Merged The Origin of Two Different Colors of WTC Dust

Oh I absolutely understand what those words mean

The more you ignore people who have done studies, have experience in scientific fields, are professionals in engineering, plane crash research, etc., the more I feel that way about you.
You can't even answer Jim_MDP's request...Because your DNA testing is questionable....:rolleyes:

Actually, not true. Before I did anything with the dust samples, I read the USGA surveys and Jones', Millette, Henry-Couannier, and Wood's work. These people have done studies on the WTC dust, except Wood, who has studied the dust from documentary evidence.

Plane crash research is not relevant to the destruction of the WTC. Engineering is somewhat relevant, but not if you understand that what happened was advanced weaponry and if what was needed to figure all that out was research science. Engineers are not research scientists, unless they have additional training in research science.
 
Well, that took longer than I thought it would. 11pm on the East coast, probably wont hear from Tracy till tomorrow.





That's a good point, but it's actually worse than that.

TWO towers means FOUR separate dispersals. How did the two dark and two light masses coalesce into just one of each?

:boggled:

I don't understand the question.
 
How on earth would that fact lead to any conclusion more extravagant than that one substance contains some kind of unknown DNA of unknown source and quality and for some as of yet unknown reason the other one doesn't? That they are maybe not even related to each other? Is this once again the result of some kind of backwards reasoning, starting with the largely unsupported assumption that both "dust" samples simply have to originate from the same event, because otherwise they are worthless for your purpose?




I don't know if this paper that "somebody wrote" is this here or this or this one, but while all of them do say that WTC dust contains a large amount of "man-made vitreous fibers", they certainly do not imply that fibers = WTC dust. The presence of fibers in dust is nothing out of the ordinary. If someone would be trying to confirm if his dust sample (or some of it) likely originates from the WTC collapse, he would be mainly looking for slag wool and - to a lesser extent - rock wool and soda-lime glass, in combination with a relatively large amount of gypsum and cement particles (which is, btw, a much simpler and more realistic method than DNA testing, of all things). You, on the other hand, don't appear to have confirmed at all what kind of fibers you have in your sample(s) and how high their approx. relative amount is, nor does it look like you have the possibilities to do so.




You merely assume that it is "almost entirely iron fragments" after looking at some pictures that show metallic looking particles and some relatively small amount of what appears to be iron oxide. Of course you never established how much of it actually is iron and how high it's amount is in comparision with other materials present in the same chunk (which remain mostly unidentified, too). If it actually was "almost entirely" iron, btw, your magnet experiment probably would have shown a much more conclusive result than the one visible in that video.

Still, all of the above is hardly relevant anyway, because - as many people here have pointed out already - even if it was proven that at least some of your "dust" did originate from the WTC collapse - which is perfectly possible - this doesn't get you any closer to proving anything regarding your dustyfoaming energy weapon theory. It would just mean that you possess some dirt that contains a certain amount of WTC dust and maybe also a significant amount of metal/iron particles of undetermined origin.




I bolded the part that alone makes your assumption pretty much worthless. Not only is this process not known - it is not even shown that it is theoretically possible or that the results would look anything like your "dust", so all this unbased speculation is pointless to begin with.

One of the many problems here is, of course, the "ambient temperature" part, which you apparently only insist on because for some strange reason you refuse to accept that a significant amount of ca. 200 office building stories worth of paper, of which probably less than 10% were subjected to major fires before the collapses, could remain unburned.




This so-called "Meteor" is actually most commonly called "Compression" by people who have access to it, which pretty much hints at what it is already - parts of several stories of an undetermined WTC tower, compressed to a height of a few feet and apparently baked in the rubble pile. According to people who have seen it, there are not only concrete and steel, but also bathroom tiles, plumbing and pieces of carbonized paper visible in it, and according to one of the preservationists of Hangar 17, "every inch" has been examined and photographed by them, so your (comparably) uninformed photo analysis identifying "foamed steel" in some low resolution picture of it is pretty much worthless, and it certainly doesn't have anything to do with "science".

Do you think the following two types of WTC dust arose from different events?
 

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Can you point out the almost entirely iron and empty space in this floor plan please?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/53/Nistncstar1-1-fig2-4.png

Everywhere there is a big X is a nearly empty space. There's an elevator inside there, but it doesn't occupy very much of the space at any one time. There are some cables, maybe some rubber and plastic, too. But those Xs are nearly empty. The steel came from the core columns that formed the supporting structure of the building.
 
Actually, not true. Before I did anything with the dust samples, I read the USGA surveys and Jones', Millette, Henry-Couannier, and Wood's work. These people have done studies on the WTC dust, except Wood, who has studied the dust from documentary evidence.

Plane crash research is not relevant to the destruction of the WTC. Engineering is somewhat relevant, but not if you understand that what happened was advanced weaponry and if what was needed to figure all that out was research science. Engineers are not research scientists, unless they have additional training in research science.

How can you possibly make that claim about study the site of the impact of not one but two planes?
 
How can you possibly make that claim about study the site of the impact of not one but two planes?

I don't study the impact site of any planes. I study the WTC dust. OTHER PEOPLE keep mentioning airplanes, so I've become familiar with what they say and have a response to them. But planes aren't my thing.
 
I don't study the impact site of any planes. I study the WTC dust. OTHER PEOPLE keep mentioning airplanes, so I've become familiar with what they say and have a response to them. But planes aren't my thing.

Because you don't believe there were aircraft crashes at the WTC that day.

And that Doc, is exactly where you go off the rails.

Everything, and I mean everything you test, investigate or propose will be uselessly irrelevant until you can rationally explain there being NO PLANES.
PERIOD.

BTW... what is the general size of your schmutz ball and just how freakin' big do you think your NYC rats actually are. :p
 
even if it was proven that at least some of your "dust" did originate from the WTC collapse - which is perfectly possible - this doesn't get you any closer to proving anything regarding your dustyfoaming energy weapon theory.

The energy weapon theory isn't mine. I'd drop the theory in a heartbeat and never look back if someone effectively debunked it. As things stand today, though, it's the best theory out there. It is not my theory.

My theory involves low temperature production of metallic foam. I would also drop this theory, but I admit I'd hold onto it a bit tighter, because so many different lines of evidence are pointing in this direction. Low temperature metallic foam is what I've come up with myself, so it's dearer to me, but I would give it up.

You can argue against me, and I will listen, but you have to argue against what I'm saying. You can't argue against other people's theories and be much help to me. Throw Judy Wood's book into a river, I don't care.

The WTC dust is metallic, it's magnetic, it's foamy, it's not at all hard (Mohs' scale of 1-2), and it contains iron fragments and fragments of other material (including DNA) that are heat labile. Argue against this stuff. I'm keen on what people have to say about it, specifically. It's what I have discovered.

Going on about the work of other people and expecting me to justify it is tedious. I'm more interested in my own stuff, and I don't like it when the work of other people is incorrectly attributed to me.
 
Because you don't believe there were aircraft crashes at the WTC that day.

And that Doc, is exactly where you go off the rails.

Everything, and I mean everything you test, investigate or propose will be uselessly irrelevant until you can rationally explain there being NO PLANES.
PERIOD.

BTW... what is the general size of your schmutz ball and just how freakin' big do you think your NYC rats actually are. :p

I have more WTC dust than I can carry at one time. I have not weighed it. I'm pretty strong, though, so it's in excess of 50 kg. Stuff is denser than you can believe, and very heavy.
 
Now that I've had a chance to think about it, it makes a lot of sense that there would be a lot of DNA in the dust. Unfortunately its not only from the victims of 9/11. Considering that a large percentage of indoor dust is skin cells that have been sloughed off, her dust probably contains DNA from possibly anyone who has worked in the buildings since they opened. How many would that be, several hundred thousand? Perhaps millions if you include anyone who has visited the buildings. Good luck trying to isolate the DNA of the victims out of that many possibilities.
 
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I have more WTC dust than I can carry at one time. I have not weighed it. I'm pretty strong, though, so it's in excess of 50 kg. Stuff is denser than you can believe, and very heavy.

Does that include the cigarette butts?

/the building got Tracy to clean up their light well for free. Genius!
 
Now that I've had a chance to think about it, it makes a lot of sense that there would be a lot of DNA in the dust. Unfortunately its not only from the victims of 9/11. Considering that a large percentage of indoor dust is skin cells that have been sloughed off, her dust probably contains DNA from possibly anyone who has worked in the buildings since they opened. How many would that be, several hundred thousand? Perhaps millions if you include anyone who has visited the buildings. Good luck trying to isolate the DNA of the victims out of that many possibilities.

First of all, comparative tests would rule out all that nonsense. If the victim DNA matched that of surviving family members, that would be that.

Secondly, the location of the samples made this kind of persistent contamination and recontamination unlikely. Yeah, cigarette butt got thrown down the shaft. Maybe a pigeon landed there one time, or even a rat, but again, contamination would affect both WTC dust sample types easier.

Even if it were human contamination, if people peed down the shaft, for example. It would splash on both types equally.
 
Does that include the cigarette butts?

/the building got Tracy to clean up their light well for free. Genius!

I did not collect any of the cigarette butts. Maybe a shred of cigarette paper or tobacco, here and there, but no butts.
 
First of all, comparative tests would rule out all that nonsense. If the victim DNA matched that of surviving family members, that would be that.

Secondly, the location of the samples made this kind of persistent contamination and recontamination unlikely. Yeah, cigarette butt got thrown down the shaft. Maybe a pigeon landed there one time, or even a rat, but again, contamination would affect both WTC dust sample types easier.

Even if it were human contamination, if people peed down the shaft, for example. It would splash on both types equally.

Your reading comprehension sucks. In the WTC buildings before the collapses there was skin cells from perhaps millions of people which was dispersed when the buildings collapsed. The air returns would have been lined with them as well as anywhere that wasn't regularly cleaned. Basically in addition to the victims DNA, which would be there anyway because they worked there and were sloughing off skin cells, there will likely be samples from perhaps millions of others.
 
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I'm agreeing with you. There most likely is DNA in your dust. Only there is far more than you probably would expect to find and from far more people than just the victims.
 
First of all, comparative tests would rule out all that nonsense. If the victim DNA matched that of surviving family members, that would be that.

Secondly, the location of the samples made this kind of persistent contamination and recontamination unlikely. Yeah, cigarette butt got thrown down the shaft. Maybe a pigeon landed there one time, or even a rat, but again, contamination would affect both WTC dust sample types easier.

Even if it were human contamination, if people peed down the shaft, for example. It would splash on both types equally.

One of the standards all DNA testing laboratories must meet is to ensure that the DNA recovered from an extraction is human rather than from another source such as bacteria. This is done through quantitation where the quality and quantity of DNA present in a sample is measured and assessed. Additionally, determining the amount of DNA in a sample is essential for success in the next step since most amplification systems require a narrow range of input DNA. This step is completed at the BCA through the use of a purchased Quantifiler DNA Human Quantification Kit and then running all samples on an instrument known as the ABI PRISM 7500 Sequence Detection System. This process takes approximately 30-60 minutes to set-up and then approximately two hours to run on the instrument.
https://dps.mn.gov/divisions/bca/bca-divisions/forensic-science/Pages/dna-procedures.aspx


Do you have access to an ABI PRISM 7500 Sequence Detection System?
 
I did not collect any of the cigarette butts. Maybe a shred of cigarette paper or tobacco, here and there, but no butts.

The good news is that cigarettes rarely produce ash foam or smoke fumes.

So, chances are the schmutz you collected was pristine.

Good thing we had an experienced pan handler to make that call.

Thanks Tracy!
 
In 2006, you could still see both types of foam in the basement of the World Trade Center. Check out the image. You can tell it is 2006 (or later) because the new WTC 7 was finished at the time that the picture was taken.

Imagine. 5 years later, and they still had dark and light colored dust in the basement of the WTC.

Uh, that's not dust, that's bedrock.
 

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