Continuation Part 5: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[RandyN]

Bruce Budowle did something else. He polluted the Vechiotti-Conti report.
The one I believe corrupts are Vecchiotti and Conti; Budowle instead took part to a crime - and there is evidence of this - which was to cooperate with Vecchiotti and Conti, basically helping them to write their report.

Yea good luck with that one...one of the most respected DNA experts in the world...the man responsible for setting up the DNA program for the FBI according to you "polluted" the C&V report.

And yet Stefanoni who is not anything close to an expert and is just a technician with a 4 year degree somehow didn't pollute her whole exam?

The evidence of the crime will be found to be committed by Stefanoni likely at the behest of her boss Biondo...It is already provable that she has lied in several courts. She has withheld discovery data from the defense and from the independent experts...

But the clock is ticking now...this time the frauds will be revealed. The experts such as Budowle will be the fans that blow the smokescreen away from the corruption of Italy. The fraud is Mignini.

Do you consider it illegal for C and V to use reference material and publications and world wide standards in completing their report? What in the law prevents them from seeking different opinions? Expert opinions.

Was it illegal for Biondo to certify that he checked Stefanonis work and found it perfect?

 

[RandyN]

How did they know it was unknown poo? She didn't try flushing it, maybe it was Filomena's and the toilet broke, how would she know. How did she even see it in the first place, she shouldn't have even been in that room, the blow dryer was in the laundry room next to the bathroom on the bench, and the plug in and mirror are next to the washer, even further away.

She has a nose.

The poo was not important until she "thought" it had gone missing when she and RS returned...this scared the crap (errr sorry) out of her since she now assumed the pooper must still be there or very near anyway.

 

[RandyN]

Like I said, I don't know, it's a puzzle, we don't know all the reasons, all Raff did in the room was check to see if she was alive I would think, maybe he took his shoes off before hand this time and did step in blood in the room, hopped on his other foot to the bathroom and left the bloody foot print we all know about.

Well sure except for the fact that the bath mat print is a much better match to Guedes foot. And that he likely stepped there when he was rinsing off his pants and shoes...

He testifies to having wet pants when he leaves and he covers them with something...his jacket ...whatever.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Well sure except for the fact that the bath mat print is a much better match to Guedes foot. And that he likely stepped there when he was rinsing off his pants and shoes...

He testifies to having wet pants when he leaves and he covers them with something...his jacket ...whatever.

Well, you have to admit the bath mat print doesn't make a lot of sense regardless who left it. Why is the blood only on the mat, if it came from his pant legs, shouldn't there be some major drops between Meredith's room and the mat if there was that much blood. If you ask me, it would seem more likely if someone stepped in blood with a sock on and hopped to the mat where they took it off and washed it out.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

no sale

There would have to be blood on a knife that was used in a murder which would have to be cleaned off. How can the blood be cleaned off without removing DNA? Unless one cleans with a solution of the same composition as cells, the cells will burst under osmotic shock. Detergent will help to dissolve the lipid membranes of any human cell, weakening it and probably making the process of breaking them easier. Once the cell is broken down, the DNA will be more susceptible to nucleases in the environment. Yet the DNA in the knife electropherogram shows no sign of random degradation. Sorry, not buying it. I think that Dr. Budowle is correct.

 

[Bill Williams]

I have no idea how to do that, but I have done this so many times, I do it once more just for you. It would certainly take too long to go over everything, so I'll give you some key points and if you have any questions, I'll answer them.

-Amanda left Raff to go home, get the mop and likely change so their now free evening, they could do something, they now had the next 3 days off.
-Amanda runs into Rudi at the ball court, they talk, Rudi has to use a washroom and Amanda offers hers.
-Meredith may already be home but while Rudi is in the washroom, Amanda and Meredith get into an argument, maybe about Rudi being there, maybe Meredith is missing money, few know, but Rudi comes to Amanda's defense and a fight ensures, Meredith is stronger than Rudi thinks.
-Amanda has to put her hands over her ears to drown out the screaming and 'thuds', she is in the kitchen.
-Amanda runs to Raff's to get help, Rudi has scared the **** out of here, but she doesn't think Meredith's life is in danger, but Rudi is assaulting her, physically. Raff grabs the biggest knife in his drawer and follows Amanda to the cottage.
-Amanda too scared to go in, stays outside while Raff goes in, (hence her clever prose during the appeal where she states that this is the first time the three of them have been under the same roof)
-Raff confronts Rudi in the living room, 'black man found, black man guilty' and then he runs out the door because he is no hero.
-Raff and Amanda leave together, see by Rudi thru Filameno's window. They go to the park where they are seen by Toto the hobo and discuss what to do next while Raff try to keep an eye on the cottage gate to see when Rudi leaves.

This is enough for now, questions I suppose.....

I need to rein in the incredulity a bit because you have been kind enough to do this when asked. First reaction is that there is no evidence for this and it belies belief that this would be "what they know but arenot telling anyone," esp with their phones tapped and conversations monitored. Why they simply wouldn't call the police is telling. ...

But you've been kind enough to give it a go. Thanks. But there's no real particular reason, really, to think this happened.

 

[codyjuneau]

I'm no fan of Stefaphony.

.
Grinder, show some respect.

She is Pseudoctor Stefaphony please

(for our lurker friends, in Italy, non doctors are allowed to call themselves Doctors, and they do, seriously!)

 

[codyjuneau]

.
Sherlock, kudos for giving it a go.

Personally I think the story is ludicrous, but at least you had the guts to offer some kind of scenario for your PPG (Pro Partially Guilty) theory. That is more than any PG person seems to have the nerve to do.

 

[RWVBWL]

Some random thoughts...

Meredith Kercher did not have anal sex with a dude that she barely liked+ was having casual sex with for only 10 days.

SHE liked Giacomo,
alot...


I don't know about you dude's here on The JREF,
but I've never been intimate with a gal who gave up the arsse unless she really, really liked me.
For after a coupla years of "dating",
my gal, well she knew me,
I was"'in luv", + her arsse,
her whole beautiful body,
was mine...


Esh,
I hada 'nother gal,
1 that promised that if I married her,
her arsse would be mine,
well, that chick, well she changed her mind,
she gotta bit worried, as she didn't want to have any painfull experiences on her weddin' night, + even though, I promised, I gotsta tell ya, that I told her it was gonna be ok, I'd be gen-tile, well her mind was made up, that promise went out the door. We never did get married, that of which I, nowadays, am very glad about. +No, I ain't gonna post any pix of these 2 beautiful gals that I have luved,
but the stories are real:
NO girl gives up the boooty if she don't really, really like or heck, love the dude!

Meredith really, really liked Giacomo,
heck, if I recall correctly, her last text message to him said how excited she was gonna be to see him when he got home from.
Right?...




Contrary to what Grinder +/or Frank Sfarzo think,
Rudy Guede did not have a date whatesoever with Meredith Kercher trhe night she was murdered.

If Meredith wanted to get "laid,
on a 1 night stand, she would have done it then, that night, or early morning, on Halloween...


In this day+age,
no girl that wants to get laid right then "makes" an appointment to meet up the next evening,
at her own apartment, which she shares with 3 other women, who might or might not be home that next evening,
with a dude who does not even have a cell phone.

They make it happen, right then, or right there!
Or head over to his place, then,
right?

How the heck would Meredith even know that it would be safe to cheat on her boyfriend,
that it'd be ok to have Guede-o over to her flat, the dude she met downstairs,
some 24 hours later?

How was Meredith to know, for sure that every single 1 of her other 3 housemates would still be outta the flat, and she could then get her luvin' on???
Can you imagine Laura quickly stoppin' by her flat to pick some clean clothing up to wear on Friday, and then:
"Hey Filo, I saw a black dude comin' outta Meredith's bedroom, what's up with that?
I thought Mez was bangin' that white dude in that band from downstairs?"...


Wait a sec,
I gotsta wonder:
How did Meredith even communicate with Guede-o?
Flirt with him for a sec on the basketball court?
Give him a wink as she passed him by, surrounded by frinds?
Pass him a dirty note on the basketball court or in the Town Square?

Meredith,
who had 2 cell phones,
never called, texted, emailed or Skyped Rudy Guede...
She did though, text Giacomo on her last day alive,
saying how excited she was to see him when he got home...


Need I go on?
Meredith Kercher,
in my humble opinion,
was not some lil hoochie gal
who, while her "boyfriend " was outta town,
made a "date" with "his friend" Rudy Guede to come over her place
+
then give him oral pleasure...

 

[anglolawyer]

I have no idea how to do that, but I have done this so many times, I do it once more just for you. It would certainly take too long to go over everything, so I'll give you some key points and if you have any questions, I'll answer them.

-Amanda left Raff to go home, get the mop and likely change so their now free evening, they could do something, they now had the next 3 days off.
-Amanda runs into Rudi at the ball court, they talk, Rudi has to use a washroom and Amanda offers hers.
-Meredith may already be home but while Rudi is in the washroom, Amanda and Meredith get into an argument, maybe about Rudi being there, maybe Meredith is missing money, few know, but Rudi comes to Amanda's defense and a fight ensures, Meredith is stronger than Rudi thinks.
-Amanda has to put her hands over her ears to drown out the screaming and 'thuds', she is in the kitchen.
-Amanda runs to Raff's to get help, Rudi has scared the **** out of here, but she doesn't think Meredith's life is in danger, but Rudi is assaulting her, physically. Raff grabs the biggest knife in his drawer and follows Amanda to the cottage.
-Amanda too scared to go in, stays outside while Raff goes in, (hence her clever prose during the appeal where she states that this is the first time the three of them have been under the same roof)
-Raff confronts Rudi in the living room, 'black man found, black man guilty' and then he runs out the door because he is no hero.
-Raff and Amanda leave together, see by Rudi thru Filameno's window. They go to the park where they are seen by Toto the hobo and discuss what to do next while Raff try to keep an eye on the cottage gate to see when Rudi leaves.

This is enough for now, questions I suppose.....

So, in short, you think they're innocent too.

 

[Mary_H]

NO girl gives up the boooty if she don't really, really like or heck, love the dude!

A valuable life lesson.

 

[Mary_H]

How did they know it was unknown poo? She didn't try flushing it, maybe it was Filomena's and the toilet broke, how would she know. How did she even see it in the first place, she shouldn't have even been in that room, the blow dryer was in the laundry room next to the bathroom on the bench, and the plug in and mirror are next to the washer, even further away.

It's interesting the investigators have never said anything about finding any of Amanda's hair in the bathroom where blew her hair dry. I would assume everyone loses a few hairs in the drying and combing process. Maybe there was too much hair and other DNA in there to run tests on.

 

[PhantomWolf]

-Amanda left Raff to go home, get the mop and likely change so their now free evening, they could do something, they now had the next 3 days off.

The obvious question is "Evidence?" You have Amanda walking/running between Raff's and the Cottage a total of four times, and yet the ILE went through the security footage of the cameras between the two places and never found any sign of them. How did they manage to travel back and forth four times, likely running at least twice, and no-one saw them and no cameras captured them doing this?

-Amanda runs into Rudi at the ball court, they talk, Rudi has to use a washroom and Amanda offers hers.

How do they talk? Let's assume that Rudy comes up to Amanda wanting the bathroom, she speaks poor faltering Italian, he doesn't speak English at all. How do they manage to communicate so well?

-Meredith may already be home but while Rudi is in the washroom, Amanda and Meredith get into an argument, maybe about Rudi being there, maybe Meredith is missing money, few know, but Rudi comes to Amanda's defense and a fight ensures, Meredith is stronger than Rudi thinks.

There is a lot going on here. Firstly, we know that Rudy drank from a carton of Orange Juice. When did he do this in your timeline? I find it hard to believe he did it after the attack and not even someone with terrible manners is going to grab a carton and drink from it in someone else's home when the owners are right there. For me this would only happen if the owners were not there, so done when Rudy was alone, but the only time you have him alone is during the attack.

Next we have Amanda and Meredith arguing. The only evidence for this is from Rudy, not exactly a reliable source. He also claims that the two were arguing in Italian, which is how he knew what they were saying. Trouble is again, Amanda's Italian was extremely poor and if she and Meredith were arguing it would be far more logical that they would do so in the language that was native to them both, English.

Then you have Rudy jumping off the toilet and attacking Meredith because..... Well really there is no reason, the action is totally irrational. Rudy has zero reason to intervene even if Amanda and Meredith were arguing. There is also no evidence of an attack in the lounge, so Rudy would have had to jump off the loo in the other wing, run through the lounge, down the hallway passed Amanda and into Meredith's room to attack her. This makes zero sense no matter how you slice it.

-Amanda has to put her hands over her ears to drown out the screaming and 'thuds', she is in the kitchen.

So rather then telling Rudy to stop, or attacking him for attacking her friend, or calling the police and telling them a visitor has gone loco (which he'd have to do to attack Meredith in the first place in this scenario) she walks/runs back to the Kitchen, puts her hands over her ears, and prays that Rudy doesn't come after her next?

-Amanda runs to Raff's to get help, Rudi has scared the **** out of here, but she doesn't think Meredith's life is in danger, but Rudi is assaulting her, physically. Raff grabs the biggest knife in his drawer and follows Amanda to the cottage.

So suddenly getting a rush of courage, instead of running back to help her friend and tell Rudy to get out, or grab the phone and call the police all while yelling that she is calling the police, Amanda flees and rather then getting help from a nearby home, she runs all the way back to Raff's.

Raff, instead of getting one of his many combat style knives, gets a kitchen knife and then instead of calling the police asking them to meet them back at the Cottage, they just run back to try and do....

-Amanda too scared to go in, stays outside while Raff goes in, (hence her clever prose during the appeal where she states that this is the first time the three of them have been under the same roof)

Apparently nothing, well from Amanda's part because she's so scared that she ran all the way back to the Cottage with Raff, but won't go in. Really? If she was too scared to go back in with Raff, why would she be willing to go back to the Cottage at all? Make a little bit of sense, please.

-Raff confronts Rudi in the living room, 'black man found, black man guilty' and then he runs out the door because he is no hero.

So brave enough to go in to confront Rudi, that courage dissolves when he actually confronts him, despite being armed. And why would he say "black man found, black man guilty" if he had no idea what had happened at this point, and clearly Rudy was guilty of whatever had happened?

-Raff and Amanda leave together, see by Rudi thru Filameno's window.

And again they fail to get help, and worse, Rudy knows that they know he just killed someone and both can identify him, but rather than dealing with them, or running, he stays, and then when he does leave he goes dancing before finally fleeing. How does this make any sense?

They go to the park where they are seen by Toto the hobo and discuss what to do next while Raff try to keep an eye on the cottage gate to see when Rudi leaves.

The problem here is that you are trying to incorporate Toto's testimony which has been pretty well destroyed. The man was high on Heroin and clearly couldn't tell what was going on or even which night was which. Building your theory on testimony that is as stable as a jello in an earthquake is not a sane idea.

This is enough for now, questions I suppose.....

Sure, have you got anything that actually makes some sort of sense to anyone except those desperate to make a story fit or those that are insane? You know, like one that real rational humans might actually follow and not poorly scripted puppets?

 

[anglolawyer]

It's interesting the investigators have never said anything about finding any of Amanda's hair in the bathroom where blew her hair dry. I would assume everyone loses a few hairs in the drying and combing process. Maybe there was too much hair and other DNA in there to run tests on.

That is interesting, as is the whole thing with fibres and hair. Sometimes I think Stef just didn't complete that course.

 

[codyjuneau]

So, in short, you think they're innocent too.

.
You're right anglo. Sherlock is not a PPGP he is a PPIP.

 

[Kaosium]

Bruce Budowle did something else. He polluted the Vechiotti-Conti report.
The one I believe corrupts are Vecchiotti and Conti; Budowle instead took part to a crime - and there is evidence of this - which was to cooperate with Vecchiotti and Conti, basically helping them to write their report.

What evidence is there outside the citation?

Anyway, the most plausible explanation is were just about any honest competent scientist presented with that DNA work they'd denounce it too, that's not a crime at all, it's science. That's why there's so many who've spoken out against it; for the ones who care about the integrity and standards of the field Stefanoni's 'work' is an abomination.

If producing a picture with a profile on it is all that matters, why all the nonsense about scientific standards, using those expensive machines and having an education and learning all those complicated words?

Why don't we just let her draw the electropherograms in crayon?

 

[anglolawyer]

What evidence is there outside the citation?

Anyway, the most plausible explanation is were just about any honest competent scientist presented with that DNA work they'd denounce it too, that's not a crime at all, it's science. That's why there's so many who've spoken out against it; for the ones who care about the integrity and standards of the field Stefanoni's 'work' is an abomination.

If producing a picture with a profile on it is all that matters, why all the nonsense about scientific standards, using those expensive machines and having an education and learning all those complicated words?

Why don't we just let her draw the electropherograms in crayon?

Kaosium

Do you remember the other day giving me a link to the nice, clear egrams at IIP after I linked you to the ones in the C-V report (that look as though they were made in crayon)? Do you know how the nice ones were generated and what their source is?

I ask because I wonder whether she deliberately sent barely legible egrams in some kind of huff. I offer an alternative theory for the suppression of EDFs and controls: indignation. We could be witnessing an extended and childish spat rather than cynical suppression.

I offer this idea in the same spirit as Grinder's Locard theory in Filomena's room - a possibility I don't personally believe.

 

[Antony]

Plus, if anything, I'm say more of the evidence fits my theory than the one the PIP's believe in.

Sorry, Sherlock, this is just bluster. I don't see the slightest evidence to support your theory - less, in fact, than the PG one.

For example, the PGP claim that the disputed DNA reading indicates that Raff's kitchen knife was involved in the murder. Your theory has it being brought to the cottage on the night of the murder, but not being used to kill Meredith. If the DNA isn't evidence of the killing, then it's not evidence of the knife being there at the time.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Here's my theory on what happened.

Around 8:30pm Rudy arrives at the cottage (From CCTV footage), most likely to see the guys downstairs. He's broke and looking to score some pot for free from them (We know he was broke and that the guys downstairs were growing dope plants, used it, and that Rudy had been around before.) Finding no-one home he gets it into his head to break in, but with the windows all gilled he decides that the girl's place will have to do, after all he knows that they are close to the guys downstairs and so might have some dope and perhaps money that he can take.

Noting that the balcony is well lit by street lights and visible from the road (you can see this in the photos, video, and on Google Maps Street View), he climbs up and pulls open Filomena's shutters (as shown by the defence demonstration), pushing them fully open, then makes his way back up to the car park area, selecting a reasonable sized rock (which later will be found in Filomena's room) he lobs it through the window (this explains the final placement of the rock as it is already travelling angled towards the left looking in the window. It hits the inner shutters denting the wood and leaving glass in the dent, throwing the shutters open and scattering glass across the room. The shutter deflects the rock further to the left resulting in it falling beside the wall in the bag, which then tips over.) He then waits to see if anyone heard it knowing that he can head up the driveway if a light comes on. Seeing no-one, he climbs over to the top of the guy's window and started removing glass and putting it on the sill, then when he can reach through to get the latch he does, scratching his arm in the process leaving the blood and hair that were never tested. With the window open he is able to climb up and through. He steps on the TV cable pulling the TV on top of the wardrobe, then making it inside, he pulls shut the outer shutters and closes the window.

The time is now about 8:45pm. Rudy knocks over the laptop looking at that, but knowing the trouble he had fencing the Lawyer's one decides to leave it, and rummages through Filomena's bedside table instead, looking drugs or money (seems to have been disturbed in the photos). He then heads out of her room and into the lounge, stops at the fridge for a drink of orange juice, and moves onto Laura's room when he searches through her dresser drawer (which is open and looks disturbed in the crime scene photos.

It's now about 9.00pm. Rudy gets a call of nature and heads to the loo in the Italian girl's bathroom.

9:05pm Meredith returns home unaware of the intruder inside. She might find the lights on inside and think that Amanda left them on when she left for Raff's. She heads down to her room planning to get out the books she was going to study and re-ring her mother (which she did around this time each night and had just failed to be able to get through based on her phone's history.)

~9:06pm Rudy now knows that someone is home. He can't afford to disturb them and risk getting caught, so doesn't flush. He heads out into the lounge and to the front door, but finds it locked (The door had a habit of coming open if just latched so the girls had to keep it locked to prevent this. It is unlikely that Meredith would not lock the door because she was supposed to be going to bed as she was tired according to her friends.)

~9:07pm Rudy realises that the only ways out are either via Filomena's window, which he doesn't want to risk a fall from, or by confronting whoever is home. Getting out his knife, he opts for confrontation.

~9:08pm Rudy enters Meredith's room catching her by surprise. A fight ensues. Which Meredith is strong and puts up a good fight, Rudy has size and muscle on his side, and is able to overpower her grabbing her hair, slamming her head against the wall. The fight culminates with Rudy throwing his body weight onto her from behind and stabbing her in the neck to stop her screams. Meredith collapses beside the wardrobe, bleeding heavily, blood from the wound being aspirated over the wardrobe doors. (The state of the room, blood and wounds tell the story of the fight.)

~9:12pm Rudy collapses on the bed placing the knife down on the sheet leaving the bloody imprint. Realising what he has done he gets up and pulls Meredith's jacket off (DNA on clothing), then tries to push her t-shirt up to stop the bleeding. When this fails he goes and gets towels from the bathroom and used them. He grabs Meredith's Bra strap (DNA located on bra) and hauls her into the middle of the room, ripping the strap and clasp from the bra, exposing her breasts (this is shown by the blood drops aspirated onto her breasts after she is moved and the bra torn off.)

~9:18pm Perhaps turned on by the fight and seeing her naked breasts, Rudy decides to assault Meredith as she dies, pulling down her jeans and panties, putting the pillow under her hips and violating her (DNA found inside Meredith) before ejaculating onto the pillow (semen stain on the pillow)

~9:20pm Meredith ceases to breath. Rudy goes into the bathroom to clean up, discovers that his trousers have her blood on them and so after washing his hands and the knife uses either the shower or the bidet to wash his trousers and then steps onto the bathmat leaving a washed out footprint in Meredith's watered down blood which is now on his foot from the washing of his trousers.

~9:35pm Rudy puts his shoes back on returns to Meredith's room and places the duvet over her, the action of a first time killer who is feeling remorseful. He accidently steps in her blood. (Footprints in Meredith's blood in bedroom)

~9:40pm Rudy goes to leave, but getting to the front door remembers that it is locked. (Bloody footprints to front door.) The blood has wiped off and dried on his shoe by this point. He returns to Meredith's room and looks through her purse, taking her money, the cellphones and her keys, leaving his DNA on the purse.

~9:45pm Rudy uses the only Yale key on Meredith's key ring to lock her door, returns to the front door and leaves the girl's home, then uses the key open Meredith's keyring to break in downstairs, but after a short search fails to find anything and leaves.

~10:00pm Rudy accidently makes phone calls, terminating them before they connect to towers

10:13pm Across the over side of the valley on the way home Rudy gets a shock when a text/video message comes in. Turns off phone and decides that they are too dangerous to keep so starts looking for a place to throw them

~10:30pm Rudy tosses phones into garden.


Now observant people will notice that none of the "facts" that the PGP's really like appear in this narrative.

1) Amanda's Bloody Footprints - Never positively identified as Amanda's. Never shown to be Meredith's blood, or even blood. Could have been there for longer than both Meredith and Amanda had even been living in Italy. No evidence of cleaning either. There is simply no evidence that the luminal footprints are connected to the crime. The absolute nail however is that there is only one footprint in any of Meredith's pooled blood and that is made by Rudy's shoe, thus no one with bare or socked feet could make bloody footprints.

2) The double DNA knife - As the C&V report states, there is no evidence that this knife was the murder weapon, or that it even had Meredith's DNA on it. The collection, storage and testing procedures were insufficient to rule out contamination at the levels that the test was done. The actions of the lab after this including trying to prevent the electronic files being seen and producing fake control tests indicates that there are serious issues with the testing.

3) The Bra Clasp - At this point I am going to go with the speculation that this was in fact planted. While contamination is possible, and since other profiles were on the clasp as well there was some form of contamination, I suspect based on the events of locating it, the violated crime scene that wasn't, and that the officer most likely responsible has been caught planting evidence in another case, I feel that the speculation is close to correct.

 

[Matthew Best]

Actually, if a million people think it, and only a hold million don't, it's no longer foolish, now is it.

What? Of course something can still be foolish if a million people think it! You really do seem to think that facts are decided by popularity.