Explosion at the Boston Marathon.

newyorkguy said:
You're saying you're sure you would immediately turn your friend into the police? I'm suggesting if you -- any of us -- were ever in that situation we might find we don't know ourselves as well as we think we do.
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You are dancing around circumstances. Let us roll it out in plain view. A man I knew was coerced into acts with which he did not agree. How? They would kill his six year old daughter if he did not comply.

He was a good man. He complied. Had I turned him in, the blood of a six year old would have been on my hands.
 
I'm not arguing an abstract theory.

Two classmates of Dzhokhar Tsarnaev did in fact, essentially, try to destroy evidence in order to protect him. This does not shock me.

I doubt I would be willing to go that far but I can't totally condemn them. I have some compassion for how they felt, why they acted the way they did.
 
newyorkguy said:
I'm not arguing an abstract theory.

Two classmates of Dzhokhar Tsarnaev did in fact, essentially, try to destroy evidence in order to protect him. This does not shock me.

I doubt I would be willing to go that far but I can't totally condemn them. I have some compassion for how they felt, why they acted the way they did.
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And I am agreeing with you. I can understand why a few young chaps might do that. Particularly, given your earlier contention that they all have not understood the seriousness of their actions, which I also agree with.

Whether or not that is a function of youth or radicalisation remains to be fully understood.
 
newyorkguy said:
You're saying you're sure you would immediately turn your friend into the police? I'm suggesting if you -- any of us -- were ever in that situation we might find we don't know ourselves as well as we think we do.
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I've been in an analogous situation. A friend of mine informed me that he stole some expensive computer equipment from our high school. I turned him into the police; and I didn't feel bad about it. Still don't.
 
Doghouse Reilly said:
... Could just be the folly of youth and not really comprehending the enormity of what they were doing.
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I thought of the folly of youth idea right away. Having engaged in a little youthful folly myself my self righteous sense of moral superiority is a bit constrained. Still my youthful folly didn't include anything like covering up for a wildly notorious bomber, and I'd like to think that my possible range of youthful follies would not have included covering up for a bomber.

For one thing, even if I had been sympathetic to the bomber I would have been very aware of the serious situation I was in. People that are blowing other people up might have friends who would be willing to kill me if they perceive I'm doing the wrong thing, while any attempts to assist with a cover up for the bombers might link me to an after the fact conspiracy or even the bombing itself. If these guys casually entered into a conspiracy to cover up for the bomber I wonder about the intelligence level of the students that the University of Massachusetts is accepting.
 
davefoc said:
For one thing, even if I had been sympathetic to the bomber I would have been very aware of the serious situation I was in.
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I'm not sure I would describe the two students as being sympathetic. Their reaction was described as "being freaked out." With a lot of people, though, the first impulse is to try and protect a friend. Especially when they have little time to think it through.

The funny thing is, if anyone should understand and empathize with how the two UMass students felt, trying to cover for a buddy, it should be the people in law enforcement. Ever heard of the Blue Code of Silence?

Knowing several cops as I do, they probably do understand.
 
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Stellafane said:
Meanwhile, Bill O'Reilly finds yet another easy target to bravely kick while they're down and have little capacity to defend themselves. My daughter just called me about this, but felt better after I explained this is simply what Mr. O'Reilly does for a living; it's nothing anyone will likely take particularly seriously.
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That and write books about historical events that are nothing but rehashes of much better books on the topic at hand.
I can name a whole slew of books on the Lincoln Assisanation that are far better then O Reilly's mediocre effort.
O Reilly can get away with it because of that old saying that if you steal from one writer it is plagarism, but from a dozen it is research.
 
davefoc said:
I thought of the folly of youth idea right away. Having engaged in a little youthful folly myself my self righteous sense of moral superiority is a bit constrained. Still my youthful folly didn't include anything like covering up for a wildly notorious bomber, and I'd like to think that my possible range of youthful follies would not have included covering up for a bomber.

For one thing, even if I had been sympathetic to the bomber I would have been very aware of the serious situation I was in. People that are blowing other people up might have friends who would be willing to kill me if they perceive I'm doing the wrong thing, while any attempts to assist with a cover up for the bombers might link me to an after the fact conspiracy or even the bombing itself. If these guys casually entered into a conspiracy to cover up for the bomber I wonder about the intelligence level of the students that the University of Massachusetts is accepting.
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We all do stupid things when we are young. When you are between the ages of 18 and 22, you know it all and are a unique genius.
But doing stupid things when young usually does not include covering up for murderers and breaking several laws in the process.
 
dudalb said:
That and write books about historical events that are nothing but rehashes of much better books on the topic at hand.
I can name a whole slew of books on the Lincoln Assisanation that are far better then O Reilly's mediocre effort.
O Reilly can get away with it because of that old saying that if you steal from one writer it is plagarism, but from a dozen it is research.
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I'd be surprised if he wrote a significant percentage of that book, pathetic as it is.
 
dudalb said:
That and write books about historical events that are nothing but rehashes of much better books on the topic at hand.
I can name a whole slew of books on the Lincoln Assisanation that are far better then O Reilly's mediocre effort.
O Reilly can get away with it because of that old saying that if you steal from one writer it is plagarism, but from a dozen it is research.
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I think what galls me most is this particular passage:

Bill O'Reilly said:
...There is obviously a problem at the University of Massachusetts,” Bill O’Reilly said in his Talking Points Memo. “What kind of students are they accepting anyway? Four bad seeds on campus, how many more?"
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I wonder how many "bad seeds" one might find by examining one of those Red State football factory schools -- students (and I use the term loosely) that weren't just accepted at the school; they were actively recruited there, with all expenses paid (and then some) through taxpayer money, only to immediately wreak havoc on the local society -- robbery, assault, rape, what have you. Wouldn't that be worthy of the sort of investigation he calls for here? Ah, but some of those schools are probably located in regions from which Mr. O'Reilly draws his core demographic, so it's just, you know, kids being kids... Meanwhile UMass Dartmouth gets taken to task for having one genuinely bad person, along with a couple or three of his misguided friends, in a student population well over 8000. Cheap, cheap shot.
 
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reports coming out now that they wanted to bomb on the 4th of July, but finish their bombs early so chose the marathon instead.

sorry on my phone I can't link
 
Report in the New York Times:

The surviving suspect in the Boston Marathon bombings told F.B.I. interrogators that he and his brother considered suicide attacks and striking on the Fourth of July as they plotted their deadly assault, according to two law enforcement officials.

But the suspect, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, 19, told investigators that he and his brother, Tamerlan, 26, who was killed in a shootout with the police, ultimately decided to use pressure-cooker bombs and other homemade explosive devices, the officials said.

The brothers finished building the bombs in Tamerlan’s apartment in Cambridge, Mass., faster than they had anticipated, and so decided to accelerate their attack to the Boston Marathon on April 15, Patriots’ Day in Massachusetts, from July, according to the account that Dzhokhar provided authorities. They picked the finish line of the marathon after driving around the Boston area looking for alternative sites, according to this account.

Boston Suspects Planned Attacks for July Fourth
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Magenta said:
The complaint doesn't make clear what happened to the laptop after it was taken from Tsarnaev's dorm room. Appears only the backpack containing fireworks was put in the dumpster and later recovered from the landfill?
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More detail on the laptop:

Meanwhile, the lawyer for a Kazakh national charged with trying to destroy evidence in the bombing case said Thursday that his client turned over the bombing suspect’s laptop computer to the FBI four days after the deadly explosions.

The computer, which could hold key information about reasons and planning for the bombing, was handed to FBI agents during their first interview with Dias Kadyrbayev, according to his attorney, Robert G. Stahl.

Boston Marathon bombing suspects initially planned July 4th attack
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Tamerlan Tsarnaev's body has been released to relatives in the US:

On Thursday afternoon, the body of Tamerlan Tsarnaev, Dzhokhar’s brother, was released from the state medical examiner’s office to an uncle, Ruslan Tsarni of Maryland, and Tamerlan’s two sisters, according to a Russian human-rights worker.

[...]

A cause of death will be made public once a funeral-service provider files a death certificate, said Terrel Harris, a spokesman for the office.

Kheda Saratova, a human-rights worker, said the Tsarnaev family does not intend to bury Tamerlan until they find an independent coroner to deliver an opinion. The Tsarnaevs have remained dubious of reports that police were taking Tamerlan into custody when Dzhokhar reportedly ran him over.

“The family is afraid that if Tamerlan is buried before they get all the answers, many secrets will be buried with him, and this will make it harder for Dzhokhar to defend himself in court,” Saratova said.

Boston Marathon bombing suspects initially planned July 4th attack
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abaddon said:
And I am agreeing with you. I can understand why a few young chaps might do that. Particularly, given your earlier contention that they all have not understood the seriousness of their actions, which I also agree with.

Whether or not that is a function of youth or radicalisation remains to be fully understood.
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It could also simply be a function of these young kids being just plain stupid.
 
Stellafane said:
I think what galls me most is this particular passage:

I wonder how many "bad seeds" one might find by examining one of those Red State football factory schools -- students (and I use the term loosely) that weren't just accepted at the school; they were actively recruited there, with all expenses paid (and then some) through taxpayer money, only to immediately wreak havoc on the local society -- robbery, assault, rape, what have you. Wouldn't that be worthy of the sort of investigation he calls for here? Ah, but some of those schools are probably located in regions from which Mr. O'Reilly draws his core demographic, so it's just, you know, kids being kids... Meanwhile UMass Dartmouth gets taken to task for having one genuinely bad person, along with a couple or three of his misguided friends, in a student population well over 8000. Cheap, cheap shot.
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[politics]

Well, cheap shots is pretty much all O'Reilly's got these days.

[/politics]
 
abaddon said:
And I am agreeing with you. I can understand why a few young chaps might do that.

Whether or not that is a function of youth or radicalisation remains to be fully understood.
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On the assumption that they did in fact try to dispose of the backpack and did have reason to believe he was involved in the terrorist act I cannot understand why a few young chaps might do that. We are not talking about flushing an once of pot down the toilet we are talking about multiple gruesome murders.

Particularly, given your earlier contention that they all have not understood the seriousness of their actions, which I also agree with.
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How could they not have understood the seriousness?
 
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