Merged Heaven is Real... Newsweek 10-15-12

[ExMinister]

Neurosurgeons, however, are rarely well-trained in brain function. Dr. Alexander cuts brains; he does not appear to study them

That could at least explain the filtering, Hemi-Sync, global synchronizing neocortical activity to liberate his out-of-body consciousness, kinda like the meningitis thing.

However, it kind of detracts from the whole reason the book is supposed to be so revolutionary.

 

[ExMinister]

OK, one last thing to note, speaking of detracting. From Dr. Alexander:

"Like many other scientific skeptics, I refused to even review the data relevant to the questions concerning these phenomena. I prejudged the data, and those providing it, because my limited perspective failed to provide the foggiest notion of how such things might actually happen. Those who assert that there is no evidence for phenomena indicative of extended consciousness, in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, are willfully ignorant. They believe they know the truth without needing to look at the facts."

Willfully ignorant, and overwhelming evidence to the contrary?

And: "For those still stuck in the trap of scientific skepticism, I recommend the book Irreducible Mind..."

Stuck in the trap?

I haven't read Irreducible Mind but I'm betting it wasn't written by Ramachandran.

There is a lot of this kind of anti-science sentiment toward the end of this book. I think it would prove very disappointing for anyone hoping for even a basic scientific approach to the NDE, or even some well thought out, original neuroscientific insights.

 

[Joey McGee]

That's not usually how intelligent people talk. It would look like "For those still stuck in the trap of scientific skepticism, I recommend looking at data set a, b, and c, and studying the results of study group d, e, and f, while trying to disprove established theory g. Not "read this book and it will convince you." As if this important data that refutes "scientific skepticism" is only available in book form...


Well not really shocking coming from a guy who's trying to convince you that his book is proof of an eternal spirit...

 

[Robin1]

Ok, I psychically predict my comment will go over like a lead balloon but what the hey... I believe we also had a choice about coming back to earth to learn and grow. No, I do not believe we chose the horrible things that sometimes happen to us, but we did choose to be here. Simply, we knew living life here could help us grow spiritually or help someone else grow spiritually... Or not...again the choice is ours.
And no, I have no personal evidence to back this up, just telling you what I believe. I do, however, have evidence of life after death Oops, another lead balloon!

 

[desertgal]

We "choose" to be "here"? As opposed to...what? Suicide? Living on another planet?

I do, however, have evidence of life after death Oops, another lead balloon!

Please stop with that.

 

[Robin1]

Deleted, because I didn't see the first part of desertgal's comment and my response didn't make sense anymore.
And I always, always make sense.

 

[desertgal]

Deleted, because I didn't see the first part of desertgal's comment and my response didn't make sense anymore.
And I always, always make sense.

Sigh.

Way to avoid answering.

I don't know why I'm bothering, but...

Ok, I psychically predict my comment will go over like a lead balloon but what the hey... I believe we also had a choice about coming back to earth to learn and grow.

"Coming BACK to Earth" from...where? Death? Another planet?

No, I do not believe we chose the horrible things that sometimes happen to us, but we did choose to be here.

"Choose" to be "here"? Where is "here"? Earth? Life?

"Choose" as opposed to...what? Suicide? Living on another planet? Remaining in the afterlife? Not, somehow, forcing our mothers to abortion or miscarriage in the womb?

Simply, we knew living life here could help us grow spiritually or help someone else grow spiritually...Or not...again the choice is ours.

No offense intended, but what the hell are you talking about?

 

[Robin1]

Sigh.

Way to avoid answering.

I don't know why I'm bothering, but...


"Coming BACK to Earth" from...where? Death? Another planet?



"Choose" to be "here"? Where is "here"? Earth? Life?

"Choose" as opposed to...what? Suicide? Living on another planet? Remaining in the afterlife? Not, somehow, forcing our mothers to abortion or miscarriage in the womb?



No offense intended, but what the hell are you talking about?

I couldn't help but when you asked me what the hell I was talking about!
I'll try to explain what I believe.
First off, you asked me to stop saying I have evidence of life after death. I do think the subject is connected to what we are talking about here. One way being I do believe in reincarnation (don't tell my Mom!!!) as a way we can continue to grow spiritually. But I do see how making a reference to my thread could be considered annoying, so I will try to stop doing that.
Choosing to be here is choosing to come to earth (school) from "Heaven" because there are many lessons available to be learned here....if we choose to learn them...we could certainly come here and learn absolutely nothing that would advance us spiritually...again, our choice.
As far as other planets go I am open to the possibility of life there as well. But I just don't know...lots I don't know....I do not have all the answers but I try to remain open as to the possibilities. And being open, I believe is crucial when looking for proof, of well, pretty much anything.

 

[Empress]

Choosing to be here is choosing to come to earth (school) from "Heaven" because there are many lessons available to be learned here....if we choose to learn them...we could certainly come here and learn absolutely nothing that would advance us spiritually...again, our choice.

What did that child that RandFan showed us earlier learn from coming here for a short, miserable life? Are you actually implying that child chose that horrendous existence as some sort of personal lesson?

 

[tsig]

I couldn't help but when you asked me what the hell I was talking about!
I'll try to explain what I believe.
First off, you asked me to stop saying I have evidence of life after death. I do think the subject is connected to what we are talking about here. One way being I do believe in reincarnation (don't tell my Mom!!!) as a way we can continue to grow spiritually. But I do see how making a reference to my thread could be considered annoying, so I will try to stop doing that.
Choosing to be here is choosing to come to earth (school) from "Heaven" because there are many lessons available to be learned here....if we choose to learn them...we could certainly come here and learn absolutely nothing that would advance us spiritually...again, our choice.
As far as other planets go I am open to the possibility of life there as well. But I just don't know...lots I don't know....I do not have all the answers but I try to remain open as to the possibilities. And being open, I believe is crucial when looking for proof, of well, pretty much anything.

This is true because I am the most important being in creation and everything and everyone, every life full of pain and every agonizing death are just here to help my education and spiritual growth.

 

[Robin1]

What did that child that RandFan showed us earlier learn from coming here for a short, miserable life? Are you actually implying that child chose that horrendous existence as some sort of personal lesson?

No, of course not. But I do believe we chose to be here. And we knew it wouldn't be Heaven on earth. Look, like I said, I don't have all the answers. But someday, we all will.

 

[RandFan]

I couldn't help but when you asked me what the hell I was talking about!
I'll try to explain what I believe.
First off, you asked me to stop saying I have evidence of life after death. I do think the subject is connected to what we are talking about here. One way being I do believe in reincarnation (don't tell my Mom!!!) as a way we can continue to grow spiritually. But I do see how making a reference to my thread could be considered annoying, so I will try to stop doing that.
Choosing to be here is choosing to come to earth (school) from "Heaven" because there are many lessons available to be learned here....if we choose to learn them...we could certainly come here and learn absolutely nothing that would advance us spiritually...again, our choice.
As far as other planets go I am open to the possibility of life there as well. But I just don't know...lots I don't know....I do not have all the answers but I try to remain open as to the possibilities. And being open, I believe is crucial when looking for proof, of well, pretty much anything.

What did that child that RandFan showed us earlier learn from coming here for a short, miserable life? Are you actually implying that child chose that horrendous existence as some sort of personal lesson?

Learning is a function of memory. I don't remember a previous life so if there was one it was wasted. Personality, decency, morality, ethics, etc., these are all a function of brain predispositions being acted on by environmental factors (see Phineas Gage and psychotropic drugs).

There is zero evidence of a homunculus, cartesian theatre, spirit, soul, ghost, etc.. I'm sorry but we know far too much now about the brain to think there is something affecting it other than simply the brain and it's environment. Anything else is just wishful thinking.

One last thing, please watch this video on split brain patients and answer some questions for me. Do split brain patients have two souls? Why is a single soul unable to communicate to both hemispheres? IOW: Why does either hemisphere not know what the other is doing? If you teach the left hemisphere something the right doesn't know what the left has learned. If the right doesn't know it then how the hell does the spirit (or whatever is reincarnated) know it?

 

[Robin1]

Learning is a function of memory. I don't remember a previous life so if there was one it was wasted. Personality, decency, morality, ethics, etc., these are all a function of brain predispositions being acted on by environmental factors (see Phineas Gage and psychotropic drugs).

There is zero evidence of a homunculus, cartesian theatre, spirit, soul, ghost, etc.. I'm sorry but we know far too much now about the brain to think there is something affecting it other than simply the brain and it's environment. Anything else is just wishful thinking.

One last thing, please watch this video on split brain patients and answer some questions for me. Do split brain patients have two souls? Why is a single soul unable to communicate to both hemispheres? IOW: Why does either hemisphere not know what the other is doing? If you teach the left hemisphere something the right doesn't know what the left has learned. If the right doesn't know it then how the hell does the spirit (or whatever is reincarnated) know it?

Hi RandFan,

I don't remember anything about past lives or Heaven either. But I think this would not be as much of a learning experience if we did. Also that's not to say that it isn't there subconsciously. I do believe none of it is wasted or lost...kind of like a hard drive we will have complete access to in Heaven.

I know you've probably read "Many Lives, Many Masters" by Brian L. Weiss so I'd like to use that as an example. I think it is more probable that Brian Weiss's interpretation of the events is correct. I'm guessing you read it and think other reasons for what happened are more probable.

Kind of like with NDE's or near-death experiences. There are an estimated 13 million people in the United States who have had some sort of NDE. Yes, no one knows for sure the exact number but I think it would be safe to say that NDE type experiences being reported are very common. I will list people I personally know who have had an NDE experience: my Nana, my Mom's cousin, my good friend's Dad, another good friend's grandmother, a work friend's son, and another friend from work. I also know many other stories as well but didn't know the person it happened to personally (including a well reputed doctor at a local hospital my Mom knew...he had walked into the hospital with chest pains and died within minutes...was brought back and told of a beautiful place he had just been to.....then heart stopped right after again....and was brought back and again described the beautiful place....then heart stopped right after again and he was unable to be brought back. Story spread like wildfire through hospital as he was a well known doctor and it was witnessed by doctors and staff that knew him. )

Anyway, my point being I believe all these experiences are real.
And let's remember how many of these experiences are reported. LOTS.
Is it more likely they are reported because they are indeed actually happening or because of some other reason? I bet you know my answer.

I will watch the video you posted. But, I gotta say, just reading your questions confused me. My son's math homework confuses me. I don't feel the need to have an answer for everything to prove to me that God exists. The proof can be found right around you...if you are open to it. If not, then of course you will think that all those NDE's are caused by something other than what is the most obvious. And I've had so many other personal types of proof given to me of life after death that even though I don't know all the answers, I do know that one day, I will.

 

[RandFan]

Hi RandFan,
I don't remember anything about past lives or Heaven either. But I think this would not be as much of a learning experience if we did. Also that's not to say that it isn't there subconsciously. I do believe none of it is wasted or lost...kind of like a hard drive we will have complete access to in Heaven.
I know you've probably read "Many Lives, Many Masters" by Brian L. Weiss so I'd like to use that as an example. I think it is more probable that Brian Weiss's interpretation of the events is spot on. I'm guessing you read it and think other reasons for what happened are more probable. Kind of like with NDE's or near-death experiences. There are an estimated 13 million people in the United States who have had some sort of NDE. Yes, no one knows for sure the exact number but I think it would be safe to say that NDE type experiences being reported are very common. I will list people I personally know who have had an NDE experience: my Nana, my Mom's cousin, my good friend's Dad, another good friend's grandmother, a work friend's son, another friend from work.....I know many other stories as well but didn't know the person it happened to personally (including a well reputed doctor at a local hospital my Mom knew...he had walked into the hospital with chest pains and died within minutes...was brought back and told of a beautiful place he had just been to.....then heart stopped right after again....and was brought back and again described the beautiful place....then heart stopped right after again and he was unable to be brought back. Story spread like wildfire through hospital as he was a well known doctor and it was witnessed by doctors and staff that knew him. )
Anyway, my point being I believe all these experiences are real.
And let's remember how many of these experiences are reported. LOTS.
Is it more likely they are reported because they are indeed actually happening or because of some other reason? I bet you know my answer.
I will watch the video you posted. But, I gotta say, just reading your questions confused me. My son's math homework confuses me. I don't feel the need to have an answer for everything to prove to me that God exists. The proof can be found right around you...if you are open to it. If not, then of course you will think that all those NDE's are caused by something other than what is the most obvious.
And I've had so many other personal types of proof given to me of life after death that even though I don't know all the answers I do know that one day, I will.

How do you learn if you don't remember? You are not addressing my premises. By all means feel free to share your opinions but your assertions about evidence being all around us is just feel good rhetoric. I could just as easily say there is evidence of leprechauns all around us. Your "evidence" was addressed a long time ago by anthropologists. There is an entire sub field in anthropology called Animism. Let me give you one example. In some cultures the fact that trees grew with no visible construction of the trees was evidence that either tiny people or spirits lived in the trees and built them from the inside out.

In short, you are fitting reality to your bias. That's a primary job of brains. To rationalize the world. Let's go back to the split brain experiments. A subject is given an instruction to the part of the brain that isn't involved with speech. The instruction is to get up and walk to the door. When the other side of the brain is asked why he or she did that the subject will typically rationalize an explanation. "I just felt like it".

Again, why doesn't the soul communicate with both sides of the brain equally?

 

[Pixel42]

There are an estimated 13 million people in the United States who have had some sort of NDE.

And how many have been abducted by aliens? How many have had what they consider convincing experiences of anything from a bogus alternative remedy to the psychics which you yourself acknowledge to be fakes?

There are many common experiences which can be misinterpreted because of the way our brains work. Alien abduction experiences are mostly a misinterpretation of sleep paralysis. Bogus alternative remedies are perceived as effective because of the placebo effect. Fake psychics are perceived as accurate because of confirmation bias and the tendancy to vastly underestimate the frequency with which coincidences occur. NDEs are mostly due to the effect lack of oxygen has on the brain. And so on.

The number of people who have a particular type of experience tells you nothing about the correctness of the most common interpretation of that experience.

 

[carlitos]

.....I know many other stories as well but didn't know the person it happened to personally (including a well reputed doctor at a local hospital my Mom knew...he had walked into the hospital with chest pains and died within minutes...was brought back and told of a beautiful place he had just been to.....then heart stopped right after again....and was brought back and again described the beautiful place....then heart stopped right after again and he was unable to be brought back. Story spread like wildfire through hospital as he was a well known doctor and it was witnessed by doctors and staff that knew him. )

And at this point after its umpteenth retelling, your story is most likely 99% embellishment. "I know a guy who told my brother that he heard a story that ..."

A doctor with chest pains walks into the hospital where he works? He just had the chest pains outside in the parking garage, did he? He wasn't at home, and he didn't chew an aspirin and call an ambulance? Really, you don't say. That's totally believable.

Stories like this spread like wildfire because people want to believe them. It brings comfort as it validates their own belief system. Like the horror stories about the TSA validate anti-government beliefs, or the "war on Christmas" validates a Christian's martyr complex.

Last edited by Robin1; Today at 12:21 PM.

Please, for the love of all that is holy, at least consider using a sentence / paragraph structure, rather than this stream-of-consciousness and random carriage return style of formatting. It is very hard to read your posts. If you took more care in constructing them, they could be much more convincing.

 

[Robin1]

And at this point after its umpteenth retelling, your story is most likely 99% embellishment. "I know a guy who told my brother that he heard a story that ..."

A doctor with chest pains walks into the hospital where he works? He just had the chest pains outside in the parking garage, did he? He wasn't at home, and he didn't chew an aspirin and call an ambulance? Really, you don't say. That's totally believable.

Stories like this spread like wildfire because people want to believe them. It brings comfort as it validates their own belief system. Like the horror stories about the TSA validate anti-government beliefs, or the "war on Christmas" validates a Christian's martyr complex.


Please, for the love of all that is holy, at least consider using a sentence / paragraph structure, rather than this stream-of-consciousness and random carriage return style of formatting. It is very hard to read your posts. If you took more care in constructing them, they could be much more convincing.

Carlitos, surprise surprise....you are unhappy with my writing skills??!!
Actually, I honestly did think of you when I wrote "Weiss's interpretation" (really did think of you)
But, I did look it up last time you corrected me about "Carlitos's" and either way is correct ...Carlitos's or Carlitos'. So, HA!!!!!
In terms of paragraphs you have a good point, gonna go back and at least put
some lines between paragraphs.

(Look I'm doing it!) As far as the story goes, funny you should mention it. This doctor had been out to eat and then went home and all was fine. He then started having chest pains at home and instead of calling 911 he called the hospital (where he worked) and told them he was coming and drove himself to the hospital! He collapsed in the emergency room soon after arrival. People of course said he should have called 911 instead and waited for ambulance. Probably wouldn't have saved his life but could have saved someone on the road if he were to have had an accident while having a heart attack.

I gotta run quickly now and fix my previous post ....while I still can....aaaaahhhhhh!!!!!

P.S. I bet you hate it when I start my sentences with "And!"

P.P.S. Should the exclamation point above have been placed after the quotation mark?

 

[carlitos]

Carlitos, surprise surprise....you are unhappy with my writing skills??!!

It seems to be more lack of effort than lack of skill.

You may not know this, but it is a common trait among believers in ... unorthodox topics here that they use non-standard formatting. The prevailing theory is that they think they are special. If you go to the beginning of this thread, you will see Janadele continually reversing quotations despite being asked not to by a dozen posters.

That doctor was a stubborn idiot. If he existed.

 

[Robin1]

It seems to be more lack of effort than lack of skill.

You may not know this, but it is a common trait among believers in ... unorthodox topics here that they use non-standard formatting. The prevailing theory is that they think they are special. If you go to the beginning of this thread, you will see Janadele continually reversing quotations despite being asked not to by a dozen posters.

That doctor was a stubborn idiot. If he existed.

Actually wish I could go back and reformat a lot of my longer posts!
Anyway, thank you ...look at my reason for editing

Doctor was well loved by patients and staff. Probably hoped it was something he ate maybe or was just really scared and wanted to get to the hospital as soon as he could.
That all assumes, of course, that he really existed.
Really, Carlitos, really? Even after all we've been through?!

 

[RandFan]

Actually wish I could go back and reformat a lot of my longer posts!

Anyway, thank you ...look at my reason for editing

Doctor was well loved by patients and staff. Probably hoped it was something he ate maybe or was just really scared and wanted to get to the hospital as soon as he could. That all assumes, of course, that he really existed. Really, Carlitos, really? Even after all we've been through?!

I've edited your post for clarity. If you are going to have a hard line break I would advise two of them. That delineates your paragraphs. Further, many of your line breaks are not even necessary.