Moneymakin'! The BFRO Bigfoot Expeditions Thread.

[River]

^^^ Exactly. You don't see the fair claiming we need to spend more dollars investigating the phenomenon and insisting that it's real. It's sold as a fair attraction, not as a "real entity"

Moneymaker has been on many television screens claiming that bigfoot is not only real, he's seen it on a few occasions and he feels like science is ignoring the most important discovery of a lifetime. (if you were to believe his shpeel) He's doing it for profit, and he's deluding others into believing there is a huge beast wandering around the forests. What happens when someone takes a shot at one? (and someone dies, like a hiker in the distance) Is it still going to be innocent? Scientists like Meldrum should be held to a higher standard when it comes to these things. I find his bosses to be at fault, for putting up with the shenanigans. Albeit his funding is mostly private, it's still a huge embarrassment to a serious school. I'll be happy when all of the silly belief systems are exposed. It's just one of many things used to bilk the weak (minded) from cash.

 

[HarryHenderson]

Matt is nothing like any of these mediums who exploit peoples grief for gain.

He isnt hurting anyone, and he isnt exploiting anyone. I personally think he believes there is a bigfoot, but he is one of those people who doesn't have a moral problem with "helping" others see the evidence. Its not exactly fraud, even if there might be someone in the woods knocking two sticks together every now and again. It isnt exactly honest either. But the people who go on his expeditions know what thy are getting and are happy to pay for it. Somebody who is all torn up and paying to hear what their dead mum has to say... Thats completely different (not that everyone who thinks or says they can speak to the dead goes about it the same way of course)

Funny how all those tress got in the way of you seeing the forest. Obviously you didn't read the initial bumped link above. I admit you're good at pretending you're oblivious to the concept, so I'll ask, do you have any understanding at all of the concept of honesty? Because according to you, his charging $500 a head to go on midnight Bigfoot hikes with him is not only legal, but wholly honest and morally acceptable because, well, he sometimes winks when he takes your money. I'll bet money that great American Bernie Madoff winked a few times too.

FTR (since I asked?), I don't believe there's any difference between Sylvia Brown and Matt Moneymaker in terms of their dubious character. Both are antisocial opportunists who derive 99% of their income off the simple premise that they're being sincere and honest. And yet, anyone with just an amoeba's intelligence could decipher the cosmic implausibility that either one of them actually 'believes in' the underlying subject matter of their con. Does anyone not Strange famous seriously doubt that if you took out the monetary gain component, we'd never hear from either one of these lumps again?

ETA:
Regarding his Bigfoot expeditions, I'm more and more curious-er why someone 'purely skeptical' hasn't gone on one of these expeditions and written an expose of what's really going on there. Reading the 'reviews' on the BFRO website is no different than Justin Bieber writing his own reviews. We really need somebody to go to the show and give an honest (there's that word again, sorry Strange Famous) review.

 

[Strange famous]

It is my opinion that Matt Moneymaker probably believes Bigfoot is real, and probably has seen dark shadows of heard funny noises in the forest that support his belief.

I think he deliberately exaggerates or maybe fakes some "evidence" but believes that he is replicating something that is real rather than complete fantasy.

_

I think the people who go on his trips get exactly what they want. I do think it matters that he might wink when he takes the money. Sylvia Browne doesn't. That is the big difference.

NOBODY goes on a BFRO Bigfoot hunt thinking they are going on a serious zoological expedition to look for a real animal in a scientific way. They go to have an adventure and tell and listen to some tall tales, and hear a wood knock of a Bigfoot howl in the distance.

_

Like I said, Inverness makes a ton of money selling "Loch Ness" to tourists. Are those tourists being defrauded? Is the head of the Highlands Tourist Agency an anti-social monster? I don't see any difference. People go and visit Loch Ness (I have myself, although my grandparents lived in Inverness...) and have some fun learning about and having a look for the monster.

 

[Resume]

NOBODY goes on a BFRO Bigfoot hunt thinking they are going on a serious zoological expedition to look for a real animal in a scientific way. They go to have an adventure and tell and listen to some tall tales, and hear a wood knock of a Bigfoot howl in the distance.

You can't possibly know this.

Campfire stories and S'mores don't cost five bills.

 

[River]

It is my opinion that Matt Moneymaker probably believes Bigfoot is real, and probably has seen dark shadows of heard funny noises in the forest that support his belief.

I think he deliberately exaggerates or maybe fakes some "evidence" but believes that he is replicating something that is real rather than complete fantasy.

_

I think the people who go on his trips get exactly what they want. I do think it matters that he might wink when he takes the money. Sylvia Browne doesn't. That is the big difference.

NOBODY goes on a BFRO Bigfoot hunt thinking they are going on a serious zoological expedition to look for a real animal in a scientific way. They go to have an adventure and tell and listen to some tall tales, and hear a wood knock of a Bigfoot howl in the distance.

_

Like I said, Inverness makes a ton of money selling "Loch Ness" to tourists. Are those tourists being defrauded? Is the head of the Highlands Tourist Agency an anti-social monster? I don't see any difference. People go and visit Loch Ness (I have myself, although my grandparents lived in Inverness...) and have some fun learning about and having a look for the monster.

Hmm, why does their website say this:

The overall mission of the BFRO is multifaceted, but the organization essentially seeks to resolve the mystery surrounding the bigfoot phenomenon, that is, to derive conclusive documentation of the species' existence. This goal is pursued through the proactive collection of empirical data and physical evidence from the field and by means of activities designed to promote an awareness and understanding of the nature and origin of the evidence.

These large apes are spotted mostly in forested regions with abundant protein sources. Deer in particular. They consistently maintain low population levels in those areas, even where the protein sources could support dramatically larger numbers of them. Consequently they have never become an ongoing nuisance to human communities, or to human livestock.

This page seems to have a list of "scientists" and others that study the phenomenon. That seems to totally contradict your assumptions of no one taking it seriously or in a scientific/zoological manor.


What proof do you have of your assertions?

 

[jerrywayne]

Moneymaker and Browne are alike in that both know that believers, above all, want to believe. And Moneymaker and Browne know that they can exploit that want for personal profit with very little blowback from their customers/believers.

Moneymaker comes across as the less bright of the two. Somewhere along the line, he has decided that positive thinking alone replaces rational thought. He is unbridled and is untethered to the bare necessity of fact based reality as it relates to Bigfoot. He is carny. He barks. He sells tickets.

Browne is possibly delusional as well. She has convinced herself of her own power, as derived from the great unchallengeable dodge in the sky, her benefactor, God. Between the two, she is the more guilty because, aside from profit, she may damage the tender psyche of her clients.

 

[Drewbot]

Victims of this type of fraud do not like to go public either.

It is difficult to admit you were duped.

 

[Drewbot]

Wasn't the BFRO at one point guaranteeing contact with a Bigfoot on their trips?

 

[rockinkt]

<snip>
And Moneymaker is a lawyer, ...
<snip>

When did he pass the bar?
A couple of years ago it was a well known fact that he had not passed the bar and was not a practicing lawyer. I must not have gotten the memo about him taking the bar exam and passing it.

 

[Correa Neto]

The BIB (Bigfoots In Black) erased that information from public knowledge.

BTW, I am starting siren-watching expeditions. If you go, you are guaranteed to experience "siren-activity". Just U$ 5K per participant, not including expenses related to travel (airline tickets, for example), food and hotels.

 

[tsig]

The BIB (Bigfoots In Black) erased that information from public knowledge.

BTW, I am starting siren-watching expeditions. If you go, you are guaranteed to experience "siren-activity". Just U$ 5K per participant, not including expenses related to travel (airline tickets, for example), food and hotels.

For $5K I'll send BF to your place of residence. He/she might show up as random knocks, glimpses of blurry beasts, tracks that go no where or strange feelings in the pit of your stomach but there will be a manifestation.

 

[Craig B]

On this basis I expect you will also be leading the campaign to sue the city of Inverness for the amount of "Nessie" tourism they encourage?

If anyone wants to start such a campaign, can they please send me a membership application?

 

[mike3]

FTR (since I asked?), I don't believe there's any difference between Sylvia Brown and Matt Moneymaker in terms of their dubious character. Both are antisocial opportunists who derive 99% of their income off the simple premise that they're being sincere and honest. And yet, anyone with just an amoeba's intelligence could decipher the cosmic implausibility that either one of them actually 'believes in' the underlying subject matter of their con. Does anyone not Strange famous seriously doubt that if you took out the monetary gain component, we'd never hear from either one of these lumps again?

Why is it that it is impossible (or very close to it) for someone who runs one of these kinds of operations to be a true believer? Is it because they have to be rational(!) to successfully (= get their money) run the operation? Which goes to show that "rationality" and "good character" are not equivalent (rational doesn't imply good character and good character doesn't imply rational).

 

[HarryHenderson]

Why is it that it is impossible (or very close to it) for someone who runs one of these kinds of operations to be a true believer? Is it because they have to be rational(!) to successfully (= get their money) run the operation? (Though you can't say "have to be rational in order to run a con", since "conning" implies they know it's false, i.e. are not a believer. Yet that assumption is the target of my question, so that would be circular.) Which goes to show that "rationality" and "good character" are not equivalent (rational doesn't imply good character and good character doesn't imply rational).

That's a great question. Firstly, I was talking specifically about Moneymaker (and/or Brown, and you can add Meldrum to it also). And second, always keep in mind there is no Bigfoot.

So how many times would you estimate the average 'rational true bleever' would need to go out into the woods actively searching for the beast before realizing it's all just a big ghost story? Five, 20, 100 times? How many Bigfoot 'roundups' and expeditions would you say Moneymaker's been on? How many has he been on where he didn't also have paying clients? I'd say he's been on at least 150 of them (and probably 149 of those had some amount of paying customers). So in 150 trips into wild North American country no self respecting Bigfoot could possibly resist, neither he nor anyone else he's ever brought along has ever seen an actual hide or a hair or obtained even one clear picture or one 5 second video - that pesky non-existence thingy and all - yet there's still a 'rational' argument to be made that he could still be a bleever after all that? If that's really so then he's neither rational nor intelligent nor of any value to mankind at all. Off with his head.

 

[mike3]

That's a great question. Firstly, I was talking specifically about Moneymaker (and/or Brown, and you can add Meldrum to it also). And second, always keep in mind there is no Bigfoot.

So how many times would you estimate the average 'rational true bleever' would need to go out into the woods actively searching for the beast before realizing it's all just a big ghost story? Five, 20, 100 times? How many Bigfoot 'roundups' and expeditions would you say Moneymaker's been on? How many has he been on where he didn't also have paying clients? I'd say he's been on at least 150 of them (and probably 149 of those had some amount of paying customers). So in 150 trips into wild North American country no self respecting Bigfoot could possibly resist, neither he nor anyone else he's ever brought along has ever seen an actual hide or a hair or obtained even one clear picture or one 5 second video - that pesky non-existence thingy and all - yet there's still a 'rational' argument to be made that he could still be a bleever after all that? If that's really so then he's neither rational nor intelligent nor of any value to mankind at all. Off with his head.

However, if it's that implausible, then how is it that we manage to run across all kinds of "true believers" on woowoo sites that utterly refuse to budge despite tons and tons of argument against them. Some have even come on this site, for various kinds of woowoo (not just Bigfoot).

 

[The Shrike]

I didn't intend to bump this thread tonight but I've found (or rather not found) something interesting. I'm updating my bigfoot lecture and went to the BFRO website to find some classic Moneymaker talking points. The BFRO, however, appears to be defunct. Anyone know anything about this?

 

[William Parcher]

Hmm. What's the buzz from Bigfooters? That would be big big news and if it isn't plastered all over the Bigfoot and Crypto Web then maybe it didn't happen.

 

[LTC8K6]

Server crash apparently.

 

[Drewbot]

It is still down evidently

 

[Resume]

It is still down evidently

Too many April Fools' Day jokesters?