Miracle of the Shroud / Blood on the shroud

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hughfarey said:
No, not really; I'm still thinking that the little matter of where to snip the sample from seems not to have been decided - maybe not even thought about - until the scissors were waving. I'm trying to think of two hours worth of reasons for not deciding!
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Get back to us with that when you have something.
 
Jabba said:
Originally Posted by Jabba
Hugh,
- Putting aside your analogy for the moment, you seem to be saying that really objective scientists most-concerned-with-determining-the-real-date-of-the-shroud might prefer to test numerous pieces of it from numerous locations rather than test one small piece from an oft handled corner.
- If so, so far, this is where I would disagree -- I think that truly objective scientists would have clearly preferred multiple samples (several?) from multiple locations.



HighRiser,
- It confused me as well.
- I guess that hilites don't get transferred in quotes. The original statement comes from post #7494. In the first sentence "might" was hilited, in the second sentence, "clearly preferred” was hilited. Hugh was saying that objective scientists might prefer multiple samples from multiple locations, while I was saying that they would clearly prefer multiple samples from multiple locations. That’s the difference.
--- Jabba
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Ok, thanks. What do you base the 'clearly prefer' conclusion on?
 
Jabba said:
Ward,
- But apparently 1) it was displayed hundreds of times over the centuries; 2) when displayed it was held by men; and 3) that was one of the corners always held. I'll be asking Russ Breault about that.
--- Jabba
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If Russ Breault is any kind of authority, he will not be thanking you for injecting his name into this ridiculous conversation.
 
I just want to thank many of the posters here - Dinwar specifically, but many others as well, as this particular thread has really increased my knowledge of C14 testing, field work, general scientific method stuff, etc. When the thread started, I was not totally convinced on the 1400 (aprox) date, but now I'm as close to 100% as I ever get that the shroud , as interesting an artifact as it is, could not have been made before the c14 date.

Reading Jabba's posts are so, so frustrating and sad (at the same time), but everyone else has my thanks!
 
Jabba said:
Ward,
- But apparently 1) it was displayed hundreds of times over the centuries; 2) when displayed it was held by men; and 3) that was one of the corners always held. I'll be asking Russ Breault about that.
--- Jabba
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Who is Russ Breault? Let's Google his name...

Oh dear. Really? Seriously?

The "CSI Jerusalem" sidebar is a priceless bonus.
 
Alleyprowler said:
Who is Russ Breault? Let's Google his name...

Oh dear. Really? Seriously?

The "CSI Jerusalem" sidebar is a priceless bonus.
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Oh, I browsed his site, and what came across most strongly to me was his Authenticity, Energy, and Seemingly limitless enthusiasm for the Miracle-Of-Making-The-Most-Mulah-From-The-Most-Gullible! >MMMM! to make shorter in a response to Jabba's self admitted memory issue<

Yea!! truly I say reading some of his work was like unto the Breath Of The Forever Risen But God Forgot To Raise On The 1st Day Christ >commonly called B.O.T.F.R.B.G.F.T.R.O.T.1.D.C again, for the sake of my poor memory<

I simply cannot wait to hear what new, exciting info about him Jabba has for us!

That is - I won't bother waiting at all.

:D
 
Alleyprowler said:
Who is Russ Breault? Let's Google his name...

Oh dear. Really? Seriously?

The "CSI Jerusalem" sidebar is a priceless bonus.
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And the military presentations, one in Schofield Barracks.

And the marketing materials
http://shroudencounter.com/marketingmaterials.php

I looked through the shop, but he doesn't have the Shroud leggings in stock. :(



abaddon said:
...Somehow, a patch was made which nobody could detect, ever. Somehow, 700 years later, scientists and textile experts were guided to that invisible patch, that nobody could detect, to oddly take their sample from that very same spot that nobody could detect. Having been directed to that invisible and undetectable spot, they then proceeded to test the sample of...something, and get the wrong result. What they should have done is take wholesale chunks out of whatever areas Jabba decides are appropriate, ruining the artefact in the process. And when that wanton destruction destroys the relic, Jabba will simply claim it was done wrong, secure in the knowledge that the thing is destroyed and there is nothing left to test.
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So the spider at the centre of the conspiracy web is Jabba?
I hope Umberto Eco is taking notes!
 
John Jones said:
If Russ Breault is any kind of authority, he will not be thanking you for injecting his name into this ridiculous conversation.
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pakeha said:
And the military presentations, one in Schofield Barracks.

And the marketing materials
http://shroudencounter.com/marketingmaterials.php

I looked through the shop, but he doesn't have the Shroud leggings in stock. :(
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Nope RB is just your basic right-wing evangelical catholic using the shroud to make money off the gullible. He repeats the same long since debunked crap that Jabba parrots so repetitively.
 
catsmate1 said:
Nope RB is just your basic right-wing evangelical catholic using the shroud to make money off the gullible. He repeats the same long since debunked crap that Jabba parrots so repetitively.
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Yeah.
What a terrible shop that was!
Not even an eyeshadow line based on the colours of the TS.
No lippies.
No blushes.
No shimmery highlighters.

What kind of a shop is that?
 
Sample Selection

HighRiser said:
Ok, thanks. What do you base the 'clearly prefer' conclusion on?
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HighRiser,
- There is so much chance of getting a sample that is not representative of the greater shroud if you sample only one small location.
--- Jabba
 
Jabba said:
HighRiser,
- There is so much chance of getting a sample that is not representative of the greater shroud if you sample only one small location.
--- Jabba
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Explain, please, how any random section of a woven cloth is not representative of the whole. You do understand how weaving works, don't you?
 
Jabba said:
HighRiser,
- There is so much chance of getting a sample that is not representative of the greater shroud if you sample only one small location.
--- Jabba
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Rich:

Please explain why ignoring the posts of so many people is not disrespectful...

Please address the 1978 (?) STURP photographs indicating features that continue uninterrupted across the area where the "invisible patch" would have needed to have been.

Please address the materials from which an "invisible patch" would have had to have been constructed, and how much material would have been needed, for the "invisible patch" to produce a medieval date in an actual first century artifact.
 
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Jabba said:
HighRiser,
- There is so much chance of getting a sample that is not representative of the greater shroud if you sample only one small location.
--- Jabba
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Well, I guess it was a good thing they chose a spot that did not have any patch or non-representative material.

(see my comments above about how this was the best place to select to avoid an "invisible patch")
 
John Jones said:
Do you think that Jabba can recognize when someone like yourself is having a bit of a laugh at his expense?
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I spent many posts examining in minute detail some of the 'anti-authenticists' claims about peer-reviewed papers, contamination and so on before coming to the conclusion that they were probably right. On another site I have spent many posts examining the claims of the 'authenticists.' Little details of fact are what I specialise in, regardless of the side they support, and although I enjoy doing it, I certainly don't try to do it at anyone's expense.

John Jones said:
Get back to us with that when you have something.
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Anyone got the video?
 
Jabba said:
HighRiser,
- There is so much chance of getting a sample that is not representative of the greater shroud if you sample only one small location.
--- Jabba
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This would be true if you or I had taken the sample, since neither of us knows jack about textiles. But the people who did the sampling WEREN'T woefully ignorant of the item they were sampling from, and they DID know how to determine which spots were good to sample from and which ones weren't. The only ways they could have wound up with a bad sample and not specifically called it out as such are if A)they were incompetent to a degree that should ruin their professional careers, or B) they lied, which should also ruin their professional careers.

So there are your choices: they were incompetent, they lied, or the sample is representative of the greater shroud. Of those three, only one has any evidence supporting it (hint, it's not one of the first two).
 
I had never heard of Breault until Jabba mentioned him, so I did a quick perusal of his website. It takes almost no time at all to realize he is some combination of conman, liar, and fool.

Quick and easy example: Under "Military Presentations" he lists West Point Military Academy. I will check later to see if this actually even happened, but for now it is sufficient to say that no such place exists. It is the United States Military Academy.

Then under "University Presentations" he lists West Point University. Again, no such place exists. It is the United States Military Academy. Sometimes the extension "at West Point" is added, but it isn't part of the name.

So Breault gives conflicting names for one of the world's premier military institutions (as well as one of the U.S.'s better engineering schools) and gets it egregiously wrong both times.
 
Garrette said:
I had never heard of Breault until Jabba mentioned him, so I did a quick perusal of his website. It takes almost no time at all to realize he is some combination of conman, liar, and fool.

Quick and easy example: Under "Military Presentations" he lists West Point Military Academy. I will check later to see if this actually even happened, but for now it is sufficient to say that no such place exists. It is the United States Military Academy.

Then under "University Presentations" he lists West Point University. Again, no such place exists. It is the United States Military Academy. Sometimes the extension "at West Point" is added, but it isn't part of the name.

So Breault gives conflicting names for one of the world's premier military institutions (as well as one of the U.S.'s better engineering schools) and gets it egregiously wrong both times.
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How embarrassing.
 
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