Continuation Part 5: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[DrTesla]

if the police forced Knox to write her written declaration accusing her boss, why is it so longwinded, evasive sounding, and silly? You'd think it would be short, to the point, cryptic kind of thing where she states Patrick did it with the knife in the bedroom and she was there. she seems to make it a creative writing exercise instead, which doesn't jive with her contention she was told to hurry up and write it.

 

[RandyN]

PMF is not a site to debate or argue this case on, it's a site devoted to Meredith Kercher comprised of guilters (as you would call them). I post there and I don't think Amanda killed anyone, I don't argue that when I'm there because that is not what that site is for, I've been a member for years.

So how about sharing your user name at PMF (org? or .nut?) so that we can read some of your posts there.

Not what the site is for? So your going with the honoring Meredith lie then?

What you may find mean or unfriendly here is that this site allows both "sides" to post. It is not an echo chamber. Please dont confuse being asked to provide facts to back your assertions as any sort of unfriendliness. Especially if those assertions are not based on any facts and you simply wish to keep that off topic.

Thats not unfriendly or rude or anything nearing what goes on at the PMF's I have reviewed. So what do you find so charming about a group of cultists that wish to jail innocent (your own belief) persons?

 

[GWCarver]

DrTesla,
How about if the defense builds an exact mock-up and has about 30 young men zip through it right in a row. Would that convince a jury? After all, we know Guede got through it, and there is nothing special about Guede.

 

[RandyN]

if the police forced Knox to write her written declaration accusing her boss, why is it so longwinded, evasive sounding, and silly? You'd think it would be short, to the point, cryptic kind of thing where she states Patrick did it with the knife in the bedroom and she was there. she seems to make it a creative writing exercise instead, which doesn't jive with her contention she was told to hurry up and write it.

IF? please explain how Knox was able to be so "long-winded" in the written Italian language of which she was a neophyte? Who else might be capable of writing long-winded Italian prose? 3 guesses and first two don't count.

 

[DrTesla]

IF? please explain how Knox was able to be so "long-winded" in the written Italian language of which she was a neophyte? Who else might be capable of writing long-winded Italian prose? 3 guesses and first two don't count.

well, I thought she wrote it in English? if you look at her prose, it's not like she's using a lot of big words, it's just extremely long for a "confession" statement.

the most surprising thing to me about the whole Knox thing is how little she is ridiculed b/c she's a gold mine. I felt embarrassed for her when I read that. How could anybody think writing that could help her situation?

 

[DrTesla]

DrTesla,
How about if the defense builds an exact mock-up and has about 30 young men zip right through it right in a row. Would that convince a jury? After all, we know Guede got through it, and there is nothing special about Guede.

we don't know gu-ede got through it b/c makes no sense for him to go that way and there is no evidence that anybody ever went through it.

i'm all for the defense demonstrating it can be done. I think they did have a real tall guy on their team try it but they never brought up the results in the trial which probably means it failed or it was extremely difficult.

if you are a burglar, you are going to break in at the point that is the biggest hassle for you? I don't know about you but I hate hassles.

 

[DrTesla]

if the only thing that I accomplish on here is forcing Friends of Amanda to own her written declaration, then I have been successful. encore, encore!

When I first read the transcript of Knox's written declaration to the police, I thought it was satire. that is the funniest confession that I've ever seen. so much for her being a bright girl. here it is in all it's glory:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1570225/Transcript-of-Amanda-Knoxs-note.html

Edited by jhunter1163: 

Edited for Rule 4. Do not copy and paste large blocks of text.

 

[DrTesla]

here's two good pictures of the high window at the cottage:

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/C460/

scroll down over half way to the section entitled Friday, November 14, 2008

Powerpoints #7: Forced Entry Via Filomena’s Window Fails The Giggle Test

 

[GWCarver]

we don't know gu-ede got through it b/c makes no sense for him to go that way and there is no evidence that anybody ever went through it.

i'm all for the defense demonstrating it can be done. I think they did have a real tall guy on their team try it but they never brought up the results in the trial which probably means it failed or it was extremely difficult.

if you are a burglar, you are going to break in at the point that is the biggest hassle for you? I don't know about you but I hate hassles.

If you know you can do something with little difficulty, it isn't a hassle to you.

 

[Kaosium]

dna evidence is dna evidence.

You're mistaken, there's a huge difference between identifiable substances which can be linked to a murder and trace elements that can get transferred much easier and are far more prone to contamination and require far more stringent laboratory environments and collection methods.

Here's something to read if you want to educate yourself on the topic. I look forward to the discussions that can occur when you actually know something about it.

time of when it was tested is irrelevant.

What would make you say that? If you know that some safeguards, any safeguards are required to prevent contamination, what would you think of a technician who left samples out for six weeks in a room filled with items and DNA where a murder had occurred and you knew the door to that room was broken as well as a window to the outside.

since the only other raff dna in the cottage was on some cigarette in the kitchen there is no credible claim that the bra clasp was contaminated.

You are aware that not every speck of DNA in the house was identified, right? They went over the murder room pretty good--twice. That's because a murder had been committed in there and then the door locked, and it discovered some ~14 hours later that's actually decent conditions for preserving the scene. Outside that room they can't and don't get everything, think of it: there would have been nothing discoverable when they went back.

also, it was knox/raf's defense lawyers that helped delay the testing of the bra clasp.

Why was there any need to go back?

why would the police wwant to frame Knox and raff? you say this as though it makes all the sense in the world but it is nuttery. they questioned and looked at other people, including the man Knox falsely accused, and released them or checked them off their list when their alibis checked out and there was no other evidence against them.

The prosecutor and the flying squad made international news with their arrest of Amanda and started a press frenzy, their arrest of Patrick only caused something on the order of twenty people to come forward and alibi him within days. They still dragged their heels for a total of two weeks before releasing him, it wasn't until Rudy was successfully reeled in that they ever let Patrick go.

Letting Amanda and Raffaele go would have revealed that they were entirely incompetent and might have caused some to ask questions as to why they ever arrested them in the first place on such an incoherent 'witness' statement from Amanda Knox. Prosecuting Raffaele and Amanda and blaming her for their arrest rolleyes fed into the narrative of Amanda being a demoness from hell who could manipulate males do her will, and they thought she would confess anyway or that they'd find the evidence they'd need to prosecute her. Once it became apparent she wouldn't confess and they couldn't find real evidence of murder, they took a pile of stinking slimy goose nuggets into court and pretended it was 'evidence' just 'cuz they said so.

After all, some have absolutely no clue that LT/LCN DNA isn't what convicts people in almost all countries of the world and isn't what people think of when they say 'DNA evidence.' They don't realize that 'mixed DNA' from people that live together outside the murder room isn't evidence of much of anything, nor is mixed DNA that relies on the known murderer (and that's what Rudy is now) using fixtures and items used on an everyday basis by someone who lives there is either.

I've got a question for you. Since 2008 the defense has demanded they receive the full data for the DNA analysis,and the rest of the forensics for that matter. Stefanoni dragged her heels and only released some of it on July 30th, 2009. That revealed a plethora of interesting things that had been denied the defense such as the (blood test) TMB negatives and the information to divine that there were about five total (including Meredith's) contributors to the bra clasp. However it was not all the information needed, thus the defense sought the entire time between the Trial of the First Instance and the Appeal to receive that information, and to have independent experts look at the DNA evidence at the very least. That was granted by the appeals judge in about November of '10, and Profs Conti and Vecchiotti demanded the further information that had been denied the defense.

Stefanoni refused to comply, and the judge intervened and demanded she turn it over. She refused until the last instant, requiring a month long delay in the experts finding, and they never did receive the electronic data files, but as they put it (something to the effect of) 'we have all we need.' They sure did as it turned out, they practically whipped it out and watered down Stefanoni's DNA work, completely unreliable is what they found. Some of the comments were scathing.


However, they never did receive those EDFs, the most important and revealing record of her DNA work. Why do you suppose Stefanoni refused to allow anyone to see those files, and now that the DNA work has been completely discredited why do you suppose she didn't produce them in order to try to defend herself in court?

What was Patrizia Stefanoni trying to hide?

 

[DrTesla]

"What happened after I know does not match up with what Raffaele was saying, but this is what I remember. I told Raffaele that I didn't have to work and that I could remain at home for the evening. After that I believe we relaxed in his room together, perhaps I checked my email. Perhaps I read or studied or perhaps I made love to Raffaele. In fact, I think I did make love with him."

I love how Knox said perhaps I made love with Raff. I don't think anybody doubts Knox had sex with the boyfriend that night. Boom! Rimshot!

 

[DrTesla]

If you know you can do something with little difficulty, it isn't a hassle to you.

lol, i'm kind of disapointined in some of you guys, considering this website is ostensibly a celebration of logic and a middle finger to paranormal and improbable events that defy logic.

regardless, you are a good man, Charlie brown.

 

[DrTesla]

You're mistaken, there's a huge difference between identifiable substances which can be linked to a murder and trace elements that can get transferred much easier and are far more prone to contamination and require far more stringent laboratory environments and collection methods.

Here's something to read if you want to educate yourself on the topic. I look forward to the discussions that can occur when you actually know something about it.



What would make you say that? If you know that some safeguards, any safeguards are required to prevent contamination, what would you think of a technician who left samples out for six weeks in a room filled with items and DNA where a murder had occurred and you knew the door to that room was broken as well as a window to the outside.



You are aware that not every speck of DNA in the house was identified, right? They went over the murder room pretty good--twice. That's because a murder had been committed in there and then the door locked, and it discovered some ~14 hours later that's actually decent conditions for preserving the scene. Outside that room they can't and don't get everything, think of it: there would have been nothing discoverable when they went back.



Why was there any need to go back?



The prosecutor and the flying squad made international news with their arrest of Amanda and started a press frenzy, their arrest of Patrick only caused something on the order of twenty people to come forward and alibi him within days. They still dragged their heels for a total of two weeks before releasing him, it wasn't until Rudy was successfully reeled in that they ever let Patrick go.

Letting Amanda and Raffaele go would have revealed that they were entirely incompetent and might have caused some to ask questions as to why they ever arrested them in the first place on such an incoherent 'witness' statement from Amanda Knox. Prosecuting Raffaele and Amanda and blaming her for their arrest rolleyes fed into the narrative of Amanda being a demoness from hell who could manipulate males do her will, and they thought she would confess anyway or that they'd find the evidence they'd need to prosecute her. Once it became apparent she wouldn't confess and they couldn't find real evidence of murder, they took a pile of stinking slimy goose nuggets into court and pretended it was 'evidence' just 'cuz they said so.

After all, some have absolutely no clue that LT/LCN DNA isn't what convicts people in almost all countries of the world and isn't what people think of when they say 'DNA evidence.' They don't realize that 'mixed DNA' from people that live together outside the murder room isn't evidence of much of anything, nor is mixed DNA that relies on the known murderer (and that's what Rudy is now) using fixtures and items used on an everyday basis by someone who lives there is either.

I've got a question for you. Since 2008 the defense has demanded they receive the full data for the DNA analysis,and the rest of the forensics for that matter. Stefanoni dragged her heels and only released some of it on July 30th, 2009. That revealed a plethora of interesting things that had been denied the defense such as the (blood test) TMB negatives and the information to divine that there were about five total (including Meredith's) contributors to the bra clasp. However it was not all the information needed, thus the defense sought the entire time between the Trial of the First Instance and the Appeal to receive that information, and to have independent experts look at the DNA evidence at the very least. That was granted by the appeals judge in about November of '10, and Profs Conti and Vecchiotti demanded the further information that had been denied the defense.

Stefanoni refused to comply, and the judge intervened and demanded she turn it over. She refused until the last instant, requiring a month long delay in the experts finding, and they never did receive the electronic data files, but as they put it (something to the effect of) 'we have all we need.' They sure did as it turned out, they practically whipped it out and watered down Stefanoni's DNA work, completely unreliable is what they found. Some of the comments were scathing.


However, they never did receive those EDFs, the most important and revealing record of her DNA work. Why do you suppose Stefanoni refused to allow anyone to see those files, and now that the DNA work has been completely discredited why do you suppose she didn't produce them in order to try to defend herself in court?

What was Patrizia Stefanoni trying to hide?

stefanoni wasn't on trial for murder so she had noting to hide and she had no agenda. her job was to test the samples given to her. she did. she also was not affliated with the prosecution, that's not how it works over there. she was independent of Mignini. she got her results and she reported what they were. I can see no logical reason why she would want Knox to be found guilty over anybody else.

 

[Kaosium]

so why didn't find the other two roommates' blood/dna mixed with the victim's blood? they all lived there, right?

Do you know that they didn't? (actually some was identified but only as it pertained to Amanda's being there too) No one else was on trial, why would they present evidence of Filomena or Laura if it didn't pertain to their case against Raffaele and Amanda?

This isn't like the US or systems you might be used to. Comodi can say something like 'we didn't need it to make our case' as she did with either the EDFs or the negative blood tests. You see in Italy prosecutors are considered 'incorruptible' pursuers of the truth, they feel they can determine for themselves if the defense needs to see it.

Of course in the real world that means maggots like Mignini can get away with just about anything, after all how dare anyone attack their integrity as an incorruptible prosecutor!

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

So how about sharing your user name at PMF (org? or .nut?) so that we can read some of your posts there.

Not what the site is for? So your going with the honoring Meredith lie then?

What you may find mean or unfriendly here is that this site allows both "sides" to post. It is not an echo chamber. Please dont confuse being asked to provide facts to back your assertions as any sort of unfriendliness. Especially if those assertions are not based on any facts and you simply wish to keep that off topic.

Thats not unfriendly or rude or anything nearing what goes on at the PMF's I have reviewed. So what do you find so charming about a group of cultists that wish to jail innocent (your own belief) persons?

Amanda is not innocent, she just didn't kill Meredith, the hate is here, like it or not......

 

[DrTesla]

Do you know that they didn't? (actually some was identified but only as it pertained to Amanda's being there too) No one else was on trial, why would they present evidence of Filomena or Laura if it didn't pertain to their case against Raffaele and Amanda?

This isn't like the US or systems you might be used to. Comodi can say something like 'we didn't need it to make our case' as she did with either the EDFs or the negative blood tests. You see in Italy prosecutors are considered 'incorruptible' pursuers of the truth, they feel they can determine for themselves if the defense needs to see it.

Of course in the real world that means maggots like Mignini can get away with just about anything, after all how dare anyone attack their integrity as an incorruptible prosecutor!

Italy has 1/7th of the incarceration rate of the United States, and their sentencing rules are much more lax than here, and they don't even have the death penalty. I think to argue that Knox was the victim of police brutality or a rogue prosecuter in Italy of all places is a fantasy. the only integrity Mignini seeks to protect is outright lies about him, and you'll find that is common with most people. he takes defamation seriously.

 

[DrTesla]

i'd actually be much more open to Rudy being a victim of a police witchhunt than Amanda Knox, b/c I get the sense anti-black racism is pretty prevalent in Italy, partly b/c of a much smaller black population than a country like the States. in fact, I think that is partly why Knox accused her black boss, probably thought it would play to their bias.

 

[Kaosium]

stefanoni wasn't on trial for murder so she had noting to hide and she had no agenda. her job was to test the samples given to her. she did. she also was not affliated with the prosecution, that's not how it works over there. she was independent of Mignini. she got her results and she reported what they were. I can see no logical reason why she would want Knox to be found guilty over anybody else.

Stefanoni produced the knife as 'evidence' roughly two weeks into the investigation, claiming it had Amanda's DNA on the handle, and Meredith's on the blade. If she didn't properly do those tests, or if that knife was just a 'prop' in order to induce Amanda to confess that would explain why she's been so damned reluctant to provide the necessary information that would substantiate her findings. At this point there's few other alternative explanations, but if you can think of one I'm willing to listen.

Incidentally Patrizia Stefanoni was just a lab tech with the Polizia Scientifica. Mignini pulled her out of the lab and made her the head of his forensics team, which is unusual in Italy and requires approval. She became his little helper and owes all of her subsequent 'success' to Mignini...

 

[DrTesla]

Stefanoni produced the knife as 'evidence' roughly two weeks into the investigation, claiming it had Amanda's DNA on the handle, and Meredith's on the blade. If she didn't properly do those tests, or if that knife was just a 'prop' in order to induce Amanda to confess that would explain why she's been so damned reluctant to provide the necessary information that would substantiate her findings. At this point there's few other alternative explanations, but if you can think of one I'm willing to listen.

Incidentally Patrizia Stefanoni was just a lab tech with the Polizia Scientifica. Mignini pulled her out of the lab and made her the head of his forensics team, which is unusual in Italy and requires approval. She became his little helper and owes all of her subsequent 'success' to Mignini...

if she's improperly conducting tests and still getting perfect matches, she ought to get a promotion. I'm gonna praise her like we should.

she strikes me as an intelligent woman, and a good person. when you are at the point your demonizing Patrizia Stefanoni in the name of defending some callous bimbo in Knox, it's time to wave the white flag and admit Knox is guilty.

 

[Kaosium]

i'd actually be much more open to Rudy being a victim of a police witchhunt than Amanda Knox, b/c I get the sense anti-black racism is pretty prevalent in Italy, partly b/c of a much smaller black population than a country like the States. in fact, I think that is partly why Knox accused her black boss, probably thought it would play to their bias.

Actually it was the police who wanted Patrick arrested, being as they did it and all with nothing but two barely coherent 'witness' statements they demonstrably did not believe and which their victim, Amanda Knox, recanted in detail as soon as she had an opportunity to think straight.