General Holocaust Denial Discussion Part II

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Mr Lipschis' wartime identification papers prove he belonged to an SS company deployed as guards in Auschwitz. He was reportedly granted "ethnic German" status by the Nazis.
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Does not matter IMHO if you are cook or a guard. It would be impossible to see so many people go in, so few go out alive from the premise, and not add 1+1 and find 2.
 
so another Nazi killer scumbucket is facing justice what's the problem with that?
 
Nick Terry said:
No, I understood perfectly well what was being asked, I just have a lot more experience in observing deniers weasel out of things by moving goalposts. Therefore you have to be very, very clear what is meant. In this case, the denier didn't bite on your hook, judging by that thread, so it doesn't really matter.

But I've seen multiple threads at CODOH which rake over the 'no Nazi ever denied' claim and find all kinds of loopholes depending on what is meant by 'no Nazi ever denied'.

Interestingly, 'warjunky1428' is only the second denier I've seen on the internet claiming to be a history major. The only other revisionist I've encountered who was a history major grew up by his senior year and dumped the denier belief system. Studying history academically tends to immunise people against denier bullflop fairly well.

Thus, I doubt he really is a history major, or at least not a recent one (within the past quarter century or so) or from a proper college. Asking him to demonstrate some familiarity with a big-name academic historian of any period writing on a subject other than WWII or the ACW should probably do the trick to expose this guy's real level of historical knowledge, which appears to be abysmal.
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LOL He dumped any hint of believing the Holocaust was a farce of lies because a teaching career would have been over before it started.
 
Clayton failed to quote this:
Mr Lipschis acknowledges he served with the Waffen SS at the camp in occupied Poland, but claims he was only a cook.
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So he was a member of this criminal organisation, and neither a civilian employee (as the occupation as "cook" otherwise might suggest) nor a member of the regular armed forces, the Wehrmacht.
And he admits to having supported the operations of the Waffen SS at Auschwitz, where, as we all know, a good million people were murdered in a systematic and planned fashion by Mr Lipschis' criminal organisation.

Clayton also failed to quote this part:
Prosecutors have pointed to a re-interpretation of criminal law after the conviction of John Demjanjuk in May 2011.

Demjanjuk was found guilty of being an accessory to the murder of 28,060 Jews while he was a guard at the Sobibor death camp in occupied Poland.
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So it appears that Mr Lipschis, while perhaps not directly involved in the killing operations (he did not push any victims in the gas chambers nor did he throw the gas pills into the chabers), may considered an accessory to the murder of many at Auschwitz, by supporting the actual murderers with daily meals. But I caution that we don't know the actual content of the indictment against Mr Lipschis yet, as...
An indictment against him is currently being prepared, according to the Stuttgart prosecutor's office.
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Now I wonder how Clayton found any "scum" from the Simon Wiesenthal Center to have been "lying" in this case. Here is a summary of all the statements attributed to the Simon Wiesenthal Center in the cited article:
Last month, the Simon Wiesenthal Center named him as number four on its list of most-wanted Nazis.

The organisation accused him of participating in the mass murder and persecution of innocent civilians, primarily Jews, at Auschwitz between October 1941 and 1945.

"This is a very positive step, we welcome the arrest, I hope this will only be the first of many arrests, trials and convictions of death camp guards," the Simon Wiesenthal Center's Efraim Zuroff told AFP news agency.
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So I wonder which of these statements is a lie, in Clayton's opinion?
Clayton, do claim that the Simon Wiesenthal Center did NOT name him as number four on its list of most-wanted Nazis?
Or do you claim that he did NOT participate in the mass murder and persecution of innocent civilians, primarily Jews, at Auschwitz between October 1941 and 1945 (by cooking for the Waffen SS, who guarded the death camp)?
Or do you claim that the Simon Wiesenthal Center does NOT regard this as a positive step, or does NOT welcome the arrest?
I cannot find the lie!

The article links to this document from the Simon Wiesenthal Center:
http://www.wiesenthal.com/atf/cf/{5...c3e6dd277}/NAZI-WAR-CRIMINALS-REPORT_2013.PDF
It states about Mr. Lipschis - full quote:
SWC said:
4. HANS (ANTANAS) LIPSCHIS – GERMANY
Served in the SS – Totenkopf Sturmbann (Death’s Head Battalion) from October 1941 until 1945 at the Auschwitz – Birkenau death camp where he participated in the mass murder and persecution of innocent civilians, primarily Jews.
Status: Escaped to the United States after World War II, but was deported by the American Office of Special Investigations to Germany in April 1983.
Currently under investigation by the German authorities for his role in the
Nazi death camp.
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Do you claim he did not serve in the SS – Totenkopf Sturmbann (Death’s Head Battalion) from October 1941 until 1945 at the Auschwitz – Birkenau death camp? It seems Lipschis already admitted that he did in fact serve with the Waffen-SS at Auschwitz.
Or do you claim that he did NOT participate in the mass murder and persecution of innocent civilians, primarily Jews? I guess that's what you deny, right?

I guess in this case, we should find where the difference in our understanding begins. To start off:
Do you deny that innocent civilians, primarily Jews, were mass-murdered and persecuted at Auschwitz-Birkenau?
Or do you deny that the Waffen-SS, which guarded the camp, bore partial responsibility for those mass-murders by guarding the killing operation?
or do you merely deny that a cook for this organisation has anything to do with what the organisation does?
If the latter, let me ask you: Do you think that membership in a criminal organisation can be itself a crime, even if you don't participate directly in murders?

That's a lot of questions, and I don't expect you this time to answer each of them seperately. A summary reply from which your answer to each can be deduced will do. Perhaps you could say that there is no actual lie from the Simon Wiesenthal Center in this article, that you just generally thing they are lying scum.
 
zooterkin said:
How strange that his defence is that he wasn't involved, rather than that it didn't happen, eh, Clayton?
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That need to be put the accent on. As well as the defense of other which was "i followed orders".

They never defend themselves by "it did not happen", on the other hand neo-hitler-hugger always seems to use the "it did not happen" card. Makes you wonder if they can read proper english or german.
 
Zoot, Interesting point. I mean, he admits to being a "cook" there, but doesn't go "Hey! We never savagely killed millions of people there!! " Interesting that, eh?
 
zooterkin said:
How strange that his defence is that he wasn't involved, rather than that it didn't happen, eh, Clayton?
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Have any Nazi's who were involved and later prosecuted ever used holocaust denial (as opposed to "I didn't know about it") as a defense?

Ranb
 
The title has most of the right words just the wrong order:

Simon Wiesenthal Center Have Lying Scum 93 year Old Cook From Waffen SS Arrested
 
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Ranb said:
Have any Nazi's who were involved and later prosecuted ever used holocaust denial (as opposed to "I didn't know about it") as a defense?

Ranb
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Not to my knowledge, all admit it happened. That is why deniers have to claim they were all tortured or otherwise tricked or forced to say it happened.
 
Clayton Moore said:
Not really. It's against the law in Germany to dispute the lies spewed by the
Simon Wiesenthal Center scum.
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Are you certain that is what the law actually says? Is it not actually some like this?
§ 130 Public Incitement (1985, Revised 1992, 2002, 2005)

(1) Whoever, in a manner that is capable of disturbing the public peace:

incites hatred against segments of the population or calls for violent or arbitrary measures against them; or
assaults the human dignity of others by insulting, maliciously maligning, or defaming segments of the population, shall be punished with imprisonment from three months to five years.

(3) Whoever publicly or in a meeting approves of, denies or belittles an act committed under the rule of National Socialism of the type indicated in Section 6 subsection (1) of the Code of Crimes against International Law, in a manner capable of disturbing the public peace shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than five years or a fine.

(4) Whoever publicly or in a meeting disturbs the public peace in a manner that assaults the human dignity of the victims by approving of, denying or rendering harmless the violent and arbitrary National Socialist rule shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than three years or a fine.

§ 6 Genocide

(1) Whoever with the intent of destroying as such, in whole or in part, a national, racial, religious or ethnic group:

kills a member of the group,
causes serious bodily or mental harm to a member of the group, especially of the kind referred to in section 226 of the Criminal Code,
inflicts on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about their physical destruction in whole or in part,
imposes measures intended to prevent births within the group,
forcibly transfers a child of the group to another group, shall be punished with imprisonment for life.
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Ranb
 
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Clayton Moore said:
Not really. It's against the law in Germany to dispute the lies spewed by the Simon Wiesenthal Center scum.
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Could you be a bit more specific as to the nature of the "lies" being "spewed" by the Simon Wiesenthal Center and the German law you're referencing?

Germany's parliament passed legislation in 1985, making it a crime to deny the extermination of the Jews. In 1994, the law was tightened. Now, anyone who publicly endorses, denies or plays down the genocide against the Jews faces a maximum penalty of five years in jail and no less than the imposition of a fine.
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Link
 
If you listen to German males of a certain age, you become convinced that the WWII German army fielded more non-combatants than any wartime army in history.

93 yo cook? he had more years than any of the prisoners did.
 
Clayton Moore said:
Not really. It's against the law in Germany to dispute the lies spewed by the
Simon Wiesenthal Center scum.
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Do you realize it makes no sense to claim he wouldn't violate a minor law even as a defense against a much greater crime?
 
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