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New Disclosures on Benghazi

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No, the CIA had a draft that was quite clear the attack was carried out by an Islamist group. That draft changed after the State Department reviewed it.

No reasonable explanation on why it was changed has been provided thus far.

I thought the reason was that Al Quaeda links were too tenuous to be confirmed at the time. I think that's a pretty reasonable explanation.

I also don't see why this is a big deal. I mean, unless someone goes on to use this as an argument that Obama is "soft on Sharia".
 
No, the CIA had a draft that was quite clear the attack was carried out by an Islamist group. That draft changed after the State Department reviewed it.

No reasonable explanation on why it was changed has been provided thus far.

The CIA draft also said it was spontaneously inspired by the protests in Cairo about the video, which evolved into the attack on the consulate. And that verbiage was in there before the draft was ever sent to the State Department, and was not altered by anyone in that department.
 
What REALLY pisses me off, above and beyond any other the actual events, is that Clinton et al. stood in front of cameras and told everyone that this whole incident was a protest that escalated. They told the families of the dead the same. In front of their coffins.

But yet, that's not even close to being true. Not even remotely.
To what end would she knowingly propagate the lie? Did she have some reason to believe that the conspiracy could be contained and that the truth wouldn't come out? I really don't get it. I don't even understand the theory. It's a lot like the 9/11 truther movement. There are a lot of ideas and "dots" we are supposed to connect but most here who think Obama et al did something wrong keep saying we need more investigation. In all honesty this looks politically motivated and is fed by the desire to find a scandal. FTR: I've never liked Hillary Clinton and I've said so on many occasions.
 
I thought the reason was that Al Quaeda links were too tenuous to be confirmed at the time. I think that's a pretty reasonable explanation.

That would be a fair assumption to make, but Al-Qaeda is not an all-inclusive umbrella organization for all Islamist groups. Replacing what really happened with this fake story about the attack being part of a spontaneous protest about an anti-islamic video is weird.

I also don't see why this is a big deal. I mean, unless someone goes on to use this as an argument that Obama is "soft on Sharia".

Well, they changed the document from the correct information to something that was known to be incorrect. This damaged our relationship with Libyas government. They were saying that this attack was an Islamist group. We were saying it wasn't. Our lie damaged their credibility.

I'd like to know why we did that.
 
That would be a fair assumption to make, but Al-Qaeda is not all Islamist groups. Replacing what really happened with this fake story about the attack being part of a spontaneous protest about an anti-islamic video is weird.

It also isn't true. The story about the attack being part of a spontaneous protest about an anti-Islamic video never replaced anything. It was always part of the memo, since before it went to anyone outside the CIA.

I'd like to know why we did that.

We didn't.
 
That would be a fair assumption to make, but Al-Qaeda is not an all-inclusive umbrella organization for all Islamist groups. Replacing what really happened with this fake story about the attack being part of a spontaneous protest about an anti-islamic video is weird.

I'm not sure it is a fake story. But you're right, it is weird. Do you think - like the witch hunters Republicans who have called this hearing - and the two previous - that the administration lied? What would anyone in the administration have to gain by purposely lying? The whole theory sounds like something I would expect from a twoofer.

Well, they changed the document from the correct information to something that was known to be incorrect.

That's not what I heard. Well, rather, it's no what I heard from non-right wing news sites.

This damaged our relationship with Libyas government. They were saying that this attack was an Islamist group. We were saying it wasn't. Our lie damaged their credibility.

I'd like to know why we did that.

You're assuming you did. I think the least dumb speculation would be that nobody lied, but used incomplete information due to fog of war.
 
To what end would she knowingly propagate the lie? Did she have some reason to believe that the conspiracy could be contained and that the truth wouldn't come out?

Maybe the administration hoped the lie would stand until after the election to avoid a small amount of embarrassment. Maybe they were incompetent. Maybe they were doing something super sneaky in another part of the world and were using that for some nefarious (but good for US public interest) means? It makes absolutely no sense.

I really don't get it. I don't even understand the theory. It's a lot like the 9/11 truther movement. There are a lot of ideas and "dots" we are supposed to connect but most here who think Obama et al did something wrong keep saying we need more investigation.

Which dots are you supposed to connect? Has someone actually proposed a conspiracy theory?

The only conclusions that anyone here or on the Hill are discussing as possible are incompetence and blame shifting.
 
Maybe the administration hoped the lie would stand until after the election to avoid a small amount of embarrassment. Maybe they were incompetent. Maybe they were doing something super sneaky in another part of the world and were using that for some nefarious (but good for US public interest) means? It makes absolutely no sense.

Well, it makes sense if you drop the assumption that they lied.


Which dots are you supposed to connect? Has someone actually proposed a conspiracy theory?

Yes. Watch FOX News.

The only conclusions that anyone here or on the Hill are discussing as possible are incompetence and blame shifting.

Well, those aren't the only two options, no.
 
  • It's been claimed Clinton lied.
  • I asked, "to what end"?
  • I made the point that she could not suppress the truth without a conspiracy (not conspiracy theory just "conspiracy"). Other people knew the truth. To keep them from telling the truth they would have to be part of a "conspiracy" to conceal the truth.
I'll ask one more time. To what end did Clinton lie?

RandFan said:
To what end would she knowingly propagate the lie? Did she have some reason to believe that the conspiracy could be contained and that the truth wouldn't come out? I really don't get it. I don't even understand the theory. It's a lot like the 9/11 truther movement. There are a lot of ideas and "dots" we are supposed to connect but most here who think Obama et al did something wrong keep saying we need more investigation. In all honesty this looks politically motivated and is fed by the desire to find a scandal. FTR: I've never liked Hillary Clinton and I've said so on many occasions.
(note the lack of theory after "conspiracy").
 
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I'm not sure it is a fake story. But you're right, it is weird. Do you think - like the witch hunters Republicans who have called this hearing - and the two previous - that the administration lied? What would anyone in the administration have to gain by purposely lying?

The only reasonable motive I can think of, other than gross incompetence, would be to keep the Obama Administration's reputation as extremely effect against Islamist groups high until after the election.

The whole theory sounds like something I would expect from a twoofer.

Do you really need to drag that kind of mud slinging here?

That's not what I heard. Well, rather, it's no what I heard from non-right wing news sites.

Part of the pertinent information from people like Hicks is establishing what the various parts of government knew and when. Everyone who was on the ground was saying that this was a coordinated attack from Islamists.

Reviewing how the two separate attacks unfolded, it's preposterous to believe that the deaths occurred from protesters. They descended upon the compound in a wave. The attackers used RPGs, grenades, mortars and truck mounted artillery pieces. As the soldiers rushed, trucks blocked the roads leading away.

Hours later, the attackers repeated similar tactic on the CIA annex.

Nothing suggests a disorganized protest. No one on the ground thought it was a protest gone wrong. The CIA did not believe that was a protest gone wrong.

And yet that was what was published by the government.

If the government was truly suffering from "fog of war", I would expect them to state that they did not yet have all the details. I don't expect them to make :rule10 up that paints them in the best possible light.
 
  • It's been claimed Clinton lied.
  • I asked, "to what end"?
  • I made the point that she could not suppress the truth without a conspiracy (not conspiracy theory just "conspiracy"). Other people knew the truth. To keep them from telling the truth they would have to be part of a "conspiracy" to conceal the truth.
I'll ask one more time. To what end did Clinton lie?

(note the lack of theory after "conspiracy").

You should go back and count how many times you've used the phrase "conspiracy theory" in this thread.

You've been focusing on it like a laser.
 
Maybe the administration hoped the lie would stand until after the election to avoid a small amount of embarrassment. Maybe they were incompetent. Maybe they were doing something super sneaky in another part of the world and were using that for some nefarious (but good for US public interest) means? It makes absolutely no sense.
"Maybe". Maybe she is no longer Hillary and was taken over by an alien. Sounds like the stuff of CT.

The only conclusions that anyone here or on the Hill are discussing as possible are incompetence and blame shifting.
No, they are claiming that Clinton intentionally lied and we are supposed to draw conclusions from "maybe".
 
"Maybe". Maybe she is no longer Hillary and was taken over by an alien. Sounds like the stuff of CT.

No, just desperation on your part.

No, they are claiming that Clinton intentionally lied and we are supposed to draw conclusions from "maybe".

No, the fact that the CIA report was a lie isn't a maybe. It's a fact. Why they chose to change it from the truth to a lie is in question.
 
Hillary Clinton isn't omniscient. I'd guess she was going with the info she was given.

No, she's not, you're correct there. However, knowing how volatile a situation like that could be, every available asset should have been scrambled immediately.
 
You should go back and count how many times you've used the phrase "conspiracy theory" in this thread.

You've been focusing on it like a laser.
It looks like conspiracy theory. It has the markings of it with all of the demands for more hearing and more investigations. This happened in Sept of last year and folks are still breathlessly sure the smoking gun is right around the corner.

There is no evidence any intentional cover up (which would require a conspiracy). Yet people are certain there was this conspiracy to mislead the public. As it grows it looks more and more like CT.
 
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