Looking for Skeptics

[Pixel42]

It's worth pointing out that scientists do these kind of tests to check that they aren't inadvertently fooling themselves all the time. They don't consider such tests either monkey like or insulting.

 

[Cassidy]

You'd be insulted by being asked to cooperate in producing the only kind of objective evidence that would demonstrate that you were not a figment of someone's imagination? When so much was riding on that evidence being produced? Why?

Because common sense would tell me to move on such silliness.

 

[Cassidy]

It's worth pointing out that scientists do these kind of tests to check that they aren't inadvertently fooling themselves all the time. They don't consider such tests either monkey like or insulting.

Well spirit's do.

 

[Pixel42]

Such primitive testing is not necessary to prove their existence.

Yes it is. Unless you can suggest another way of doing so?

And the scientific method is not primitive. It's the end product of centuries of the best efforts of mankind's greatest minds, and a hell of a lot of bitter experience.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Such primitive testing is not necessary to prove their existence.

Do the spirits have a better idea?

If they find answering simple questions to establish their veracity beneath their dignity it's fortunate they're now beyond the world of call centres and telephone banking.

Also if they consider humans lesser intelligencies, they ought to be smart enough to grasp the logical concept of proving they can tell people something the people don't already know. I wonder how much less intelligent they consider humans to be.

 

[Pixel42]

Because common sense would tell me to move on such silliness.

Common sense says the earth is flat.

And there's nothing silly about the scientific method either. To think that checking you aren't inadvertently fooling yourself is silly is a very silly thing to think.

 

[Mojo]

It's no excuse, it's a reason. It's no fault of mine that they find such monkey-like tests very insulting. I'd be insulted too.

What is "the great mystery of life", and how have they explained it?

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Because common sense would tell me to move on such silliness.

I don't understand what you mean. What's silly about it?

 

[Mojo]

Well spirit's do.

Can they explain the great mystery of apostrophes?

 

[Pixel42]

Also if they consider humans lesser intelligencies, they ought to be smart enough to grasp the logical concept of proving they can tell people something the people don't already know. I wonder how much less intelligent they consider humans to be.

I don't think spirits who are so stupid that they can't grasp the basic principles of the scientific method or the concept of objective evidence are likely to have anything worthwhile to tell us anyway. So if they refuse to cooperate we won't be missing anything of interest.

 

[Biscuit]

It appears to me that they do not wish to be approached by a lesser intelligent form such as man, and must perform magician-like acts to be taken serious.

Such primitive testing is not necessary to prove their existence.

This primitive testing as you call it is the basis for all our knowledge and technology. The same technology these spirits are using to talk to you. Magic isn't real and no one is asking them to perform magic.

Are you now backing out of any testing?

 

[Jack by the hedge]

I don't think spirits who are so stupid that they can't grasp the basic principles of the scientific method or the concept of objective evidence are likely to have anything worthwhile to tell us anyway. So if they refuse to cooperate we won't be missing anything of interest.

I was rather thinking the same. So far flaccon is painting a picture of spirits who are pompous, self-important, truculent, illogical and uncooperative, with a condescending and dismissive view humans and their affairs.

Not sure I would bother signing up for their newsletter.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Flaccon, would you mind asking the spirits on my behalf if they are aware that they appear to be suspiciously evasive on the point of proving they exist?

 

[Dumb All Over]

Can they explain the great mystery of apostrophes?

Do you mean like John, Luke, Peter and Paul? Those apostrophes?

 

[TjW]

Fresh recordings could work as a very, very simple first test. Make 10 fresh recordings, while Alderbank is present. Listen to each several times while remaining absolutely silent. You and Alderbank both write down what you think you hear, while not letting each other see your answers. If 7 or more out of 10 of the phrases that you both write down match, then that counts as a successful test. If you speak, make any noise, try to look at Alderbank's answers, or try to show him yours, or less than 7 answers match, then that counts as a failure.

Agreed?

If she's going to make ten or so recordings, then the multiple-recording protocol I posted earlier would be good.
I thought it might have some chance of convincing her that it's pareidolia.
It doesn't require that use anything she isn't already using, or for Alderbank to be able to hear the voices.
If it's a question of pareidolia letting her hear some words related to the question, then I would expect she'd either hear nothing, or still hear answers related to the questions, but that they wouldn't necessarily be on the recording associated with that question.

But I think she's probably too heavily emotionally invested in her current beliefs for any evidence to sway her.

 

[Mojo]

Do you mean like John, Luke, Peter and Paul? Those apostrophes?

Has anything amusing ever happened to you in connection with a spoon?

 

[Biscuit]

From page 2

I haven't dismissed anything. I value in-put. I asked for skeptics so I can observe their reaction, gather their information, and check a few pointers, so I know what we are to expect. I don't feel I've rambled have I? If I have, it has been a very enlightening ramble. I don't mind removing myself from this thread if you feel it worthless, I've gathered "reaction" "information" enough to add another page to the book (after my homework last night) Thanks for your input.

I don't think there was ever any interest in undergoing scientific testing. I think flaccon came here to prove to herself that skeptics are mean and nasty and then Add a new chapter to her website explaining how she tried to work with the skeptics but they were unwilling to cooperate.

Part of this is the persecution she feels being one of the few that is enlightened. The church won't listen, the skeptics won't listen, the doctors won't listen. I will apologize in full with donation to the charity of flaccon's choice if she undertakes serious testing but I won't hold my breath.

 

[Dumb All Over]

Has anything amusing ever happened to you in connection with a spoon?

I will not answer that on the grounds that it might incriminate me.

 

[Mojo]

It appears to me that they do not wish to be approached by a lesser intelligent form such as man...

Previously you have claimed that they are dead people. Why would being dead make them more intelligent?

 

[TjW]

As I recall from the Thomas Edison Ghost Machine thread, the spirits were asking for a way of communicating more clearly. If they aren't interested enough to show they exist, screw 'em. They can build their own damn machine.