question as to when would be a suitable time for him come over, when both she and her daughter can be present. I'm not sure she's even understood that tonight's meeting is off.

Unbelievable.
 
Pixel42 said:
This would be quite funny if it wasn't so frustrating.

She didn't even bother to answer Alderbank's question as to when would be a suitable time for him come over, when both she and her daughter can be present. I'm not sure she's even understood that tonight's meeting is off.

Unbelievable.
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On a more positive note though, it is demonstrating more and more clearly that Flaccon seems incapable of comprehending (or that she does comprehend and yet simply ignores) what is being said to her. Which would explain a lot of her past experiences with Bishops and Doctors.
 
flaccon said:
I understand everything that is being said. Kate was only brought into this last night. Please remember that this is a preliminary test. If I cannot produce a third party in such a short time, card tricks can still be done in a similar way. Spirits will still talk to Alderbank, and Skype will be watching and hearing every part of what is happening.
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No, no and no. If you believe that any of these will happen then you do not understand anything that is being said
 
flaccon said:
After much of my own experiences, and witnessing other's being subjected to the supernatural, I've witnessed enough to know that it isn't "natural"
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Here is a link to the true story of a prominent scientist who thought he was seeing a pattern that wasn't there. Other scientists also confirmed his observations. When he was finally tested in a way that he could not know the results beforehand, his "discovery" evaporated. This is why science has to be done with strict protocols.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N_ray

I know you think your discovery is obvious, and this testing is just an annoyance, but history has proved that such "knowledge", even by highly trained persons, is not reliable.

IXP
 
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Alderbank,

If you actually do get a protocol agreed upon, and you do make the visit to flaccon, do you also intend to listen to some of her recordings that have "clear unmistakable" messages?

You seem to have indicated that you would not, but I think there is some value in doing so, because she might be trying to perpetrate a hoax, and it would be interesting to see if there is clear speech on them.

IXP
 
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