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Proof of Life After Death!!

So dead people can only communicate with some “special” live people, and the best thing dead people can think of communicating with this amazing life/death connection is to tell one of these “special” people (JE), that a second person (Robin1), knows a third person (Robin1’s brother) that bought a ticket to a fourth person’s show (Valery Harper)?

I can think of reasons why “special” people like JE might use parlour tricks to convince gullible people they can talk to dead people, but I can’t think of a single reason why dead people would.

Perhaps Robin1 might care to explain why dead people would rather play silly entertainment games than provide meaningful and helpful information (I suspect not).
 
carlitos said:
Link below. If you're bored, you can play "count the flounces." I haven't had the energy, but they would be funny if pasted all into one post.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=248380
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Thank you for the link.

It actually would be quite funny to play "count the flounces." I give that joke (on me) my blessing, as long as you incorporate all my flounces from the different threads I have been involved in.

Sully and the shredding of the door to this land was my personal fave.

In second place, is the one about me not coming back here even if JE paid me.

Gold, Jerry! Gold!
 
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ynot said:
Robin1 might care to explain why dead people would rather play silly entertainment games than provide meaningful and helpful information (I suspect not).
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Was it this thread, or the Proof of Life After Death link, that referenced the attention test with the big fake gorilla? The one where there's so much going on that you don't notice the gorilla, even though that's the important bit?

Once again, I'm not supporting JE, or claiming psychic ability is real - I'm just taking issue with lazy 'critical thinking' that doesn't bother to examine itself as long as it's on the 'right' side. And I'm doing it even though I know what a hornets' nest it is I'm kicking...

I'm suggesting (not insisting, just exploring) that if JE were 'real', then he sees an attention film of the dead. You insist he should notice the big fake gorilla and mention that. I could accept that he 'sees' or 'senses' a swirling mass of messages and grabs what he happens to latch on to. It's not a sound argument to say 'why didn't he say something of momentous importance?' anymore than the tiresome recourse to 'if god existed he made a poor job of it, because I'm quite clever and I wouldnt do it like that'. In no way am I suggesting the failure of those two pseudo-arguments proves either psychic ability or the existence of a diety. But they are not real arguments.
 
jiggeryqua said:
Was it this thread, or the Proof of Life After Death link, that referenced the attention test with the big fake gorilla? The one where there's so much going on that you don't notice the gorilla, even though that's the important bit?

Once again, I'm not supporting JE, or claiming psychic ability is real - I'm just taking issue with lazy 'critical thinking' that doesn't bother to examine itself as long as it's on the 'right' side. And I'm doing it even though I know what a hornets' nest it is I'm kicking...

I'm suggesting (not insisting, just exploring) that if JE were 'real', then he sees an attention film of the dead. You insist he should notice the big fake gorilla and mention that. I could accept that he 'sees' or 'senses' a swirling mass of messages and grabs what he happens to latch on to. It's not a sound argument to say 'why didn't he say something of momentous importance?' anymore than the tiresome recourse to 'if god existed he made a poor job of it, because I'm quite clever and I wouldnt do it like that'. In no way am I suggesting the failure of those two pseudo-arguments proves either psychic ability or the existence of a diety. But they are not real arguments.
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What would be a good argument? In your opinion?
 
Resume said:
What would be a good argument? In your opinion?
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A good argument against the existence of psychics? We've covered them. That nobody can demonstrate it effectively under testing. That they all employ a range of cheating techniques, easily observed. That if it truly existed the world would be a very different place. Were there others? Not that any of them are conclusive alone, or possibly even taken together, but that doesn't make "most of the messages are banal" a good argument.
 
jiggeryqua said:
Was it this thread, or the Proof of Life After Death link, that referenced the attention test with the big fake gorilla? The one where there's so much going on that you don't notice the gorilla, even though that's the important bit?

Once again, I'm not supporting JE, or claiming psychic ability is real - I'm just taking issue with lazy 'critical thinking' that doesn't bother to examine itself as long as it's on the 'right' side. And I'm doing it even though I know what a hornets' nest it is I'm kicking...

I'm suggesting (not insisting, just exploring) that if JE were 'real', then he sees an attention film of the dead. You insist he should notice the big fake gorilla and mention that. I could accept that he 'sees' or 'senses' a swirling mass of messages and grabs what he happens to latch on to. It's not a sound argument to say 'why didn't he say something of momentous importance?' anymore than the tiresome recourse to 'if god existed he made a poor job of it, because I'm quite clever and I wouldnt do it like that'. In no way am I suggesting the failure of those two pseudo-arguments proves either psychic ability or the existence of a diety. But they are not real arguments.
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So “psychics” can only ever “latch on to” meaningless drivel like someone bought a ticket to a show, or someone in the room has a tooth in their pocket, but never anything meaningful and helpful like “my missing body is over here and this person murdered me”? How convenient for the “psychics” and how useless for the grieving family and friends.
 
jiggeryqua said:
A good argument against the existence of psychics? We've covered them. That nobody can demonstrate it effectively under testing. That they all employ a range of cheating techniques, easily observed. That if it truly existed the world would be a very different place. Were there others? Not that any of them are conclusive alone, or possibly even taken together, but that doesn't make "most of the messages are banal" a good argument.
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Oh I agree that no one anywhere has demonstrated such ability under proper conditions. I also agree that alleged psychic ability is indistinguishable from a carny cold-read, but I think that wondering why the departed aren't talking about the conditions of the afterlife is a legitimate pondering.
 
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jiggeryqua said:
A good argument against the existence of psychics? We've covered them. That nobody can demonstrate it effectively under testing. That they all employ a range of cheating techniques, easily observed. That if it truly existed the world would be a very different place. Were there others? Not that any of them are conclusive alone, or possibly even taken together, but that doesn't make "most ALL of the messages are banal" a good argument.
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Fixed that for you (which makes it a good argument). If you don't agree give a single example of verified information from a "psychic" that has ever found a missing body, solved a crime or even provided credible proof that any of the claimed commincation has come from a dead person.

Exactly how does being right that someone bought a ticket to a show or someone has a tooth in their pocket establish that a dead person provided that information?
 
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ynot said:
So “psychics” can only ever “latch on to” meaningless drivel like someone bought a ticket to a show, or someone in the room has a tooth in their pocket, but never anything meaningful and helpful like “my missing body is over here and this person murdered me”? How convenient for the “psychics” and how useless for the grieving family and friends.
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Well, we're in a thread about a psychic who routinely claims she knows where the body is and who the murderer is. Of course, she's got a 100% track record of being utterly wrong, but that's beside the point. Not only do some psychics get lucky guesses on bodies and murderers, hardly anybody sees the gorilla. But it is still there.
 
ynot said:
Exactly how does being right that someone bought a ticket to a show had a mundane conversation about an actress in a show ... or someone has a tooth in their pocket establish that a dead person provided that information?
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Fixed that for you too ;) The ticket purchase never happened, it was a later embellishment from someone wanting badly to have a hit. See my earlier posts for details.

ETA -- I can't. See if the strike tags worked on my phone. Apologies if it's hard to read for that reason.
 
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ynot said:
So “psychics” can only ever “latch on to” meaningless drivel like someone bought a ticket to a show, or someone in the room has a tooth in their pocket, but never anything meaningful and helpful like “my missing body is over here and this person murdered me”? How convenient for the “psychics” and how useless for the grieving family and friends.
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I could go into the whole earth is the school bit, free will, blah, blah, blah, yada, yada, yada...but I won't.

If you are interested in what I think about the messages we receive and why (as well as the messages we don't receive and why not) you can find those answers on my thread.

Again, covered to death.

I think it probably best we get back to the topic at hand...Sylvia Browne.

And her fingernails.

I wouldn't want to see some of these important posts moved to AAH because of thread derail.

And Jiggeryqua, I know you don't agree with me....but I do want to thank you for truly listening and keeping an open mind.
 
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Robin1 said:
I could go into the whole earth is the school bit, free will, blah, blah, blah , yada ,yada,yada...but I won't.

If you are interested in what I think about the messages we receive and why (as well as the messages we don't receive and why not) you can find those answers on my thread.

Again, covered to death.

I think it probably best we get back to the topic at hand...Sylvia Browne.

And her fingernails.

I wouldn't want to see some of these important posts moved to AAH because of thread derail.

And Jiggeryqua, I know you don't agree with me....but I do want to thank you for truly listening and keeping an open mind.
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Why is it you keep deflecting back to Sylvia and her fingernails? We've established shes a fraud, We also established Johnny is a fraud, am I missing anything?
 
Robin1 said:
And Jiggeryqua, I know you don't agree with me....but I do want to thank you for truly listening and keeping an open mind.
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You've not convinced me, certainly (and it didn't help to see JE so blatently play tired old 'psychic' games in that clip). But I am still interested in his more remarkable 'hits' and I don't feel any need to establish my credentials here by reciting any kind of Skeptics' Creed.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio...
 
Robin1 said:
I could go into the whole earth is the school bit, free will, blah, blah, blah, yada, yada, yada...but I won't.

If you are interested in what I think about the messages we receive and why (as well as the messages we don't receive and why not) you can find those answers on my thread.

Again, covered to death.

I think it probably best we get back to the topic at hand...Sylvia Browne.

And her fingernails.

I wouldn't want to see some of these important posts moved to AAH because of thread derail.

And Jiggeryqua, I know you don't agree with me....but I do want to thank you for truly listening and keeping an open mind.
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It’s no surprise that you would rather obfuscate with fingernails than address and answer simple questions.
 
carlitos said:
Fixed that for you too ;) The ticket purchase never happened, it was a later embellishment from someone wanting badly to have a hit. See my earlier posts for details.

ETA -- I can't. See if the strike tags worked on my phone. Apologies if it's hard to read for that reason.
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Thanks, but the point is performing parlour tricks doesn’t prove a communication with dead people and I can’t think of a single reason why believers think it does (other than they want it to).
 
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jiggeryqua said:
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio...
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As a fellow poet, I quite enjoy the Shakespeare. And as Hamlet proposes here, there is more than meets the eye in this rotten state of Denmark, where a rather odious collection of cold readers pose as communicators with the dead.
 
ynot said:
Thanks, but the point is performing parlour tricks doesn’t prove a communication with dead people and I can’t think of a single reason why believers think it does (other than they want it to).
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I'm also baffled why believers find such comments comforting. I wasn't close to my parents, but I like to think, if there was an afterlife and they wanted to contact me and let me know they were watching, they'd come out with more than "you just bought a new fridge", or "you're going to see a play", or "you have a tooth in your pocket."

You know, like "the grandkids are beautiful!" or "honored you named the one after me" or even "All is good, we're happy where we are."

Taking comfort from "nice fridge!" is just...bizarre.
 
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