Looking for Skeptics

[Ampulla of Vater]

1) Alderbank brings a deck of brand new playing cards and 5 dark-coloured envelopes to meet flacon.
2) The cards are opened and shuffled.
3) Five cards are randomly drawn and each one placed into a separate dark-coloured envelope face-down, without either participant seeing the chosen card.
4) The envelopes are placed side-by-side on a table.
5) The spirits are asked about each envelope, one by one, and whatever they communicate is written on the outside of the envelope.
6) After all five are completed, each envelope is opened and compared against what was communicated.
7) If 3 of the 5 cards are successfully identified by number and (suit or color?) then it is considered a success.

(I've never attempted to write a testing protocol before so go easy on me.)

ETA: Sorry js, I was probably typing when you posted yours. I like the pillow case idea.

 

[Maurice Ledifficile]

You listen to a recording and hear one thing. A while later you listen to it and hear something else. Do you really think the simplest explanation of that is that the sprits are altering the recordings? Can't you think of another explanation?

IXP

I think you have to understand that the spirits are not being recorded. The are in the noise of the playback process. Speaker background noise or something.

 

[SezMe]

I imagine flaccon thinks that the voices will sound sufficiently impressive that Alderbank will declare they must indeed be voices.

No need to imagine. See here. It seems to me that flaccon has made the test simple and clear. All Alderbank has to do is listen to a few recordings then write down what (s)he heard. Then, if that does not produce an unmistakenly complete match, his/her claim is rejected.

ETA: And consider this:

It's likely Alderbank won't hear just singular words, they speak with full sentence, each with different pitch/tone/speed.

Alderbank has to hear "full sentences" in order to verify flaccon's claim. I think this test is much easier to run than the many protocols suggested here.

 

[IXP]

double post, deleted.

IXP

 

[Lanzy]

Wow, you are still talking about this? What is it, give her enough rope day?

 

[SezMe]

No, I don't fly nor will I.

It is not necessary to go to Randi's location to conduct an MDC test. As long as the protocol defines procedures to be followed, including location, then the test can be conducted anywhere where those conditions are met.

 

[IXP]

I think you have to understand that the spirits are not being recorded. The are in the noise of the playback process. Speaker background noise or something.

I understand that she has made many conflicting statements about this.

IXP

 

[jsfisher]

ETA: Sorry js, I was probably typing when you posted yours. I like the pillow case idea.

It is all good. By the way, I went with 2 cards instead of more for two reasons. The first was time. Flaccon hasn't really described the effort involved, but I'm assuming it takes a while to home in on the spirit voices and decipher what they are saying. Worse case (I hope) with 2 is probably 2 hours.

The second was one of probability. Either the spirits will relay the identity of each card to flaccon or they won't. Two cards is sufficient to rule out random luck.

 

[Stray Cat]

If her experience is like mine, it takes a number of tries before you can make out the words. But after that they become clearer and clearer.

IXP

Objection, the council is attempting to lead the witness your honor.

 

[SezMe]

Get rid of the extra cards and the extra randomizing. Cards 1 - 5 randomly placed in an envelope.

I figure playing cards are better as nothing has to be made and they are easy to come across.

In that case, just use Zener cards. They're designed for such a test.

 

[Ampulla of Vater]

Yeah, but where is Alderbank going to get them by tomorrow? I don't think we want to make him traipse all over the place to do this.

 

[IXP]

Objection, the council is attempting to lead the witness your honor.

It is hard to lead someone who is already guided by super-intelligent spirits.

IXP

 

[Stray Cat]

It is hard to lead someone who is already guided by super-intelligent spirits.

IXP

Yup, you can drag a horse to water but a pencil must be lead.

 

[Foolmewunz]

Originally Posted by flaccon
It's no excuse, it's a reason. It's no fault of mine that they find such monkey-like tests very insulting. I'd be insulted too.

Think on this. It's very important to understanding the other significant aspect of your claims.

The spirits seem to be in sync with you in a number of areas:
You're religious. The spirits are religious.
You think it's the church's duty to examine cases of demons, possessions and hauntings. The spirits think it's the church's duty to examine case of demons, possessions and hauntings.
You would take umbrage at such petty tests when the fate of the world is at stake. The spirts take umbrage at such petty tests when the fate of the world is at stake.
You think The DaVinci Code is a true study. The spirits think The DaVinci Code is a true study.

I'm not going to be at all surprised if your spirits confirm your belief in orbs, UFOs and Chemtrails.

Bump. Since I'm apparently being ignored (sniff!) and others have delved into confirmation bias in a few posts.

And now we learn that the Swedish "believer" hears things in Swedish.

Flaccon, have you given THAT aspect any thought? Is there a Swedish speaking spirit in there? Or are the spirits all-seeing and all-knowing (like Chris Kringle in Miracle on 34th Street) and can speak any language due to said omniscience?

And I asked separately whether these were your personal thousand spirits, so apparently (from their Swedish chit chat) they're sort of "universal".

Are they location based, e.g. reside in your house and choose to occupy the bits and bytes of the computer when they want or need to communicate? Or do they actually live in the laptop?

Do they manifest themselves in any other way than through the computer? What if they have an earth-shattering message for the Bishop and you're not on the computer. Do they rattle dishes, move furniture, bang on the pipes, etc...? Or do they wait patiently for you to log on?

I'm willing to wait for the preliminary test, but I'd like to hear some of the back story. If they're not dead, were they once living? Apparently if Reg is there, some of them are formerly living persons. Does this apply to all of them? And was Judas really THE Judas Iscariot? Or was that just a malevolent spirit who identified himself as Judas while he was tormenting and torturing you and your family?

ETA: And what do the spirits think of squids?

 

[Drs_Res]

In that case, just use Zener cards. They're designed for such a test.

Yeah, but where is Alderbank going to get them by tomorrow? I don't think we want to make him traipse all over the place to do this.

Any magic shop would carry them, or he could just print them up at home.

Page 17 of this PDF file: JREF IN THE CLASSROOM MODULE 001

 

[jsfisher]

Bump. Since I'm apparently being ignored (sniff!) and others have delved into confirmation bias in a few posts.

And now we learn that the Swedish "believer" hears things in Swedish.

Flaccon, have you given THAT aspect any thought? Is there a Swedish speaking spirit in there? Or are the spirits all-seeing and all-knowing (like Chris Kringle in Miracle on 34th Street) and can speak any language due to said omniscience?

Did you miss the part about how the recordings adapt to be topical when played back again in the future? Not only are the spirits taking exception with testing now, they are doing so now on recordings made months ago even though they didn't then.

Then again, since the order of operations was always ask a question after making the recording, not the reverse, the voices heard on the recording are both permanent, since flaccon tells us others later hear the same as she, and alterable, since flaccon tells us some of her old recordings now play back differently.

So, a Swede hearing Swedish should be no surprise. I would expect, though, for the Swede and the Brit to hear the same message, just in different languages. Wouldn't you?

You'd probably hear English with a Thai cadence and a Italian-Yiddish inflection. The message would probably be about coffee, so listen carefully.

...
ETA: And what do the spirits think of squids?

I'd like to know, too.

 

[Drs_Res]

Since it's not spirits in the recordings, how about starting with an audio file that really is silent? I could supply one as others can I am sure.

 

[Ladewig]

So. Twenty-three pages have gone by and the applicant has not agreed to a detailed protocol. Has there ever been a JREF thread started by someone with special powers in which a fair and precise protocol was decided sometime after 23 pages of talking about testing?

I have not yet seen any evidence that flaccon even understands the purpose of a protocol.

 

[wardenclyffe]

So. Twenty-three pages have gone by and the applicant has not agreed to a detailed protocol. Has there ever been a JREF thread started by someone with special powers in which a fair and precise protocol was decided sometime after 23 pages of talking about testing?

I have not yet seen any evidence that flaccon even understands the purpose of a protocol.

Anita Ikonen was tested by both the IIG (www.iigwest.org) and the JREF, sort of, after many many more pages. I don't know how many pages (because I'm too lazy to look) before DowserDon was tested by, among others, Pixel42.

Ward

 

[Drs_Res]

Was it Edge that went to Randi's office and failed and SezMe helped him do some other test later?