Looking for Skeptics

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flaccon said:
I do keep mentioning that the spirits are ok with the card testing, coloured or playing. The spirits are cooperating.

I did test them to see if they could clearly shout cards out, it is clear.
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Taking into account what you and other posters have said, would this work?

  1. I arrive with an unopened pack of cards and a pillowcase. you have 2 sheets of paper and a pen.

  2. I open and shuffle the cards in the pillowcase. I take one card and hold it up inside the pillowcase. the spirits tell you the card and you write it on the first sheet of paper (if it takes some time for them to tell you, I can place the card face down on a plate in full view)

  3. When you have written the name of the card (two characters such as QD, 4H) I place the card face up on the paper next to your writing. we photograph it and upload to this thread.

  4. We repeat once more. A total of two cards have been exposed and named by the spirits

Would this simple protocol work?

flaccon, could you check with the spirits?

Everyone else, could you give me feedback?
 
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I was told the spirits can see, read and answer questions.

Now it seems like we're not sure whether they need our eyes to see. That's not seeing. That's mind reading. Could we have straightforward, unambiguous, non-weasel responses please?

Quote:
flaccon:
The spirits can see yes (confirmed)
The spirits cannot hear properly. They hear bits and pieces and lipread the rest.
The spirits can read.
The spirits answer questions yes.
 
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Stray Cat said:
You could test this by yourself to see if it is possible without having to potentially inconvenience anyone else or potentially waste their time.

Of course you'd have to be totally honest with yourself and I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you would be honest with yourself, but all you need to do is shuffle a deck of cards and without looking at it, choose one and place it face down on the table. Then ask the spirits which card you have just chosen and then see if they give you an answer, After you think you have the answer, turn over the card and see if it's right.

If you can do this simple self test, then we have a starting point to develop a protocol in which we can all agree what constitutes a success and what constitutes a failure.

If you are suggesting a test that you yourself don't even know you can pass, then we aren't actually testing anything that you're claiming, we are testing to see if we can find something for you to claim.
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I didn't have a deck of cards last night, and I didn't think to purchase any today. They we're showing me last night that they can clearly call out cards. The spirits say to claim "special fingers" but apart from all the rest, can you see why I don't wish to claim that? It sounds crazy. I can't actually test it till I need a new computer. So I opted for "Spirits exist and can talk" It saves looking sillier.
 
flaccon said:
I didn't have a deck of cards last night, and I didn't think to purchase any today. They we're showing me last night that they can clearly call out cards. The spirits say to claim "special fingers" but apart from all the rest, can you see why I don't wish to claim that? It sounds crazy. I can't actually test it till I need a new computer. So I opted for "Spirits exist and can talk" It saves looking sillier.
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As a native English speaker, I have to admit that you've finally defeated me. I did not understand anything of that gibberish.

I'm starting to think this is all just one big wind-up troll.
 
Alderbank said:
Taking into account what you and other posters have said, would this work?

  1. I arrive with an unopened pack of cards and a pillowcase. you have 2 sheets of paper and a pen.

  2. I open and shuffle the cards in the pillowcase. I take one card and hold it up inside the pillowcase. the spirits tell you the card and you write it on the first sheet of paper (if it takes some time for them to tell you, I can place the card face down on a plate in full view)

  3. When you have written the name of the card (two characters such as QD, 4H) I place the card face up on the paper next to your writing. we photograph it and upload to this thread.

  4. We repeat once more. A total of two cards have been exposed and named by the spirits

Would this simple protocol work?

flaccon, could you check with the spirits?

Everyone else, could you give me feedback?
Click to expand...

Agreed.
 
Blue Bubble said:
I'm starting to think this is all just one big wind-up troll.
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I had to quit posting questions because I had a similar feeling. Not troll so much as different ideas and objectives. It seems to me that flaccon came here to show this wonderful thing she's been involved with, thinking it earthshaking and finally what the skeptics have been seeking.

And here we are asking all this tangential stuff, trying to fit the experience into boxes and analyzing it. One party is a poet describing a sunset. The other wants to understand, catalog and evaluate.

I just don't see it ending well.

This is the first time I've followed a thread like this, but I bet others here have traveled similar roads before and can probably guess how it plays out.

We don't really need any new tests. There are images posted (the "four-way" picture) which embody all the claims needed to see the collision in operation.

"I see these things in this picture, a picture the spirits drew and one which is impossible for humans to reconstruct." Now, if I don't see the miracle in that, why would I expect to move forward at all with anything else? We could have stopped with the picture. I fear it will only get sadder from here.
 
flaccon, your silence in addressing my suggestions is deafening. I can only conclude your avoidance means you disagree with them and feel your thread should remain here in this website's very prominent Million Dollar Challenge sub-forum, even though you acknowledge you have no intention of applying for the challenge. I have my suspicions why you might think it is more advantageous for your thread to remain here instead of a forum section which offers less prominence, but I'll save my thoughts on that for later.

I guess I'll have to talk to the mods about this one myself. Ugh. I hate dealing with the mods, especially that kmortis dude. Every time I turn around he tries to hump my leg again.

Down, kmortis, down boy!

*DAO slaps kmortis upside the head with a rolled-up newspaper and squirts him with a stream of water from the schpritzer bottle*

flaccon, one last chance. Please spare me the anguish.
 
Blue Bubble said:
As a native English speaker, I have to admit that you've finally defeated me. I did not understand anything of that gibberish.

I'm starting to think this is all just one big wind-up troll.
Click to expand...

I will try to explain again..

After playing cards were suggested, Alderbank offered to bring cards, so I did not purchase any. I cannot test them without a deck of cards, but I checked to see if they could be heard clearly enough calling out different cards. Test successful.

I cannot claim something I cannot test. But I can claim the rest.
(I am going now out to purchase playing cards)
 
flaccon said:
I do keep mentioning that the spirits are ok with the card testing, coloured or playing. The spirits are cooperating.

I did test them to see if they could clearly shout cards out, it is clear.
Click to expand...

Then do the test by using my method.
Make twelve recordings, but don't listen to them.
Name the recordings after the cards shown... something like:
Aclub, 2club, 3club, Kdiam, Qdiam.

Make a list of the cards as you record them.
Make a copy of the list for Alderbank to use.
With everyone except Alderbank out of the room, have Alderbank rename the files to 1,2,3 and so on using dice to randomize it.
He should write down what gets renamed to what, of course. He should put that in an envelope and put it in his pocket.
Then he should move the files as a group to a different folder. In the operating system, this won't change the data in the file, but it changes the information the operating system has about the file, in particular the file creation and last-accessed times.

Then Alderbank can take a walk or something while you take all the time you need to hear what the spirits said on each recording, doing whatever you usually do.

On your list of card names, mark the number of the file you heard that card name in.

When you're done, you and Alderbank will each have a list of card names followed by a number.
They should be identical.
 
Blue Bubble said:
As a native English speaker, I have to admit that you've finally defeated me. I did not understand anything of that gibberish.

I'm starting to think this is all just one big wind-up troll.
Click to expand...

I understand that we have been given the special finger but the rest defeats me too. I had no idea that a simple test would be so challenging.

I wholeheartedly agree with earlier suggestions that local sceptics could take part in a trial. However although the spirits now seem willing, it is ironic that sceptics in nearby Chester and Liverpool are elusive

I'm willing to try one last shot. I am still willing to visit flaccon and try to administer a test. However I will take my tablet and link with a seasoned forumite using Skype. You could guide what we say and do and I would be your hands and eyes (a bit like the spirits really).

Would anyone be willing to share in this way and mentor me? It would take time to set up and you should be aware that the event would probably take place between 6pm and 9pm BST.

Anyone up for it?
 
Dumb All Over said:
flaccon, your silence in addressing my suggestions is deafening. I can only conclude your avoidance means you disagree with them and feel your thread should remain here in this website's very prominent Million Dollar Challenge sub-forum, even though you acknowledge you have no intention of applying for the challenge. I have my suspicions why you might think it is more advantageous for your thread to remain here instead of a forum section which offers less prominence, but I'll save my thoughts on that for later.

I guess I'll have to talk to the mods about this one myself. Ugh. I hate dealing with the mods, especially that kmortis dude. Every time I turn around he tries to hump my leg again.

Down, kmortis, down boy!

*DAO slaps kmortis upside the head with a rolled-up newspaper and squirts him with a stream of water from the schpritzer bottle*

flaccon, one last chance. Please spare me the anguish.
Click to expand...

Any silence is not intentional. I am answering posts, answering the phone, speaking to spirits, and work out their ability with the card testing.

I have not disagreed to anything.

If I am in the wrong section, I am new to this. If you wish to have this thread removed, please go ahead, but please let me know should you decide that, as I'd like to print it off.
 
Dumb All Over said:
When you type flaccon into the reply box, the spell-checker is auto-correcting it to flacon. I think that's why we are seeing so many misspellings.
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For the record, I will be honest and admit my own misspelling was deliberate.
It's part of the reason I referred to myself as a jerk.
 
TjW said:
Make a list of the cards as you record them.
Make a copy of the list for Alderbank to use.
With everyone except Alderbank out of the room, have Alderbank rename the files to 1,2,3 and so on using dice to randomize it.
He should write down what gets renamed to what, of course. He should put that in an envelope and put it in his pocket.
Then he should move the files as a group to a different folder. In the operating system, this won't change the data in the file, but it changes the information the operating system has about the file, in particular the file creation and last-accessed times.

Then Alderbank can take a walk or something while you take all the time you need to hear what the spirits said on each recording, doing whatever you usually do.

On your list of card names, mark the number of the file you heard that card name in.

When you're done, you and Alderbank will each have a list of card names followed by a number.
They should be identical.
Click to expand...


There are two problems with this.

One is that Flaccon has suggested that the voices are part of the playback process rather than part of the recording.

The other is that the recordings will almost inevitably have different incidental noises on them. If Flaccon does manage to correctly identify them, all that has been demonstrated is an ability to tell one recording from another. It won't confirm the existence of the spirits.
 
Alderbank said:
I understand that we have been given the special finger but the rest defeats me too. I had no idea that a simple test would be so challenging.

I wholeheartedly agree with earlier suggestions that local sceptics could take part in a trial. However although the spirits now seem willing, it is ironic that sceptics in nearby Chester and Liverpool are elusive

I'm willing to try one last shot. I am still willing to visit flaccon and try to administer a test. However I will take my tablet and link with a seasoned forumite using Skype. You could guide what we say and do and I would be your hands and eyes (a bit like the spirits really).

Would anyone be willing to share in this way and mentor me? It would take time to set up and you should be aware that the event would probably take place between 6pm and 9pm BST.

Anyone up for it?
Click to expand...

I am not sure what you mean by elusive, I am willing to travel places. I . I'm up in Nottingham next week, with a small group. If anyone lives near, we can arrange a sit-in.

Skype sounds excellent.
 
flaccon said:
Any silence is not intentional. I am answering posts, answering the phone, speaking to spirits, and work out their ability with the card testing.

I have not disagreed to anything.

If I am in the wrong section, I am new to this. If you wish to have this thread removed, please go ahead, but please let me know should you decide that, as I'd like to print it off.
Click to expand...

This thread would not disappear. If it were decided it has nothing to do with the MDC, it could be moved to a different subforum, one that is less prominent. I initially suggested you post in this sub-forum because it seemed like the place to be at the time. We'll see.
 
TjW said:
Then do the test by using my method.
Make twelve recordings, but don't listen to them.
Name the recordings after the cards shown... something like:
Aclub, 2club, 3club, Kdiam, Qdiam.

Make a list of the cards as you record them.
Make a copy of the list for Alderbank to use.
With everyone except Alderbank out of the room, have Alderbank rename the files to 1,2,3 and so on using dice to randomize it.
He should write down what gets renamed to what, of course. He should put that in an envelope and put it in his pocket.
Then he should move the files as a group to a different folder. In the operating system, this won't change the data in the file, but it changes the information the operating system has about the file, in particular the file creation and last-accessed times.

Then Alderbank can take a walk or something while you take all the time you need to hear what the spirits said on each recording, doing whatever you usually do.

On your list of card names, mark the number of the file you heard that card name in.

When you're done, you and Alderbank will each have a list of card names followed by a number.
They should be identical.
Click to expand...

Looks good to me. I've looked back at your earlier post Tj and I am up for doing it.

Will flaccon do it? She might need some coaching with the IT stuff. In the past she has had trouble with copying these files (she called it 'file transfer')

If flaccon is willing and she tries making the files etc. and we can confirm she has done so correctly, I think it would be a good test
 
I mean that although the spirits are ready and willing, neither Chester nor Liverpool sceptics replied to requests to take part in this test
 
Alderbank said:
Looks good to me. I've looked back at your earlier post Tj and I am up for doing it.

Will flaccon do it? She might need some coaching with the IT stuff. In the past she has had trouble with copying these files (she called it 'file transfer')

If flaccon is willing and she tries making the files etc. and we can confirm she has done so correctly, I think it would be a good test
Click to expand...


No. All that it can demonstrate is the ability to tell one recording from another - see my post above.
 
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