Continuation Part 5: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[DrTesla]

You make the assumption that all three were involved to prove that all three were involved. You are talking about things no one has talked about, not even the prosecution, nor any of the judges who have found things as factual.

I don't think Migni would agree with the idea that you speak for him. you didn't provide any examples of me talking about things nobody else has talked about or found factual.

again, 8 jurors found this babe guilty of murder in the only trial where all the evidence was looked at and all the witnesses gave testimony.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

you are missing the point on purpose, probably on purpose. nobody denies Rudy's role as the sexual aggressor but you guys keep acting like the choice is either rudy or the other two, which is a classic false choice. all 3 were involved.
first, I don't think the autopsy ever established that there was vaginal rape for sure, only a possibility of it. the point of the staging was to make the crime scene look like it was just about a rape, by the person who broke in, which was also staged, and then he murdered her. the point of the rape staging was to reinforce the idea there was only one guy involved, usually there aren't other people there cheering on a rape with knives.

do you deny that her body was moved from the closet to center of the room? also appeared her bra was removed after the fact b/c there was blood on bra but not on her breasts, and it seems like there would be blood on her breasts if she was uncovered during the rape and then slashed with the knife.

I do think the fact that Knox knew the body was in the closet at one point despite the police never telling her this is the most damning evidence against her outside of Raf's DNA on the bra clasp and her mixed dna with the victim's, and her lamp in the bedroom on the floor. it's amazing that this is rarely talked about.

Some facts... would help.

First, the crime scene photos show a fine spray of aspirated blood on Meredith's exposed breasts as well as her bra. Her bra was torn off when she was still gasping for breath. I won't post those photos. But the same aspirated spray is visible on the outside of the wardrobe side panel, adjacent to where her head was positioned when she was found. I can post a photo of that if you want. It shows that she was still breathing when she was moved to that spot.

Second, Meredith's body was never in the closet at any point. Nobody has ever said it was. Amanda did not see the inside of the room after the door was forced open. She was hearing a lot of frantic dialog in a language she barely understood. She got the idea that they were describing a body jammed into the closet with a foot sticking out. In fact, the body was lying on the floor under a quilt with a foot sticking out.

The evidence shows that Meredith was down on her knees in front of her wardrobe, with Guede behind and on top of her, when he cut her throat. That would have incapacitated her instantly. He dragged her into the middle of the room, to get her feet clear of the desk. He rolled her onto her side and yanked her bra hard enough to tear apart the seam on the back strap. He ripped it off. He didn't cut it off. He then removed her shoes, her pants, and her underpants. He put the pillow from her bed under her buttocks. He used towels to mop up some of the blood on the floor, so he could rape her without getting too much blood on himself. He left a trace of his DNA inside her vagina, and he probably ejaculated on the pillow.

Nobody staged anything. It was real. The guy is a psycho.

 

[DrTesla]

Some facts... would help.

First, the crime scene photos show a fine spray of aspirated blood on Meredith's exposed breasts as well as her bra. Her bra was torn off when she was still gasping for breath. I won't post those photos. But the same aspirated spray is visible on the outside of the wardrobe side panel, adjacent to where her head was positioned when she was found. I can post a photo of that if you want. It shows that she was still breathing when she was moved to that spot.

Second, Meredith's body was never in the closet at any point. Nobody has ever said it was. Amanda did not see the inside of the room after the door was forced open. She was hearing a lot of frantic dialog in a language she barely understood. She got the idea that they were describing a body jammed into the closet with a foot sticking out. In fact, the body was lying on the floor under a quilt with a foot sticking out.

The evidence shows that Meredith was down on her knees in front of her wardrobe, with Guede behind and on top of her, when he cut her throat. That would have incapacitated her instantly. He dragged her into the middle of the room, to get her feet clear of the desk. He rolled her onto her side and yanked her bra hard enough to tear apart the seam on the back strap. He ripped it off. He didn't cut it off. He then removed her shoes, her pants, and her underpants. He put the pillow from her bed under her buttocks. He used towels to mop up some of the blood on the floor, so he could rape her without getting too much blood on himself. He left a trace of his DNA inside her vagina, and he probably ejaculated on the pillow.

Nobody staged anything. It was real. The guy is a psycho.

Knox told some people at the station the body was found in the closet. You are right, she never saw in the room. So how did she know this? Nobody else said she was f ound in the closet because she was found in the room. therefore, it's not believable that they told her the body was found in the closet. this is one of Knox's statements to meridith's English friends /or her roommates that made them think she was possibly involved.

I don't want to rehash all this but there is no way 160 lb rudy overpowered this athletic girl without any defensive struggle from her. there's also no evidence he came in through that high window either in that room or on the exterior of the house and that high window could not be a more illogical access point for a burglar. there was nothing stolen from the house and there's no logical reason for rudy to go through one of the roommates' clothing.

you keep wanting to pin this only on rudy despite the logical pretzels it takes to make that case.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

I don't want to rehash all this but there is no way 160 lb rudy overpowered this athletic girl without any defensive struggle from her.

She did struggle. He stabbed her under the chin a couple of times before he cut her throat. He might have been trying to get her to submit to his control, but she did not submit. The struggle moved across the room because she was frantically trying to break free of his grasp. She couldn't break free, but he couldn't control her, until he cut her throat. Then she was physically incapacitated and he could do whatever he wanted.

The evidence is what pins this crime on Guede. I'm telling you what the evidence consists of, and the story it tells when it is pieced together.

 

[DrTesla]

She did struggle. He stabbed her under the chin a couple of times before he cut her throat. He might have been trying to get her to submit to his control, but she did not submit. The struggle moved across the room because she was frantically trying to break free of his grasp. She couldn't break free, but he couldn't control her, until he cut her throat. Then she was physically incapacitated and he could do whatever he wanted.

The evidence is what pins this crime on Guede. I'm telling you what the evidence consists of, and the story it tells when it is pieced together.

ok, so why no evidence he broke in through that window? how did he get into the house?

 

[Dan O.]

Why is the prosecution afraid to test if the purported stain is semen? The initial test is very simple and even available to the public. It would have cost them nothing to test the stain and then they could say it wasn't semen and no further testing was necessary. My guess is that they did test the stain and it was confirmed to be semen. But that still leaves the question of why they didn't test it for DNA.


... or they did run the DNA test and they didn't like the result. What are they hiding?

 

[DrTesla]

Why is the prosecution afraid to test if the purported stain is semen? The initial test is very simple and even available to the public. It would have cost them nothing to test the stain and then they could say it wasn't semen and no further testing was necessary. My guess is that they did test the stain and it was confirmed to be semen. But that still leaves the question of why they didn't test it for DNA.


... or they did run the DNA test and they didn't like the result. What are they hiding?

if the prosecution could have tested the stain independently, why then could not have the defense have tested it independently? My understanding is the defense did not do this. that's why they and people like you are still saying "purported" semen stain. it seems like it could have least been established it was semen vs. something other substance like lip balm rather easily.

what result could they have not liked? It is either going to be Raff's, Rudy's, or the victim's boyfriend. none of those results proves raff and knox innocent.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

if the prosecution could have tested the stain independently, why then could not have the defense have tested it independently? My understanding is the defense did not do this. that's why they and people like you are still saying "purported" semen stain. it seems like it could have least been established it was semen vs. something other substance like lip balm rather easily.

what result could they have not liked? It is either going to be Raff's, Rudy's, or the victim's boyfriend. none of those results proves raff and knox innocent.

You would think if anyone didn't want it tested, it would be the defense, they are the only ones who have something to loose.

 

[RandyN]

that didn't make sense to me either, looking forward to hearing an answer on this

The prosecution objected to this stain being tested. Its anyones guess as to why they would object. The defense who had little to gain and lots to lose OTOH had no objection to the testing of this stain.

Not the first strange objection of the prosecution and the slime lawyer Maresca.

At one point C and V made a request to open up the knife handle since this would be a place where blood might be expected to be trapped and even protected from any cleaning attempts. Once more the defense with little to gain and lots to lose had no objection. Mignini and Maresca OTOH nearly jumped out of their shoes in rising to object to this examination of the knife handle. Hows that for logic?

Now move a few years forward and the prosecution and Maresca are arguing for more testing. This in appeal to the SC. This is such a blatant case of fraud and abuse of office that I cant understand why the defense has remained like silent lambs on this exact contradiction.

Yimmer...the bloody sheets found downstairs as well as blood on the light switch and other oddities have all been discussed here...there are bloody rags outside the cottage, wet flip flops, cats blood etc...do a search here and you will find the discussion with cites.

 

[Bill Williams]

ok, so why no evidence he broke in through that window? how did he get into the house?

No evidence? You mean other than the rock on the floor and the broken glass? It's one thing to argue about the break-in as doable, I think this is the first I've ever read the claim that there is "no evidence."

 

[RandyN]

My understanding of the bra clasp DNA evidence comes from the guy talking about it here http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/index.php?title=The_Bra_Clasp

snip

Well you should not get past the introduction in the attached link. It is wrong factually in a couple of areas.
1. The bra was not cut off at all...simply ripped off.
2. The bra was not removed after death. Facts prove Kercher was still alive after her bra was removed.

These errors come from the short introduction. How likely is it that this guy gets all the rest correct?

The staging of a rape is baloney. The facts are all there drawn out in the blood of Miss Kercher. The guy writing this wiki looking story needs to check his facts.

 

[DrTesla]

No evidence? You mean other than the rock on the floor and the broken glass? It's one thing to argue about the break-in as doable, I think this is the first I've ever read the claim that there is "no evidence."

there's no DNA of rudy in the room, there is no debris from the yard in the room, there is no evidence of grass being trampled outside, there are no scuff marks on the wall of the house, a nail on the wall of the house that a burglard would have been likely to step on as he climbed up was not bent from his weight. it is almost my understanding that the window pattern would have made it difficult for anybody to climb through, and there was no blood found on the window glass that you might expect if a man came through exposing himself to being cut. you also had the interesting fact that no glass wsa found in the yard, which seems to indicate that the window was smashed from the inside while the external shutters were closed or partially closed thusp reventing any glass from falling below. it seems like if a man came through that window some of the glass would have been been pushed off an down below.
the glass in the room was found to be on top of the ransacked clothes, rather than under.

the defense never was able to prove that the climb was doable in court, and there are pictures that one of their tall members attempted to do the climb.

 

[DrTesla]

My understanding of the bra clasp DNA evidence comes from the guy talking about it here http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/index.php?title=The_Bra_Clasp

snip

Well you should not get past the introduction in the attached link. It is wrong factually in a couple of areas.
1. The bra was not cut off at all...simply ripped off.
2. The bra was not removed after death. Facts prove Kercher was still alive after her bra was removed.

These errors come from the short introduction. How likely is it that this guy gets all the rest correct?

The staging of a rape is baloney. The facts are all there drawn out in the blood of Miss Kercher. The guy writing this wiki looking story needs to check his facts.

ok, so answer me this: Why would Knox think that the body of the victim was found in the closet unless she had firsthand knowledge the body was in the closet at some point. it she was just assuming the locaaton of the body, why wouldn't the logical assumption be that the victim was found in the room on the floor or on her bed. Knox was not withing sight of the room as several people testified, neither was her boyfriend, and nobody would have told the two of them that the body was found in the closet, b/c the body was not found in the closet.

you cannot explain this away. it makes no sense. Knox tries to blame her lack of understanding of Italian for her curious statement but then she said Raff told her this info but he understands Italian and nobody told him about a body being found in a c loset because no body was found in the closet.

the police found that the victim was killed in the closet, and later moved to the middle of the room.

you guys wont' admit the burglarly is staged, and that is so obvious, so I have no expectation you'd ever admit the body was arranged to play up the rape.

 

[DrTesla]

The prosecution objected to this stain being tested. Its anyones guess as to why they would object. The defense who had little to gain and lots to lose OTOH had no objection to the testing of this stain.

Not the first strange objection of the prosecution and the slime lawyer Maresca.

At one point C and V made a request to open up the knife handle since this would be a place where blood might be expected to be trapped and even protected from any cleaning attempts. Once more the defense with little to gain and lots to lose had no objection. Mignini and Maresca OTOH nearly jumped out of their shoes in rising to object to this examination of the knife handle. Hows that for logic?

Now move a few years forward and the prosecution and Maresca are arguing for more testing. This in appeal to the SC. This is such a blatant case of fraud and abuse of office that I cant understand why the defense has remained like silent lambs on this exact contradiction.

Yimmer...the bloody sheets found downstairs as well as blood on the light switch and other oddities have all been discussed here...there are bloody rags outside the cottage, wet flip flops, cats blood etc...do a search here and you will find the discussion with cites.

can you cite any reporting on the Knox case that speaks of this semen stain, including what the prosecution said about it? the only place that I see it discussed is Bryan Fischer's website and he's not an impartial source of information.

Did the defense lawyers talk about this semen stain at the trial? If not, why not? Did either Knox or Raff talk about the semen stain their respective books?

Again, I can't see any reason why the prosecution would fear this semen stain, if it even was semen, because it's likely to be attributed to Raff, Rudy, or the victim's boyfriend, who has an alibi. It appears Friends think the semen being Rudy's would somehow point to Raff's innocence, which does't make any sense b/c I don't think the prosecuter theorized that Raff was involved in the rape asapect of the crime.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Rep. 199 tested positive for blood by TMB

No evidence? You mean other than the rock on the floor and the broken glass? It's one thing to argue about the break-in as doable, I think this is the first I've ever read the claim that there is "no evidence."

Rep. 198 and Rep. 199 are also evidence of a break-in, IMHO. The window was not broken in the way that Massei suggested; it was broken from a rock thrown from the outside. No one documented the glass being on top of the clothes, but even if it were there, there are two explanations for its presence that do not involve staging. One is that Filomena's clothes were already out. Two is that Filomena herself got glass onto the clothes when she retrieved her computer. IIRC, she talked about brushing away the glass, possibly in her testimony.

 

[DrTesla]

Rep. 198 and Rep. 199 are also evidence of a break-in, IMHO.

the rock and the broken glass are just as likely to be evidence of a staged break in as a break in. That's why you look for supporting evidence. Unless you want to argue there is no such thing as a staged break in? if there is a rock and broken window glass, it's a break in, no need to look for more evidence?

What is Rep. 198 and Rep. 199?

I forgot to mention that Knox's mixed blood/DNA with the victim's was found in that room as well. No Rudy DNA was found there. You guys make a big deal about Rudy DNA "being all over" the victim's room so how do youe xplain zero of his DNA in the room he ostensibly broke in at?

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

You would think if anyone didn't want it tested, it would be the defense, they are the only ones who have something to loose.

You'd think that, wouldn't you?

So the question is, what possible theories explain the prosecution not wanting the semen stain tested?

If I were them, and I thought Raffaele was guilty I'd test that stain immediately just in case it was Raffaele's semen. If they found Raffaele's semen on the pillow under Meredith's corpse that would be a slam-dunk for his guilt, I would think, and almost certainly that would drag Amanda in too. One might say it would be Mignini's wet dream.

Yet they do not want it tested. From which I think it's safe to infer that they would be just as surprised as me if that stain turned out to be Raffaele's semen. They know he wasn't there as well as I do. That or they are just utterly incompetent... but neither conclusion is palatable to the pro-guilt community.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

there's no DNA of rudy in the room, there is no debris from the yard in the room, there is no evidence of grass being trampled outside, there are no scuff marks on the wall of the house, a nail on the wall of the house that a burglard would have been likely to step on as he climbed up was not bent from his weight. it is almost my understanding that the window pattern would have made it difficult for anybody to climb through, and there was no blood found on the window glass that you might expect if a man came through exposing himself to being cut. you also had the interesting fact that no glass wsa found in the yard, which seems to indicate that the window was smashed from the inside while the external shutters were closed or partially closed thusp reventing any glass from falling below. it seems like if a man came through that window some of the glass would have been been pushed off an down below.
the glass in the room was found to be on top of the ransacked clothes, rather than under.

the defense never was able to prove that the climb was doable in court, and there are pictures that one of their tall members attempted to do the climb.

Many of these exact talking points have already been responded to just recently. You appear to be ignoring those responses, and just reposting the same talking points.

It would be a pleasant display of good faith if you could respond to the points already put to you instead of Gish Galloping around in circles.

 

[DrTesla]

Many of these exact talking points have already been responded to just recently. You appear to be ignoring those responses, and just reposting the same talking points.

It would be a pleasant display of good faith if you could respond to the points already put to you instead of Gish Galloping around in circles.

lol, I could make the same silly accusation of you. you guys don't ever explain anything, you have no rational answer for Amanda's lamp in the room on the floor, no answer for how she could have know the victim was in the closet at one point, no answer for how the victim's blood was on the blade of the knife found at raffe's house, no answer for how raffe's dna was found on the bra clasp of the victim, you have no evidence that rudy came through that window which would be a most illogical entry point. knox was challenged on almost every assertion that she made and her story consistently doesn't check out when compared to the cell phone record, other people's testimonies, physical evidence, and an understanding of human psychology. you guys are the Cult of Bryan Fischer, you parrot his dumb claims on here that any lawyer would eat up in court.

 

[DrTesla]

You'd think that, wouldn't you?

So the question is, what possible theories explain the prosecution not wanting the semen stain tested?

If I were them, and I thought Raffaele was guilty I'd test that stain immediately just in case it was Raffaele's semen. If they found Raffaele's semen on the pillow under Meredith's corpse that would be a slam-dunk for his guilt, I would think, and almost certainly that would drag Amanda in too. One might say it would be Mignini's wet dream.

Yet they do not want it tested. From which I think it's safe to infer that they would be just as surprised as me if that stain turned out to be Raffaele's semen. They know he wasn't there as well as I do. That or they are just utterly incompetent... but neither conclusion is palatable to the pro-guilt community.

Can you provide just one source that reports Mignini or another member of the prosecution stating they didn't want this semen stain tested, and why? Can you cite one source that quotes the defense lawyers talking about this? I can't seem to anything about outside of Bryan's Fischer's website so I'm starting to think it's not credible.

i'm not sure how the semen stain makes all the evidence against the two go away. again, if it's raffe's, he's guilty. if it's Rudy's, so what? we know he was involved. if it the victim's boyfriend, that would make sense, and he has an alibi. if it is somebody else, wouldn't that defy your insistence only Rudy committed this crime?