Looking for Skeptics

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If the spirits can't even see what is on a face-up card, why should we trust them to be able to impart higher knowledge?
 
Here's a crazy idea. Flaccon if you were able to see the cards but no one else could see them do you think you could get the spirits to tell someone else what card you saw? That person could write down what they think they hear and we could compare to the actual card. Flaccon would not be allowed to speak, interpret, or influence the play back at all.

Eta: I see this has been thought of.
 
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AdMan said:
So there's no way for them to know something that you don't know? And you're the one who deciphers what they're saying?

How surprising. :rolleyes:
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The difficult ones are decipherable by others also, after a little training up to it. There are plenty that are easily heard by others.
 
petrov2500 said:
If the spirits can't even see what is on a face-up card, why should we trust them to be able to impart higher knowledge?
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Because once its realised, what they are saying, all fits into place. (Apart from the things they say concerning science, that's for science to work on. Biochip Biosis)

Sorry I read it wrong. Face down they can't see, face up is easy.
 
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flaccon said:
The difficult ones are decipherable by others also, after a little training up to it. There are plenty that are easily heard by others.
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Woah!
Earlier you said that the spirits spoke in unmistakeable, clear full sentences, now you say the listeners need some 'training' to decipher what is being said.

Has anyone ever arrived at the same deciphered sentence that you did without you needing to tell them in advance what to listen out for?
 
Stray Cat said:
I know some people are giving up trying to develop a test protocol, but these things always take a lot of discussion and amendment. Think about the process that scientists have to go through to test for the most mundane things.

Flaccon: I'm sorry that you are coming up against these problems when you only seem to wish to get the spirits message out. I hope I may have found a way to demonstrate this still using the playing cards, so please focus for a minute and please try to answer my question as accurately as possible.

If Alderbank listens to your recordings will he unmistakeably hear the exact same words that you hear?

If so, then the simplest test bearing in mind tonight's new information about what the spirits can and can not do is for you to pick a random card and look at it, then ask the spirits what card you're looking at. Don't allow Alderbank to see the card and do not give any verbal or visual clues as to what it is. Then place the card face down (still without Alderbank seeing it).

Now Alderbank should be able to listen to the audio file and hear the spirits unmistakeably call out the name of the card.

Only after Alderbank has written down what the spirits have unmistakeably said will the card be turned over to see if it's correct.

Repeat as many times as you wish.

As you've already said that the spirits know the names of the cards, they can shout them out and that they can see cards when you see them and that other people can unmistakeably hear clear voices and full sentences in the audio files, I'd be really interested to know if you think doing the test this way around would work.

Thanks.


For everyone else, Yes I know there are still holes in this idea and it would need developing further for more strict testing, but I'm just trying to explore every possible way to give Flaccon every possible chance to test this objectively, so I'm just running with what Flaccon has said about what the spirits can and can not do.
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You all know how wary I am of anything that requires me to interpret sounds. However since this new proposal has the blessing of the Forum, floccan and the spirits themselves I'll give it a go.

What about 7pm GMT this evening (Monday)?
 
Stray Cat said:
Woah!
Earlier you said that the spirits spoke in unmistakeable, clear full sentences, now you say the listeners need some 'training' to decipher what is being said.

Has anyone ever arrived at the same deciphered sentence that you did without you needing to tell them in advance what to listen out for?
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Please read it properly, the difficult recordings require a trained ear. The easy ones are easy.
 
Alderbank said:
You all know how wary I am of anything that requires me to interpret sounds. However since this new proposal has the blessing of the Forum, floccan and the spirits themselves I'll give it a go.

What about 7pm GMT this evening (Monday)?
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Excellent. Agreed.
 
Alderbank said:
You all know how wary I am of anything that requires me to interpret sounds. However since this new proposal has the blessing of the Forum, floccan and the spirits themselves I'll give it a go.

What about 7pm GMT this evening (Monday)?
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It entirely relies on Flaccon's statement that the spirits speak in unmistakeable, clear full sentences that other people can hear through her speaker system.

The latest revelation is contradicting earlier statements and making it look like that is not the case.
If you need to subjectively decipher garbled noise, that is not a test of anything except your ability to decipher garbled noise. If you get it wrong Flaccon can claim that you weren't listening correctly. If it's clear and unmistakeable like she originally claimed, then there could be no such issue.
 
flaccon said:
Please read it properly, the difficult recordings require a trained ear. The easy ones are easy.
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I did read it correctly, however you failed to answer my simple question:

"Has anyone ever arrived at the same deciphered sentence that you did without you needing to tell them in advance what to listen out for?"
 
flaccon said:
Face down they can't see, face up is easy.
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Yes, because you see the face and because of that you know how to "interpret" the sounds.

This is obvious to everyone except apparently you.
 
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Shall I ring round for a third party tomorrow? I have a 30 year old, very sensible daughter, (supervising Rowton Hall at present)

May I ask what people here think of the Turin Shroud?
 
Stray Cat said:
It entirely relies on Flaccon's statement that the spirits speak in unmistakeable, clear full sentences that other people can hear through her speaker system.

The latest revelation is contradicting earlier statements and making it look like that is not the case.
If you need to subjectively decipher garbled noise, that is not a test of anything except your ability to decipher garbled noise. If you get it wrong Flaccon can claim that you weren't listening correctly. If it's clear and unmistakeable like she originally claimed, then there could be no such issue.
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We are not expecting 100% just significantly better than chance. I will write down answers which are unmistakeable (to me). I will write a question mark for any which are not clear even after being repeated, I won't guess. I will write an X for any which I think flaccon has given me a hint even if accidental. I am fine for flaccon to record the session (I'd prefer it) and post it so that the forum can analyse my performance
 
flaccon said:
May I ask what people here think of the Turin Shroud?
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It's a medieval fake.

And way off-topic in this thread.

ETA: Unless the spirits are revealing something about the shroud to you that you couldn't possibly know and could be independently verified. :D
 
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AdMan said:
Yes, because you see the face and because of that you know how to "interpret" the sounds.

This is obvious to everyone except apparently you.
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They are voices, many of, and many clear. Of course I will hear the difficult words better, I've been doing it for the past 8 months.
 
Shroud of Turin nonsense thread:


→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→

That a way...






ETA: I didn't notice this was addressed.
 
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flaccon said:
They are voices, many of, and many clear. Of course I will hear the difficult words better, I've been doing it for the past 8 months.
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You mean you've been practicing pareidolia, hearing what you want to hear, for eight months.

Again, can the spirits reveal knowledge that you couldn't possibly know?
 
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