Continuation Part 5: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[JREF2010]

That machine on which he claimed to have worked was not destroyed. The hard disks were cloned in the presence of hos expert and he received a copy.
Unfortunately no trace of his activity was found on it even by his own experts.



Oh yes, the mythical screensaver evidence wich easily destroys Mignini, but somehow does not want to show up.




During the whole period of 5:32 to 6:22.
But no sign of activity before that.

Even if the screensaver evidence existed it would only show that he spent the whole night moving the mouse without producing or using a single file, without startin a program and without using the internet.

So what was he doing on that computer all night long?

)

Wasn't it said they didnt look for a certain type of data?

The Goofball police who showed, with a preponderance of evidence, their total incompetence.
Additionally the Goofbal Computer "experts" ill ability to treat critical evidence as such, instead surfing the internet on Raffaeles computers.

If someone is so obstinate to defend the proof of incompetence, then what more can be said.

So now we have incompetent computer goofballs saying to the courts "we didnt find anything."

lol...its either insanity, corruption, or ignorance...take your pick to name tyhe police computer "experts"

 

[Bill Williams]

This is like playing whack-a-mole.

On another service, someone thought they had solved the case in favour of guilt by saying, "Well, if you cannot trust the forensic evidence against Sollecito and Knox, why would you trust the evidence against Rudy? Shouldn't you throw both out?"

When it was pointed out that the first forensic collection/sweep of the cottage found a predictable & complete set of forensics against Guede and nothing against Sollecito, the accusation was that this was yet another FOAKer Groupie factoid.

Sigh.

Even guilter author John Follain agrees with this timeline. It's what people mean when they demand that you have to put things comprehensively onto a timeline.

When this "someone" was told that it took almost 7 weeks for the forensic people to go back - they went back into a cottage already "unsealed" as a crime scene. For instance, Meredith mattrass had been dragged into the kitchen, and the bloody sweatshirt Meredith had been wearing was found moved and in a hamper - ie. NOT collected and tested as if evidence.

Once again, this was called a groupie factoid. Then when they were asked to view the very video the scientific police themselves released, showing the bra-clasp moved.... and the dirty gloves.... etc. still this was called, are you ready....

.... part of the massive PR campaign.

I began to think, "Thank God for PR campaigns."

 

[acbytesla]

Preposterous.

Raffaele and Amanda have always given consistent accounts, albeit with the minor discrepancies that show up in any witness testimony. The phone records bear them out. Everything they describe is exactly consistent with people stumbling across a murder scene when they least expect it.

They're telling the truth.

Meredith was lying stone dead on the floor of a room awash with blood, with her throat torn open. Amanda and Raffaele would have nothing to do with any such crime. And if they had even the slightest inkling it had happened, they would have been utterly freaked out, panic-stricken. They would not have been able to pull off what they did on the morning of Nov. 2. They would not have tried.

The ability of people to look at Amanda Knox and see a cold, violent psychopath amazes me. It's a textbook example of mass delusion, of people seeing what they are told to see rather than what is really there.

I haven't posted this link for awhile. I guess it's time...

http://www.historylink.org/index.cfm?DisplayPage=output.cfm&File_Id=5136

Great article, but there are example of this kind of phenomenon all the time. A better example IMO are some of the lies told by politicians and the news media. Look at how many people that believe the Iraq had something to do with 9-11. Or the number of people who believe that Obama was born in Kenya. Nixon when he ran and won his first Senate seat, he painted his opponent Helen Gahagan Dougles as a Communist. He declared she may not be RED..but definitely PINK. Nixon came from well behind to win the Senate race by 22 points because he convinced the state of California that Ms Douglass was a Communist. He always knew Mrs. Douglass wasn't a Communist.

Goebbels Hitler's gifted propagandist called it the big lie. The vast majority of Germans had no problem with the Jews in 1925. Other than a few crazies, most of the county could have care less. Hitler and his cronies then set out to convince it's citizens that Jews were the devil and needed to be stamped out of existence.

Think of all the wives tales that have no scientific backing that are assumed to be true.

Some of these people were sold a bill of goods right at the beginning and they began vilifying Amanda from day one. Now they have so much invested in her guilt that Meredith could come back alive and tell them they were wrong and still they wouldn't give up the ghost.

They own this and it would be embarrassing to admit that they were wrong all along. They've been wrong for 5 years so why not make it a lifetime?

 

[Grinder]

The Big Lie (German: Große Lüge) is a propaganda technique. The expression was coined by Adolf Hitler, when he dictated his 1925 book Mein Kampf, about the use of a lie so "colossal" that no one would believe that someone "could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously." Hitler asserted the technique was used by Jews to unfairly blame Germany's loss in World War I on German Army officer Erich Ludendorff.

Another modern example is large projects coming in ahead of schedule and under budget -

 

[Mary_H]

Amanda had to deal with a sleazy official who made suggestive comments, and one prison worker embraced her and kissed her, but she managed to break free.

This was a horrific experience for her, but it pales next to many prison accounts. Amanda's book is not primarily a story of prison abuse. Most of the handling she describes is not intentionally cruel or abusive. Her book is the story of a happy, cheerful college girl, living in a bubble of naive bliss, who suddenly finds herself subject to the treatment reserved for violent criminals. Its narrative power hinges on an understanding that she is completely innocent, but nobody believes her. Vogt doesn't have that understanding. So Vogt is scoring the text on details, indulging her tedious conviction that the police can do no wrong and Amanda is lying about everything.

I can't imagine that people outside Vogt's sick little cult will get the point of that article or find it interesting.

I agree. Vogt's nitpicking is along the lines of the old question of who brought up Patrick's name first at the interrogation. These are desperate, petty people with desperate, petty arguments.

 

[RandyN]

Vogt and Nadeau...two of Mignini's sock puppets. What is it about these two women? Im going with dried up old hags who resent a younger more beautiful woman with whom in their best days...they couldn't compare.

And it comes out in tortured reporting of lies, misinformation, and an not at all transparent bias against the younger woman. No one certainly believes either of these two are simply reporters on a case. Both write more like tortured whores trying to eke out that last dollar from that one last trick. Both capitalizing on the death of Kercher in the worst possible way...well at least on the same level of say a Maresca...same the same.

The guilt squad accuse Knox of capitalizing on the death. Nothing could be further from the truth. Knox is forced to fight for her very life. And the Italians are the blame for that. They clearly intend to haunt this poor girl until things are so confused that they can then silently make it all disappear....They have already bankrupted her family and now they wish to contain her efforts to get the family back in the black?

Besides Vogt and Neadau should concentrate on the attack of the Italians against clearly innocent persons. They want to investigate inconsistencies...how about Migninis whole case? Or lets just pick parts. We forgot to record. We could not afford to record...start right there. Pin him down with his own words. Cant afford to record but yet wiretaps 30 THOUSAND phone calls related to RS family. Ding ding!! Hey Mignini how come you can wire tap 30 thousand phone calls? Oh I see you meant forgot to record.

Mignini in your 187 thousand Euro cartoon you show AK and RS and RG in Miss Kerchers room. They are all killing her. How do you explain the lack of evidence of any kind inside that room for anyone except for Kercher and Guede? Do you still think they did this as you portrayed to the court in the first trial? Yes? Well what about the no evidence thing? Oh you meant no. Well then how is it you intend to prove AK and RS were involved in any way? Oh...you will have Neadau and Vogt write stories...LOL...good luck with that. Follian? Yes another whore who cant figure out which end is which on a pencil.

Shameless lying corruption. Intended to cover a foolish, insane investigation and false arrest and unlawful jailing of two innocent persons. Mignini...do you really think at the end of the day you will get away with this? You will not! I know a couple of thousand people who have watched your every crooked move and can reveal the phony behind the curtain.

Hellmann had it partially right. He was only wrong in covering for the shameful prosecutors case. He tried to give you an out...but now he asks and we ask ....who will get the task of being the excuse for trying to convict innocent persons with such a weak non existent illogical case? How do you think you can escape it?

A foolish unintelligent parody of what justice should look like. Do you think we will not chase you? The European Court Of Human Rights? We have your words...your interviews. We have Italian judges who have quit in protest of the corruption of the judiciary. And now we see the corruption goes all the way to the top...the Supreme Court of Italy.

I cant wait to hear what these boneheads have as an motivational excuse. Im betting its something along the lines of dignity and truth similar to the Italian Captain of the cruise ship...you remember the one...he tripped and fell into a life boat while his passengers were drowning?

This is you and the Italians who line up behind you. The same level of stupid bravado. Using the power of the country to bankrupt clearly innocent persons. Oh what you say? She named an innocent man Lumumba? No your police named the man Lumumba. Knox couldn't even speak Italian so how could she name anyone? Do you corrupt fools think the whole world is blind or dumb? Trust me ...your fake case will be fully revealed.

So far you have throttled the truth with threats and repeated additional prosecutions. You keep your press in chains... we will sue...charge you with crimes. I haven't seen such an example of blinded sheep since Hitler decided to lie about the Jews. And like the Germans then... the Italians now simply cant finger what is exactly wrong. They know something is not quite right...but they have doubts.

So how did that meeting go? Listen Knox is about to publish her book. How can we save ourselves? I know lets overturn her appeal decision. We can figure out the details later. Well SC we are waiting. The 90 day clock is running. Counting down to the time you must go before the world and actually....I cant wait to hear what you come up with. I am sure it will be laughable and illogical and illegal....just not in Italy. Good luck with that.

 

[Mary_H]

<snip>And it comes out in tortured reporting of lies, misinformation, and an not at all transparent bias against the younger woman. No one certainly believes either of these two are simply reporters on a case. Both write more like tortured whores trying to eke out that last dollar from that one last trick. Both capitalizing on the death of Kercher in the worst possible way...well at least on the same level of say a Maresca...same the same.
<snip>

Well, now we know how tortured whores write. Do you have a collection of their books, Randy?

 

[bolint]

and when he gave them the computer as an alibi it ended up getting the data wiped after ~9:07. ?

This is a legend. Based on the logic: No sign of activity, so it must have been deleted by the evil cops.
They could not delete internet traffic log at the ISP. And amazingly there was no traffic, while he said had been browsing the net.

So no matter how you try to save this, he simply lied. He did not use that computer that night until 5:32AM. That simple.

I'm still waiting the details of the mythical screensaver evidence.

My bet it is a pure bunkum.

No way you use the mouse eight hours and you don't access a single file.

That they were dancing around the computer thereby vibrating the mouse is indeed good for a joke.

 

[bolint]

Raffaele and Amanda have always given consistent accounts, albeit with the minor discrepancies that show up in any witness testimony.[/url]

Always, yeah ...
E.g.
"She came home at around 1AM"

That's what you call a minor discrepancy?

 

[bri1]

Vogt and Nadeau...two of Mignini's sock puppets. What is it about these two women? Im going with dried up old hags who resent a younger more beautiful woman with whom in their best days...they couldn't compare.

And it comes out in tortured reporting of lies, misinformation, and an not at all transparent bias against the younger woman. No one certainly believes either of these two are simply reporters on a case. Both write more like tortured whores trying to eke out that last dollar from that one last trick. Both capitalizing on the death of Kercher in the worst possible way...well at least on the same level of say a Maresca...same the same.

Randy, the despicableness of Vogt and Nadeau's 'journalism' has nothing to do with the fact that they're women- the problem is that they're guilters, and refuse to update their views based on evidence. Male journalists such as Nick Pisa have been equally terrible.
You are displaying exactly the kind of thinking about female jealousy that was displayed by the prosecution in trying to create a motive.
To say that Vogt and Nadeau are jealous of Amanda because she's young and attractive is just as ridiculous as the guilter meme that says that those who argue for innocence do so because we're all middle age men who are attracted to Amanda.
Having said all of that Vogt's BBC article made me sick.

 

[bolint]

You do realize Raffaele wasn't using his own computer that night, but the one of his sisters that he had?

While constantly keeping off the screensaver of the other one?

Nice try, but he himeself said that he had not used the other computer for quite a while.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

Always, yeah ...
E.g.
"She came home at around 1AM"

That's what you call a minor discrepancy?

Sure, he buckled when they put the screws to him. That was the night the recording equipment suddenly failed, or they forgot to turn it on, or the recording was lost, or they ran into a budget crisis, depending on which of the official stories you want to believe.

Why do you think he did that? Why did he change his story, and then change it back later?

 

[bolint]

Sure, he buckled when they put the screws to him.

But at least don't say that there were only minor discrepancies in their statements. We know that Washington and Lincoln both had beards except for Washington.

So, for whatever reason, their statements were in contradiction materially.
It would be honest to admit at least that.

Why do you think he did that? Why did he change his story, and then change it back later?

Hmmm, I thought he never changed his consistent story.
Well, because his alibi collapsed.
But how on earth he could say even for a moment that she had been out for so long if he knew that she had always been with him?

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

But at least don't say that there were only minor discrepancies in their statements. We know that Washington and Lincoln both had beards except for Washington.

So, for whatever reason, their statements were in contradiction materially.
It would be honest to admit at least that.

I should have qualified my comment. They told a consistent story when they were first questioned. They stuck with that story until the night of the 5th, when they both told, or acquiesced to, stories that were wildly different from their original stories. Then, when they had time to think, after they talked to their lawyers, they reverted to their original stories.

Hmmm, I thought he never changed his consistent storry.
Well, because his alibi collapsed.

Did it? In what way did his alibi collapse? Why did he go back to his original story after he talked to his lawyers, if his alibi had collapsed?

But how on earth he could say even for a moment that she had been out for so long if he knew that she had always been with him?

He was scared out of his mind. He knuckled under to the pressure, to get the cops off his back, thinking it would all get straightened out later because it was so ridiculous, and he has regretted it ever since. Do you want me to give some examples of other people who have done the same thing?

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

Randy, the despicableness of Vogt and Nadeau's 'journalism' has nothing to do with the fact that they're women- the problem is that they're guilters, and refuse to update their views based on evidence. Male journalists such as Nick Pisa have been equally terrible.
You are displaying exactly the kind of thinking about female jealousy that was displayed by the prosecution in trying to create a motive.
To say that Vogt and Nadeau are jealous of Amanda because she's young and attractive is just as ridiculous as the guilter meme that says that those who argue for innocence do so because we're all middle age men who are attracted to Amanda.
Having said all of that Vogt's BBC article made me sick.

I agree that gender is not the issue here, because John Follain has done more damage than Vogt and Nadeau combined, but Nick Pisa did change his mind when Amanda testified. He didn't come right out and say it, but his attitude and his reporting changed. He realized she was telling the truth.

 

[Grinder]

I agree. Vogt's nitpicking is along the lines of the old question of who brought up Patrick's name first at the interrogation. These are desperate, petty people with desperate, petty arguments.

Oho.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

I am not saying, but you can imagine

This is a legend. Based on the logic: No sign of activity, so it must have been deleted by the evil cops.
They could not delete internet traffic log at the ISP. And amazingly there was no traffic, while he said had been browsing the net.

Both Andrea Vogt and Frank Sfarzo reported that the [redacted] used a computer early on 6 November. It's tough to present a defense in this area when you might get slapped with a defamation suit. Isn't it great that defendants can lie on the stand but if they tell the truth, they have to face the wrath of the [redacted] in the form of a defamation suit.

 

[Dan O.]

Everything bolint is bringing up has been discussed in depth long ago. But bolint is jumping back in with the old guilter memes and ignoring the facts that had already discredited them.

If anyone is new here and needs clarification on the resolution of any of the points bolint brings up, please ask. But I don't feel obliged to debate someone that so blatantely ignores the known facts.

 

[Grinder]

Mary and BR1 it always did seem to me that some of the PG women did seem to have an issue with Amanda that none of the men reporters did. It did seem that many of the most hateful of the PGP were also women. I do believe that there is some sub-conscious workings about with many of these women. It seems some took on Meredith as the child they never had or a child they had lost. Also Barbie and Vogt and the queen of the other side all had been or were ex-pats and had a special resentment towards Amanda and her family's American attitudes. Remember the attacks because Curt allegedly brought food from home? Also, read the queen on Burleigh. She attacks her for not loving France and the French women.

Although, I'm not of the school that the Italians started off hating Amanda because of being an American I do believe that certain reporters and bloggers did.

ETA - Vogt actually worked with and works with the queen of the PGP. I believe Barbie may also have a relationship. I think all three had a special relationship with Meredith, seeing her as they wished they had been when young. God only knows what troubles Snape.

 

[Grinder]

Everything bolint is bringing up has been discussed in depth long ago. But bolint is jumping back in with the old guilter memes and ignoring the facts that had already discredited them.

If anyone is new here and needs clarification on the resolution of any of the points bolint brings up, please ask. But I don't feel obliged to debate someone that so blatantely ignores the known facts.

I understand your frustration and I know you went over this in detail with Tesla but if you have an executive version of the story of Raf and his computing I'm sure it would be appreciated.