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Biblical Flood? Fish, squid, and shrimp fossils in the mountains of Lebanon and Peru

Look up who edited the Gilgamesh epic and in what year it was edited.


I've looked up the Gilgamesh Epic and the main thing I've noticed about when it was written and edited is that just like the biblical flood story it talks about events that occurred tens of millions of years after the fish, squid, and shrimp fossils in the mountains of Lebanon and Peru got to where they remain to this very day.
 
Almost always is the case in ancient documents, which you probably know. And is probably the reason why the only written documentation of Alexander the Great (the man who conquered Jerusalem, Palestine, and much of the known world) comes from a single offhand comment in a letter whereas all the other written documents about his life come from writers writing over 300 years after his death.
It's a good point, but, the sources for Alexander the Great were chiefly historians, real people who we know historicaly existed and who put their names to their works as the authors, and who in turn named their sources, which were mainly Alexander's campaign historian Callisthenes, his generals Ptolemy and Nearchus, a junior officer on Alexander's campaigns called Aristobulus, and Alexander's chief helmsman Onesicritus.

Most of the books of the Bible are actualy anonymous, chiefly being only traditionaly attributed to certain people rather than the books actualy naming their own authors.

Manuscript Support for the Bible's Reliability by Ron Rhodes

"The Dead Sea Scrolls prove the accuracy of the transmission of the Bible.
In fact, in these scrolls discovered at Qumran in 1947, we have Old Testament manuscripts that date about a thousand years earlier (150 B.C.) than the other Old Testament manuscripts then in our possession (which dated to A.D. 900).
The significant thing is that when one compares the two sets of manuscripts, it is clear that they are essentially the same, with very few changes.
The fact that manuscripts separated by a thousand years are essentially the same indicates the incredible accuracy of the Old Testament's manuscript transmission. A full copy of the Book of Isaiah was discovered at Qumran.
Even though the two copies of Isaiah discovered in Qumran Cave 1 near the Dead Sea in 1947 were a thousand years earlier than the oldest dated manuscript previously known (A.D. 980), they proved to be word for word identical with our standard Hebrew Bible in more than 95 percent of the text." The 5 percent of variation consisted chiefly of obvious slips of the pen and variations in spelling." From manuscript discoveries like the Dead Sea Scrolls, Christians have undeniable evidence that today's Old Testament Scripture, for all practical purposes, is exactly the same as it was when originally inspired by God and recorded in the Bible.

http://home.earthlink.net/~ronrhodes/Manuscript.html

You're taking this guy's word for it that the Old Testament, including the Book of Genesis, was inspired by God? Where's the evidence that Book of Genesis was inspired by God?
Because when we look at the earlier texts from Mesopotamia, such as the Mesopotamian creation account found in the 'Enuma Elish' (which being dated from between 1800 BC to 1100 BC definately predates the Book of Genesis) we find that there are several quite striking similarities to the creation account found in the Book of Genesis.
1) In both the Enuma Elish and Genesis, creation is an act of divine speech.
2) In both, the primordial world is formless and empty, the only existing thing being the watery abyss which exists prior to creation.
3) In both, the sequence of creation is the same: light, firmament, dry land, luminaries, then finaly life and man.
4) In both humans are created from the earth.

And as I've already informed you, the flood account in Genesis is quite obviously based upon the text found in the Mesopotamian 'Epic of Gilgamesh', which in turn is obviously based upon the 'Epic of Atra Hasis', which, being dated to the 18th century BC predates the Book of Genesis (written around 500 BC) by at least a thousand years.

Shouldn't that at least suggest to you that much of the Book of Genesis was actualy inspired by earlier Mesopotamian texts rather than by God?

Remember, the person who is traditionaly considered to have started Abrahamic religion, 'Abraham', was supposedly himself a Mesopotamian who moved to Canaan, a place where they worshipped a pantheon of gods led by a chief god called 'El' who's wife or consort was a mother goddess called 'Asherah'. Even the Bible says that God was known to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as 'El' (Exodus 6.2–3) and we can also associate the Cannanite god 'El' to the Israelite god 'Yahweh' via both of them being associated with the Canaanite mother goddess 'Asherah' because of the archeological discovery of an 8th century BC piece of pottery with the inscription; "I have blessed you by Yahweh of Samaria and His Asherah" and also the discovery of similar inscriptions (also dated to the 8th century BC) found on walls at two sites, Khirbet el-Kom and Kuntillet Ajrud, both in Israel.

Doesn't any of that at least suggest to you that monotheistic Abrahamic religion was originaly inspired by earlier polytheistic religions from Mesopotamia and Canaan?
As the follower of an Abrahamic religion, don't you consider these earlier polytheistic religions as mythological in origin rather than factual?

DOC said:
Which is evidence for the truth of the biblical accounts. They report both the good and the bad unlike a ruler or country which minimalizes the bad or simply don't record it at all.
According to that logic, there is evidence for the truth of the books of Harry Potter because they report both good and the bad things happening in them.
 
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Which is evidence for the truth of the biblical accounts. They report both the good and the bad unlike a ruler or country which minimalizes the bad or simply don't record it at all.

But exactly like a fictional story trying to hold the interest of an audience.
 
Well this makes about the 15th time (since I've been on this system) someone assumed the worse, and falsely accused me of something . Actually the reason I put {Carbon} dating in there was because I knew a derailing series of joke attempts would ensue if it just said dating.


OK, let me try.

The bible talks of a {Completely impossible}* worldwide flood...


You see, even your OP admits that the Biblical flood could never have happened.


lolpossums.jpg


*Words added to avoid the derailing series of joke attemps that would ensue if it just said worldwide flood. So that's OK then.


Oh darn! I didn't see that bit before I posted the above picture.

Please disregard.
 
What is your evidence Moses even existed, aside from the Bible?
Roman/Jewish historian Josephus (who was married in Egypt) wrote as history that Moses had lived in Egypt and was even a general in the Egyptian army at one time.
 
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Roman/Jewish historian Josephus (who was married in Egypt) wrote as history that Moses had lived in Egypt and was even a general in the Egyptian army at one time.


And the fish, squid, and shrimp fossils in the mountains of Lebanon and Peru are estimated to have lived around ____________________ ?


It's not going to go away, DOC.
 
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Oh darn! I didn't see that bit before I posted the above picture.

Please disregard.


I don't blame you for not seeing it because Mojo made the explanation so small when he changed my post to say this:

The bible talks of a {Completely impossible}* worldwide flood...

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=9205494#post9205494


I never would have figured that out for myself.


I think this kind of stuff hurts the image of some skeptics.


When did the fossils arrive in the mountains of Lebanon and Peru, DOC?
 
And the fish, squid, and shrimp fossils in the mountains of Lebanon and Peru are estimated to have lived around ____________________ ?

I don't know how old the marine life is, the material that surrounds the marine life is more than likely older than the marine life it surrounds.

Also with regard to marine life: From the article: Problems with Radiometric and Carbon-14 Dating

"Are there things that can't be carbon dated?

The method doesn't work on things that didn't get their carbon from the air. This leaves out aquatic creatures since their carbon might originate from dissolved carbonate rocks limestone. This in turn causes problems in dating animals that eat sea food.

We can't date things that are too old. After about 10 half lifes, there is very little C-14 left to measure."

http://www.specialtyinterests.net/carbon14.html
 
Included in your post:

"Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
It is now becoming increasingly clear that the Old Testament scripture was extremely fluid until its canonization around A.D. 100."

Cannonization has nothing to do with the dates the books were written so the 1700 figure is inaccurate, especially considering Moses is estimated to live around 1400 B.C.
Yes but as has been pointed out to you, whether Moses lived at that time, or at any time, he could not possibly have written the Torah. We have been through this DOC. Did Moses write these words?
5: So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD. 6: And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Beth-peor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day. 7: And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated. 8: And the children of Israel wept for Moses in the plains of Moab thirty days: so the days of weeping and mourning for Moses were ended.
That's from the Torah. But you are now claiming in effect that he wrote Isaiah too ("Old Testament scripture", you claim he wrote) which we were discussing, and which is a mix of texts relating to the Exile in Babylon and subsequent events. The 500s BCE. Moses wrote that? Don't make me laugh!

ETA Again I commend this source to you. http://www.rejectionofpascalswager.net/authormoses.html
The various anachronisms which Moses could not possibly have been responsible for were well known to scholars from the 18th century onwards, including Voltaire, Paine and others. I would be most grateful if you could defend your views against these observations, instead of simply repeating claims of Mosaic authorship of the "scriptures" which nobody at all proposes, except (wrongly) in respect of the Pentateuch.
 
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I don't know how old the marine life is, the material that surrounds the marine life is more than likely older than the marine life it surrounds.

Also with regard to marine life: From the article: Problems with Radiometric and Carbon-14 Dating

"Are there things that can't be carbon dated?

The method doesn't work on things that didn't get their carbon from the air. This leaves out aquatic creatures since their carbon might originate from dissolved carbonate rocks limestone. This in turn causes problems in dating animals that eat sea food.

We can't date things that are too old. After about 10 half lifes, there is very little C-14 left to measure."

http://www.specialtyinterests.net/carbon14.html

DOC, why are you spamming off-topic links about carbon dating? You're the person who brought up carbon dating, and now you're arguing against yourself. This is why you are accused of dishonesty so often. Personally, I don't think you are being dishonest, I think you really don't understand what it is you're reading and arguing for.
 
And the fish, squid, and shrimp fossils in the mountains of Lebanon and Peru are estimated to have lived around ____________________ ?


I don't know how old the marine life is, the material that surrounds the marine life is more than likely older than the marine life it surrounds.


According to the article that YOU linked in the OP they're about the same age. Perhaps you should have read it.

But whatevs . . .

When did the surrounding material arrive at where it is?


Also with regard to marine life: From the article: Problems with Radiometric and Carbon-14 Dating

"Are there things that can't be carbon dated?

The method doesn't work on things that didn't get their carbon from the air. This leaves out aquatic creatures since their carbon might originate from dissolved carbonate rocks limestone. This in turn causes problems in dating animals that eat sea food.

We can't date things that are too old. After about 10 half lifes, there is very little C-14 left to measure."

http://www.specialtyinterests.net/carbon14.html


Shovel.jpg
 
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How am I arguing against myself?

Seriously?

Ok. People were talking about general radiometric dating Radiometric_datingWP, which covers far more than just carbon dating. Carbon dating is not appropriate for dating things older than about 60,000 years, which is why people were not talking about it. You then added the word {carbon} in front of 'dating', when you quoted a post earlier in the thread. You have since spent time arguing that carbon dating is problematic and shouldn't be used, WHEN YOU WERE THE PERSON WHO BROUGHT IT UP IN THE FIRST PLACE!

That's how you're arguing against yourself.
 
...I think you really don't understand what it is you're reading and arguing for...
I think many who have read this thread will now think there is something to this flood story, at least something more so than they thought before they read the thread.

I'm just putting info out there like this:

Carbon dating can only be used on materials that are less than about 50,000 years old, so it can't be used on fossils.
The ages of fossils are generally constrained by radiometric dating of suitable rocks (i.e. igneous or metamorphic) in proximity to their containing strata within the lithological sequence.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_are_the_ages_of_fossils_determined

But remember these fossils in Lebanon are in great shape and many like octopus are fully formed which is rare. This leads to the conclusion that the marine life was quickly covered while the marine life was alive.
 
I think many who have read this thread will now think there is something to this flood story, at least something more so than they thought before they read the thread.


​


I'm just putting info out there like this:

<irrelevant information>


When did the fossils (and the material surrounding them) arrive in the mountains of Lebanon?
 

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