Continuation Part 5: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Dan O.]

I understand your frustration and I know you went over this in detail with Tesla but if you have an executive version of the story of Raf and his computing I'm sure it would be appreciated.

It's all in the wiki page "Computer Activity".

 

[Grinder]

It's all in the wiki page "Computer Activity".

Okay I still need to register but if I manage that may I post parts of it here?

 

[Grinder]

Well it is all clear now. Amanda made a call to her mom at a time that the PGP think she should have been calling the police, which proves she knew of the death and told her mother. Her mother told her to lie and she'd come there forthwith and take care of her.

 

[Dan O.]

Okay I still need to register but if I manage that may I post parts of it here?

The content may be reposted. Just don't publicly link to that wiki. Someday i hope to creae a wiki that can be public. But that isn't going to happen until there are many more contributors maintaining it.

Everything there should have links back to the original source of the information. Nothing should be private. Do keep in mind when posting that the wiki is a live repository. The information it contains will change as new information is discovered. What gets posted to blogs and forums is generally fixed at the time it is posted so may become outdated but still shows up in google searches.

 

[anglolawyer]

Well it is all clear now. Amanda made a call to her mom at a time that the PGP think she should have been calling the police, which proves she knew of the death and told her mother. Her mother told her to lie and she'd come there forthwith and take care of her.

somehow forgetting to tell her to be on her guard and hire a lawyer and somehow also knowing not to say anything incriminating somehow knowing all their calls thereafter would be monitored.

 

[Grinder]

Australian interview here

This is radio. I suggest people listen to this and pretend not to have an opinion.

I think in fairness people should note that she has poor selection of words and phrases.

I think she tries too hard to be too articulate and comes off poorly. I believe these are otiose efforts.

 

[Bill Williams]

Australian interview here

This is radio. I suggest people listen to this and pretend not to have an opinion.

I think in fairness people should note that she has poor selection of words and phrases.

I think she tries too hard to be too articulate and comes off poorly. I believe these are otiose efforts.

At least it is in situ. I'm just saying.....

 

[Bill Williams]

But how on earth he could say even for a moment that she had been out for so long if he knew that she had always been with him?

He was scared out of his mind. He knuckled under to the pressure, to get the cops off his back, thinking it would all get straightened out later because it was so ridiculous, and he has regretted it ever since. Do you want me to give some examples of other people who have done the same thing?

The one thing no one needs to demonstrate is the reality of people who crack under interrogation, and falsely confess or falsely give information.

I think I've posted it here 100 times, but the case in Regina, Saskatchewan, of some boys who confessed to raping a girl played big in Canada a few years ago. It was one of the first times the Canadian media covered the effects of the Reid Technique of interrogation on the young.

And remember - the purpose of a police interview is to elicit information, the purpose of an interrogation is to get them to confess.

In Regina - Regina, Saskatchewan, for pete's sake! - the boys were eventually cleared because of the forensics. The ONLY difference between that case and Knox/Sollecito's case is that once the forensics cleared the two, they were still kept in detention and the cops went back 46 days later to find something, anything!

But the boy in Regina was asked why he'd confessed to something he didn't do. "They get to you, they wear you down. One minute you're protesting your innocence, the next minute you hear yourself say things and you're not really sure why you're saying them."

This is not rocket science, people. It is complete confirmation bias to suggest that somehow this phenomenon does not apply in the horrible murder of Meredith Kercher investigation. Those who had "Buckled in interrogation and told us what we already knew," should have simply been released when the first set of forensics came back.

But then - acc. to Machiavelli this is all a Masonic conspiracy anyway, and you really cannot trust the evidence. Judge Hellmann is a Mason, acc. to Machiavelli, and that explains everything.

 

[bookworm]

I think so, too. Especially not at a time when the others could drop in anytime.
Unless, for example, there is something at the scene pointing to the person, which must be removed at all cost.

I don't know if she went back to the cottage next morning. Apart from her claim what is the evidence that she really entered the cottage?

Well, her clothes were on the bed. There's no evidence she was there the night before either.

 

[Dan O.]

Australian interview...

I think she tries too hard to be too articulate and comes off poorly. I believe these are otiose efforts.

I think what you are confusing with trying too hard to articulate is actually caused by feedback from the phone system. It's very difficult to speak when there is a delayed echo comming back to you or the noise level chops in and out as you talk.

 

[acbytesla]

The one thing no one needs to demonstrate is the reality of people who crack under interrogation, and falsely confess or falsely give information.

I think I've posted it here 100 times, but the case in Regina, Saskatchewan, of some boys who confessed to raping a girl played big in Canada a few years ago. It was one of the first times the Canadian media covered the effects of the Reid Technique of interrogation on the young.

And remember - the purpose of a police interview is to elicit information, the purpose of an interrogation is to get them to confess.

In Regina - Regina, Saskatchewan, for pete's sake! - the boys were eventually cleared because of the forensics. The ONLY difference between that case and Knox/Sollecito's case is that once the forensics cleared the two, they were still kept in detention and the cops went back 46 days later to find something, anything!

But the boy in Regina was asked why he'd confessed to something he didn't do. "They get to you, they wear you down. One minute you're protesting your innocence, the next minute you hear yourself say things and you're not really sure why you're saying them."

This is not rocket science, people. It is complete confirmation bias to suggest that somehow this phenomenon does not apply in the horrible murder of Meredith Kercher investigation. Those who had "Buckled in interrogation and told us what we already knew," should have simply been released when the first set of forensics came back.

But then - acc. to Machiavelli this is all a Masonic conspiracy anyway, and you really cannot trust the evidence. Judge Hellmann is a Mason, acc. to Machiavelli, and that explains everything.

Remember Bill, the police got him to admit that Amanda "may have gone out that night" basically saying that he wasn't awake all night and like all of us, we don't really know what happens during are sleep.

After thinking about this he came to realize that this statement couldn't be true since Amanda "didn't have a key".

This really has to be one of the dumbest arguments ever.

If you subtract whatever happened during the police interrogation on the 5th, Amanda and Raffaele's stories have always been consistent except for some very very minor details. Unfortunately Bolint thinks that they were serving Amanda and Raffaele tea and cookies and this was all just a very polite interview.

Frankly, it is downright stupid not to believe that Amanda and Raffaele are innocent of this crime. There is NO MOTIVE, there is NO HISTORY OF VIOLENCE, there is NO HISTORY OF PSYCHOLOGICAL PROBLEMS and there wasn't a LONG RELATIONSHIP between Amanda and Raffaele. (7 days). And there is NO CONNECTION TO RUDY... NO EMAILS...NO TEXTS...NO PHONE CALLS....EVER...EVER....EVER.

Rudy the killer, the burglar...the guy who pulled a knife on Christian Tremantano while he was robbing his place, the guy caught days before red handed having broken into the Nursery in Milan..where the first thing he took was KNIFE. And he had in his possession the laptop stolen during a burglary at a law firm in Perugia as well as a woman's gold watch very much like the one stolen during a burglary from Rudy's neighbor's home where the burglar also ACTUALLY SET FIRE to the HOME.

YET, this scumbag....managed to be able to walk into Amanda and Raffaele's trial and say that Amanda was at the cottage during the murder...even though that contradicted his own words during the Skype call to his friend Giaccomo. This piece of pond scum who will probably be out of prison before this absurd farce is over.

 

[Dan O.]

Acbytesla, haven't you been warned about making unfounded insults here?

I think you owe an appology to pond scum for making that viscous comparison.

 

[Grinder]

I think what you are confusing with trying too hard to articulate is actually caused by feedback from the phone system. It's very difficult to speak when there is a delayed echo comming back to you or the noise level chops in and out as you talk.

I doubt they were using an Internet system. Land lines give near perfect connections. My SO calls there regularly without issues.

I can only remember one example off-hand, she says that she maintained the same story except for interrogation night. My opinion is that it would have come off better had she said that she told the police from day one what she had been doing which was hanging out at Raf's. "Only once did I say anything else and that was when the police with the help of the person supposedly helping me understand convinced me that I had forgotten. Within hours I wrote them that the statement wasn't accurate but they ignored that."

I think she comes off badly and it helps me understand why the PLE thought she was guilty.

"Verity" "mask of an assassin" "crawling through barbed wire" etc.

 

[acbytesla]

Acbytesla, haven't you been warned about making unfounded insults here?

I think you owe an appology to pond scum for making that viscous comparison.

You're 100% right Dan O.

Sorry Pond Scum.... Comparing you to a low life like Rudy...burglar and a killer was unfair of me. I know that Pond Scum actually encourages life and has a purpose. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said about Rudy.

 

[Mary_H]

<snip>
I don't know if she went back to the cottage next morning. Apart from her claim what is the evidence that she really entered the cottage?

LOL -- that's a new one!

 

[acbytesla]

I doubt they were using an Internet system. Land lines give near perfect connections. My SO calls there regularly without issues.

I can only remember one example off-hand, she says that she maintained the same story except for interrogation night. My opinion is that it would have come off better had she said that she told the police from day one what she had been doing which was hanging out at Raf's. "Only once did I say anything else and that was when the police with the help of the person supposedly helping me understand convinced me that I had forgotten. Within hours I wrote them that the statement wasn't accurate but they ignored that."

I think she comes off badly and it helps me understand why the PLE thought she was guilty.

"Verity" "mask of an assassin" "crawling through barbed wire" etc.

It sure doesn't seem that way to me Grinder. But it's clear that people are analyzing her every word and sentence etc to the point of absurdum.

The more people look on this, the less they see. Just the right amount of regret....the right amount of anger...the right amount of sorrow...answer the questions quickly...but not too quickly. Look at the interviewer..but don't stare... Be Genuine..but be careful of every word....

ENOUGH TO DRIVE ANYONE CRAZY.

 

[Mary_H]

Mary and BR1 it always did seem to me that some of the PG women did seem to have an issue with Amanda that none of the men reporters did.

Do we really need to have this conversation? Anyone who is pro-guilt, whether male or female, and there are plenty of both, has issues with Amanda (and with Raffaele).

It did seem that many of the most hateful of the PGP were also women.

Which leaves the rest of the most hateful of the PGP, who are men.

I do believe that there is some sub-conscious workings about with many of these women. It seems some took on Meredith as the child they never had or a child they had lost. Also Barbie and Vogt and the queen of the other side all had been or were ex-pats and had a special resentment towards Amanda and her family's American attitudes. Remember the attacks because Curt allegedly brought food from home? Also, read the queen on Burleigh. She attacks her for not loving France and the French women.

All of the same can be said for pro-guilt men. As for subconscious workings, I'm sure there are many among the PIP, as well.

Although, I'm not of the school that the Italians started off hating Amanda because of being an American I do believe that certain reporters and bloggers did.

ETA - Vogt actually worked with and works with the queen of the PGP. I believe Barbie may also have a relationship. I think all three had a special relationship with Meredith, seeing her as they wished they had been when young.

The danger Bri1 and I were protesting (and I do appreciate the fact that you picked up on my protest, which may have been overly subtle), is this, which Bri1 put so very well:

You are displaying exactly the kind of thinking about female jealousy that was displayed by the prosecution in trying to create a motive.

It may be true that some of the women who hated and resented Amanda felt that way because they were jealous of her, or thought they were jealous of her. If you are raised in a patriarchal culture that upholds beliefs about women being jealous of one another, then your feelings and behavior are likely to follow. It's important to keep in mind, though, that these are cultural beliefs, and that men and women are not necessarily naturally competitive or jealous of one another.

From what I have seen, both Barbie and Andrea are likely to have reasons for being pro-guilt other than concerns about someone else's sexuality, youth or beauty, which were the stereotypes evoked by the original comment. There is stronger evidence, for example, that many of the PGP resent Amanda and Raffaele for what they wrongly perceive as economic or social privilege.

God only knows what troubles Snape.

I'm 100% with you on that one.

 

[Supernaut]

Well, now we know how tortured whores write. Do you have a collection of their books, Randy?

I know you're a bit a touchy about female stereotyping and pejoratives MaryH, but I think with someone like Randy in full, incandescant-with-rage flow you'll have to cut him some slack, especially given that he's probably our generation, and hasn't quite managed to un-learn his political-incorrectness.

 

[GWCarver]

I know you're a bit a touchy about female stereotyping and pejoratives MaryH, but I think with someone like Randy in full, incandescant-with-rage flow you'll have to cut him some slack, especially given that he's probably our generation, and hasn't quite managed to un-learn his political-incorrectness.

I love to hear Randy vent. He is actually very good at it, and always tells a story.

 

[Supernaut]

But at least don't say that there were only minor discrepancies in their statements. We know that Washington and Lincoln both had beards except for Washington.

So, for whatever reason, their statements were in contradiction materially.
It would be honest to admit at least that.




Hmmm, I thought he never changed his consistent story.
Well, because his alibi collapsed.
But how on earth he could say even for a moment that she had been out for so long if he knew that she had always been with him?

After being stripped completely naked in front of a couple of cops and a female doctor (ditto Lumumba, and as Amanda was in front of a male doctor) in the early hours of November 6th, 2007, a cop told him that if he tried to get up he would "leave him in a pool of blood on the floor".


This stripping of arrestees in front of personnel of the opposite sex appears to be a routine psychological torture/humiliation that italian "law enforcement" deems appropriate in "getting to the truth".


But obviously, this doesn't explain why Raff "changed his story" on that particular evening - only a complete milquetoast would have been intimidated by any of this.