You insist the scientists were both biased and unwilling to control for bias. ... Further, you choose to continue misrepresenting the actual science. ... You do this while ... calling all the scientists in question liars and incompetent fools.
I didn't notice this in Jabba's last post.
You are, quite frankly, a waste of time that could have been spent better elsewhere. Why should we listen to you, explain things to you, or deal with you, given that you've dealt with everyone in this extremely dishonest fashion?
If you don't want to engage with Jabba, then don't. If you do, you must do so on his terms to make him understand your point of view.
Oh, let me help: the Shroud of Turin is a medieval fake. Make no mistake: NO ONE in this thread, at this point, cares what you think. Your only option at this point is to admit it's a fake and move on. The Shroud is a very interesting artifact in itself, but your dishonesty is just making this discussion silly.
You are entirely deluded. No one here agrees with ANY of your points. You have already been told why. Your dishonesty is just embarassing.
I notice confusion and disbelief, but not dishonesty or lies.
Their other choice was to say "this does not meet the necessary standards, and thus is not viable for testing." The reason they accepted the sample wasn't that they "had no other choice", but that it was a valid sample.
They were all well aware, and said so, that the place was less than ideal, but indeed decided that it was a valid sample. In spite of the 'two hour argument,' I think most, probably all, of them knew where the sample would be cut. Their opportunity to pull out at the last minute was limited, but I don't think 'no other choice' really sums up the situation at the time.
The only people still holding out for a first century date are those who are being wilfully blind to reality, or lying to themselves. As these people tend to be Christians, perhaps they should ask themselves if their God or their Jesus approves of living a lie like that. I'm sure I've read something about false witness in that Bible of theirs... oh, and there is always John 8:32.
I don't think that's fair to the majority of Christians, and certainly doesn't accord with my own changing beliefs. Anybody who accepts a C14 dating without any reservations at all is not being a responsible scientist, and I have never read a C14 dating report on anything in which the scientists themselves don't discuss the possibilities of error, and attempt to account for them. The Nature article was no exception. Most Christians, not being scientists, get their information from the press, whose principal task is to sway opinion. Having established that the shroud was a fake until the beginning of the century, the press then rejoiced in every discovery that indicated it was real. Having established it was real, the 1988 dating gave them a wonderful opportunity to establish it as a fake. Now a news report that the shroud is a fake is stale news, so only reports that it is real after all gain any prominence. Giulio Fanti and the radiation men are climbing the popular press ladder for the moment, and if they ever achieve general credulity, then no doubt the next bombshell will firmly establish that it is a fake again. Any Christian who doesn't much care one way or the other could be forgiven for coming down on the 1st century side simply on the basis of 'what he read in the paper.'
If you have followed my own efforts to decide one way or the other, you will have seen that I was not wilfully blind or lying to myself, or living a lie, and I guess most other Christians aren't either.
5. The shroud is a marvellous piece of art, and should be appreciated for what it is - a 14th century artefact - and not be regarded as something which it is not.
Well there I agree with you entirely.
I didn't read it, except for the last sentence. It's a waste of time talking to you about this. HTH
But not a waste of time telling him it's a waste of time? Weird.
As you're aware there are a number of errors, or rather deliberate lies, in this mass of nonsense. We've covered this before and I don't see any reason to waste my time further indulging you.
So what is your reason for telling Jabba that there isn't any reason for wasting your time?
Your opinion is far less than worthless.
If this means anything, it means that Jabba's opinion actually strengthens the case of those whose views are the opposite of his. Good for him!
I had thought to do a point by point rebuttal, but that would be a waste of time, because you simply would not read it, and would regurgitate the same rubbish again as though no rebuttal was made.
Me too. And I did. See above. I wouldn't waste my time telling people I was wasting my time telling people I was wasting my time telling people......
Or maybe I'm going slightly mad; oh well it's a nice morning for it......
