Cops kill Costco pizza lady....

[Bob001]

....
Other devices have been proposed or are in development. The so-called "green laser" or strobe can induce nausea... Sometimes. Haven't heard any more about it in years....

That might be the Dazer Laser.
http://www.king5.com/news/BLINDING-LASER-BEAM-NEWEST-POLICE-TOOL-98973794.html
http://www.laserenergetics.com/dazerlaser_products_defender.htm

Or maybe this, apparently in use in Iraq and Afghanistan:
http://www.bemeyers.com/index.php?option=com_product&catid=36&id=12

Haven't heard how much they cost (probably lots) or how well they work. But even a modern super bright flashlight with a strobe function might conceivably be disorienting enough that it would give officers time to move in with batons, pepper spray, etc.

 

[WildCat]

You are not answering the question. Please tell me what level of injury is unacceptable and justifies a police officer shooting someone?

Threat of great bodily harm.

Also, how do the police in other countries manage to deal with the likes of domestics and avoid shooting people to a huge extent compared to the US police?

By not being police in a country where people regularly try to kill police.

 

[WildCat]

If only I'd said that the police should walk away and leave her to wander the store. Then this comment might have made sense.

It's exactly what you said, because we are talking about this specific incident.

 

[WildCat]

Knives and guns are contain and negotiate.

Odd then that in the very UK you live in just recently police shot 2 men who lunged at them with knives and a gun. I guess they didn't get your memo.

 

[Nessie]

Threat of great bodily harm.

So that may exclude stab wounds due to such injuries survivability rate and the protection body armour and non lethal equipment the police have such as batons which make a lethal knife wound unlikely, as proven by UK police death rates.

By not being police in a country where people regularly try to kill police.

Any statistics to put that assertion into some kind of context.

 

[Nessie]

Odd then that in the very UK you live in just recently police shot 2 men who lunged at them with knives and a gun. I guess they didn't get your memo.

Did anyone say the police being attacked with knives or guns never happened in the UK?

For all you know, since you have evidenced nothing, it is more common in the UK than the USA for the police to be attacked with weapons.

 

[fuelair]

There are a whole lot of unanswered questions - on both sides of this debate - and without those answers everything is speculation. If instead of saying "Well, if X, then certainly he's innocent/guilty", the real question is "What's the answer to X" (and "Y" and "Z" and more).

How big was this lounge? I worked in an A&P, a large one, and even in a union shop the "lounge" was a 15 x 10 converted store room with some chairs around a table. This is pertinent to just how threatened the LEOs would've felt as it'd be quite different to be seven feet away versus across a forty foot cafeteria.

Were there other civilians in the room who were in danger? Big question!

What, exactly, are we talking about when we say "knife". A Filippina with a machete is quite different from a Filippina with a bread knife.

How many officers were deployed in the confrontation? We know of at least one other because he/she got wounded by a ricochet. Again, see above questions, though. Two officers in a very tight space and a civilian being threatened is quite different from two or three or four officers in a large wide open space with no civilians nearby.

Was the ricochet a ricochet? We have only one account that it was. Was it or was it a wild shot?

What was the training/experience level of the officers?
What orders/instructions, if any, did they have from HQ/Command?

Without the answers to all of these (and other) questions, it's really impossible to make a call on this.

Just a note: I own a Wusthoff bread knife and I would happily use it in a survival fight - though I would prefer other usually available devices.

 

[WildCat]

So that may exclude stab wounds

Incorrect.

Any statistics to put that assertion into some kind of context.

64 killed by suspects last year. 5 from stabbings btw.

 

[WildCat]

Did anyone say the police being attacked with knives or guns never happened in the UK?

And apparently UK cops respond just like US cops do if they're armed.

For all you know, since you have evidenced nothing, it is more common in the UK than the USA for the police to be attacked with weapons.

That's some curious "logic" you employ there.

 

[DreamingNaiad]

It's exactly what you said, because we are talking about this specific incident.

Quote where I said it. If you had read the rest of the post instead of cherry picking random sentences and claiming to know others thoughts you would realise I was talking about something else. Because I have agreed that if she ran at them they did the correct thing.

That you have to outright lie to make a point is very telling. And sad.

I await your apology but I wont hold my breath.

 

[WildCat]

Quote where I said it. If you had read the rest of the post instead of cherry picking random sentences and claiming to know others thoughts you would realise I was talking about something else. Because I have agreed that if she ran at them they did the correct thing.

That you have to outright lie to make a point is very telling. And sad.

I await your apology but I wont hold my breath.

I'll hold your hand and walk you through this. The woman is in a Costco waving scissors and a knife around and threatening people. She comes at the cops, you say the cops should just step aside and let her go where she wishes if she's not attacking them.

Are you under the impression that the only people in the Costco were the woman and the cops?

 

[lionking]

You are not answering the question. Please tell me what level of injury is unacceptable and justifies a police officer shooting someone?

Also, how do the police in other countries manage to deal with the likes of domestics and avoid shooting people to a huge extent compared to the US police?

You have the question wrong. It should be how reasonable the police response was in the circumstances. I think the police will be found to have acted reasonably in this case.

And I will repeat, police shout nt be expected to "take a few knocks" from a person with a knife in the course of their duties.

 

[DreamingNaiad]

I'll hold your hand and walk you through this. The woman is in a Costco waving scissors and a knife around and threatening people. She comes at the cops, you say the cops should just step aside and let her go where she wishes if she's not attacking them.

Are you under the impression that the only people in the Costco were the woman and the cops?

No. I said that aimlessly wandering in their direction doesn't warrant being shot.

And that they could have stepped aside and grabbed her. Nowhere did I say they should get back in their car, drive off and let her wander the aisles.

I was addressing the mentality that sometimes pops up here that people would rather childishly 'stand their ground' in a situation rather than leaving and defusing a situation. Not because I expect the police to walk away, I was just trying to head off any of that macho nonsense.

Try reading the post as a whole instead of cherry-picking.

There is a whole middle ground between shooting someone and letting them go scot-free. You don't have to go to the very extremes.

And I know they weren't the only ones there. Although one would think they would evacuate the staff and customers before getting into an armed confrontation it doesn't seem like they did. But, then again, they probably didn't think it would escalate so quickly.

This is all dependant on if she was just walking around. If she ran at them then they did the right thing. I'm sure we'd all rather she made it out alive. But since the taser didn't work the cops had very few options and had to react quickly.

 

[jj]

If you're serious about police being able to divine who is handy with a blade just by looking at them then yes.

Really?

Ok. I'll accept that in some cases it could be hard, and that a very twisted person could fake being inept.

I wonder how often that would apply to a woman working for Costco.

On the other hand, sometimes it's very easy, too.

 

[WildCat]

No. I said that aimlessly wandering in their direction doesn't warrant being shot.

Why would they have to "move out of her way" if she wasn't coming at them?

If they're "stepping aside", it's to let her pass. You chose those words.

And that they could have stepped aside and grabbed her.

Now she's not wandering aimlessly, she's coming at them? Can you at least attempt to keep your story straight?

Nowhere did I say they should get back in their car, drive off and let her wander the aisles.

You said they should "move out of her way", remember? Again, do you think there was no one else in the Costco? Let's recap your exact words!

If you moving out of the way prevents a death then you do it.

Yep, I read it right the first time.

I was addressing the mentality that sometimes pops up here that people would rather childishly 'stand their ground' in a situation rather than leaving and defusing a situation. Not because I expect the police to walk away, I was just trying to head off any of that macho nonsense.

So they're simultaneously "leaving" but not "walking away"?

Try reading the post as a whole instead of cherry-picking.

Try using words according to their commonly understood meanings.

 

[3point14]

Really?

Ok. I'll accept that in some cases it could be hard, and that a very twisted person could fake being inept.

I wonder how often that would apply to a woman working for Costco.

On the other hand, sometimes it's very easy, too.

As mentioned above, if someone is handy with a blade, you probably won't have seen it yet.

 

[DreamingNaiad]

Why would they have to "move out of her way" if she wasn't coming at them?

If they're "stepping aside", it's to let her pass. You chose those words.


Now she's not wandering aimlessly, she's coming at them? Can you at least attempt to keep your story straight?


You said they should "move out of her way", remember? Again, do you think there was no one else in the Costco? Let's recap your exact words!

Yep, I read it right the first time.


So they're simultaneously "leaving" but not "walking away"?


Try using words according to their commonly understood meanings.

I cant tell if you're trolling or not. You seem to have trouble following.

If you're wandering aimlessly you can end up in part if a room where there are other people. She could have even been walking towards the door.

Walking with your weapons down in a direction that happens to have other people there doesn't justify a shooting. If it happened like that the cops were wrong. If. Hypothetically. Not accusing anyone of anything. Just an example. Clear enough for you?

Once again I didn't say those cops should have stepped out of her way and let her wander off into a crowd. But if they don't want to be face to face with her then step aside and grab her AS SHE PASSES. Not letting her wander off into the night, is it?

And since you can't seem to grasp the simple English of my posts. The walking away thing was (once again, is this the third or fourth time I've explained it and you still can't/won't understand) me saying the police should walk away. I was addressing anyone who might try to bring up 'stand your ground' nonsense. A pre-emptive strike, if you will.

Way to use part of a post talking about something else (I would know, I wrote it and can in fact read it) to say I think the police should have let her wander off. Armed and thirsty for human blood too, I suppose. I don't know. You apparently "know" I'm thinking or saying something even when I don't.

They were in the same room. If she was just walking towards the door (not saying she was. Hypothetical. Look it up) they could have taken two steps to the side and grabbed her when her back was turned.

Now, if you believe even walking in their general direction justifies being shot that may be where you're getting confused. I'm not sure. I don't have your psychic gift and I have better things to do than explain the same thing over and over again to you.

In short, if she ran at them they did the right thing.

 

[triforcharity]

Just FYI letting a person within your bubble who's armed with a knife is not wise.

 

[Skibum]

Really?

Ok. I'll accept that in some cases it could be hard, and that a very twisted person could fake being inept.

I wonder how often that would apply to a woman working for Costco.

On the other hand, sometimes it's very easy, too.

You mean the woman who has been handling a knife on a regular basis at work for the past year and a half? Can't see how she wouldn't have picked up a few skills handling a blade in that time.....

 

[Noztradamus]

You mean the woman who has been handling a knife on a regular basis at work for the past year and a half? Can't see how she wouldn't have picked up a few skills handling a blade in that time.....

"Chefs do that" - Samantha Caine, The Long Kiss Goodnight