Sheriff Joe Arapio slapped down by judge.

[newyorkguy]

Cops like to keep people off balance. I guess it's a policing technique. You ramp up the pressure and see if people start sweating. And of course they want to search your car! They want to find something to justify their salaries.



They are not voluntary in my neck of the woods. Maybe the fact that everyone is stopped serves as some defense against profiling.



I don't think being intimidating is seen as a negative in police work, and apparently they don't mind looking like jerks on videotape.

(I love the way some people are so happy to just completely surrender their rights at the first opportunity. "Hey they violated my rights, it was fine!")

Anyway, we're talking about two different things here. And I apologize for bringing this in, but it was to make the point that the Fourth Amendment, given the ramping up of security, is under attack as never before my memory.

What are not voluntary in your neck of the woods? I'm talking about Border Patrol Interior Checkpoints. Did you look at the link?

Similarly, the Court invalidated an automobile search at a fixed checkpoint well removed from the border; while agreeing that a fixed checkpoint probably gave motorists less cause for alarm than did roving patrols, the Court nonetheless held that the invasion of privacy entailed in a search was just as intrusive and must be justified by a showing of probable cause or consent.

Link to SCOTUS ruling

These are not legal stops. Instead, the Border Patrol asks people to cooperate in order to help them catch illegal immigrants. Some Americans just want to go on their way. They don't want to help. They're supposed to have that right. But as the link I posted earlier clearly shows, once law enforcement gets a foot in the door, they themselves don't always follow the law.

My point is, this is what makes the Joe Arapios so potentially dangerous. A lot of people say, 'Oh who cares, they're not going to do anything to me.' It usually turns out they eventually do.

 

[TubbaBlubba]

I assume the same arguments would go if Arpaio was trying to profile Jews.

 

[Minoosh]

What are not voluntary in your neck of the woods? I'm talking about Border Patrol Interior Checkpoints.

In Arizona there are stop signs on the freeway - you don't have any choice but to stop. The Border Patrol eyeballs you and the car and waves you through ... or, doesn't. They've never asked me if I want to help catch illegal immigrants!

I'll look at the link.

My point is, this is what makes the Joe Arapios so potentially dangerous. A lot of people say, 'Oh who cares, they're not going to do anything to me.' It usually turns out they eventually do.

I don't know if the feds have some special Fourth Amendment dispensation for the checkpoint, but I've always assumed when rolling through that yes, they could "do something to me:" Search my car. It functions like another layer of customs, 15-20 miles from the border itself. Shuttle companies are routinely stopped and I'm sure big vehicles get extra attention. Also there are dogs.

There it's about national security but where Arpaio is, it's theater. He's playing to suburban Phoenix constituents in a county that is getting browner, and demographics will be shifting from his ilk.

 

[newyorkguy]

In Arizona there are stop signs on the freeway - you don't have any choice but to stop. The Border Patrol eyeballs you and the car and waves you through ... or, doesn't. They've never asked me if I want to help catch illegal immigrants!

I don't know if the feds have some special Fourth Amendment dispensation for the checkpoint, but I've always assumed when rolling through that yes, they could "do something to me:"

This is even worse than I thought. Franklin was right.

We no longer deserve liberty. And we have precious little of it left. All because of people who want to sneak over the border and mow lawns. Some tradeoff.

 

[Minoosh]

This is even worse than I thought. Franklin was right.

We no longer deserve liberty. And we have precious little of it left. All because of people who want to sneak over the border and mow lawns. Some tradeoff.

What Franklin said sounds noble and all, but apply common sense here. We accept tradeoffs of freedom and liberty all the time.

How do Americans have precious little liberty left? If the dog sniffs my car and they check my trunk - so what? I'm on my way, as long as I haven't inadvertently stowed contraband on board. I don't really like it, but what liberty have I lost?

 

[RandFan]

What Franklin said sounds noble and all, but apply common sense here. We accept tradeoffs of freedom and liberty all the time.

Of course but Franklin was no dummy. He made certain to qualify his premises to ensure there would be no mistake that there would be trade offs. His point was trading "essential liberty" for a "little temporary safety". That's not a good deal IMO and I suspect others as well.

 

[TubbaBlubba]

Of course but Franklin was no dummy. He made certain to qualify his premises to ensure there would be no mistake that there would be trade offs. His point was trading "essential liberty" for a "little temporary safety". That's not a good deal IMO and I suspect others as well.

I think Frankling was largely referring to very dramatic situations. The French resistance in WWII comes to mind.

I agree with the sentiment to a point, but there really is a line beyond which resistance is futile.

 

[RandFan]

I think Frankling was largely referring to very dramatic situations. The French resistance in WWII comes to mind.

I agree with the sentiment to a point, but there really is a line beyond which resistance is futile.

Someone once mocked Franklin by saying, those who would give up a little of their hot dog for some ketchup deserve neither hot dog or ketchup. Something like that.

 

[Checkmite]

I sympathize with the sentiment; but if we're being honest, you don't have to give up any amount of hot dog for some ketchup.

 

[newyorkguy]

<snip>
If the dog sniffs my car and they check my trunk - so what? I'm on my way, as long as I haven't inadvertently stowed contraband on board. I don't really like it, but what liberty have I lost?

Do the police have any reason to believe you have contraband?

I want the police to leave me alone.

The police can put up roadblocks to see if maybe you've been drinking. The police can put up roadblocks to see if you "look like an American." You fly a plane you have to submit to a search. In many big cities if the police want to stop and frisk you, they can. On public property without any grounds whatsoever.

Conservative Republicans are turning this country into a genteel police state. We're all guilty until we can prove we're innocent. In today's climate Richard Nixon would be considered way too liberal.

You know there was a time when conservatives felt, as law-abiding citizens, when someone wants to know who you are or where you're going, the proper answer was, "None of your damn business!"

A liberal is a conservative who's been arrested.

 

[SezMe]

How do Americans have precious little liberty left? If the dog sniffs my car and they check my trunk - so what? I'm on my way, as long as I haven't inadvertently stowed contraband on board. I don't really like it, but what liberty have I lost?

Actually, this is a good example. Dogs have a horrible false positive rate. If it alerts, you're in for a really bad time. You could be arrested, car impounded and jailed. At the very least you're out a wad of dough to get it straightened out.

The liberty you have lost is the warrent-based search and seizure. Don't let it go so lightly.

 

[thaiboxerken]

If they're here illegally than they're guilty of at least one law. Presumption of innocence need not apply.

I suspect most drivers in the USA are guilty of speeding, therefore presumption of innocence need not apply to them either.

 

[thaiboxerken]

I have never consciously broken the law, no.

I doubt it.

 

[RandFan]

If they're here illegally than they're guilty of at least one law. Presumption of innocence need not apply.

That must first be proven and not presumed.

 

[applecorped]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/...-arpaio-recall-fails-20130530,0,7548060.story

"Despite a recent court ruling that the department run by Maricopa County’s top cop used racial profiling in his quest to crack down on illegal immigration, a recall effort against Sheriff Joe Arpaio has failed. On Thursday, members of Respect Arizona and Citizens for a Better Arizona -- who launched the recall effort against Arpaio -- failed to gather the necessary 335,000 valid voter signatures by the 5 p.m. deadline. The aim was to force a recall election."


Good Ol' Uncle Joe!

 

[RandFan]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/...-arpaio-recall-fails-20130530,0,7548060.story

"Despite a recent court ruling that the department run by Maricopa County’s top cop used racial profiling in his quest to crack down on illegal immigration, a recall effort against Sheriff Joe Arpaio has failed. On Thursday, members of Respect Arizona and Citizens for a Better Arizona -- who launched the recall effort against Arpaio -- failed to gather the necessary 335,000 valid voter signatures by the 5 p.m. deadline. The aim was to force a recall election."


Good Ol' Uncle Joe!

Stupid is as stupid does. I wonder if his cold case pose has infiltrated the Hawaii registrars office yet.

Sheriff Joe injects new life into Obama eligibility

Not much dumber things than birthers. Joe is their leader.

 

[RandFan]

The GOP crazy train. Cheer for killing. Cheer for homophobia. Cheer for those who die for lack of insurance. Now they are too apathetic to get rid of someone who is clearly a nut job of the highest order.

Gotta love 'em.

 

[NWO Sentryman]

I wonder how Joe is going to react to the Demographic shift that is taking place in the US.

 

[newyorkguy]

What I find almost bizarre is, the Latino population in Arizona, where people of color already make up more than 40 percent of the population, is increasing. By 2030 fully 25% of Arizona residents are expected to be of Hispanic descent.

How is this supposed to effect Arizona politics? According to Mike Hellon a former Arizona GOP state chairman:

"The demographics clearly are moving in the direction of a more mainstream, moderate body politic," says Hellon, the former state GOP chairman, "but that hasn't translated yet into major changes on Election Day."

Link

So as Arizona becomes more Hispanic the state's politics are expected to become more mainstream. Quite an irony.

 

[applecorped]

Cheer for killing. Cheer for homophobia. Cheer for those who die for lack of insurance.

I'd love to see a video of GOP members cheering for the above. Got a link?