Continuation Part 5: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Bill Williams]

I have seen nothing that shows me otherwise, Bruce Fisher even did a self video of him locking a door the way Rudy would have had to and Mary H even told me that was how she locks her door all the time, I do like Mary, but I'm not buying it. As the great captain Jack Sparrow once said, it's not probable, but not impossible. Rudy left a left shoe print.by Meredith's door for everyone to see, whoever believe in Amanda's innocence has to also believe Rudy would lock Meredith's door with his left foot pointed away from the door. No matter how unlikely this would be, you pretty much have to agree that's how he did it, otherwise, she would be guilty to some degree.

Is this for real? That's how I lock the doors all the time. Specially if I'm on a rush.

Sorry, but that doesn't prove anything.

So, this is the "left foot" theory of why Rudy is guilty, Amanda and Raffaele are innocent of the murder, but for some reason decided later to cover it up.

Is Rudy right handed? The reason why I ask is that I saw someone lock a door with their right hand while their left foot was pointed away from the door. I was tempted to ask them to freeze for a minute while I outlined their feet position in chalk, but I thought they'd hit me....

 

[MDDVS]

So, this is the "left foot" theory of why Rudy is guilty, Amanda and Raffaele are innocent of the murder, but for some reason decided later to cover it up.

Is Rudy right handed? The reason why I ask is that I saw someone lock a door with their right hand while their left foot was pointed away from the door. I was tempted to ask them to freeze for a minute while I outlined their feet position in chalk, but I thought they'd hit me....

I'm right handed as well.

 

[Grinder]

Bill TM AKA Harryrag has been posting since 2007.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

? She did serve four years and she is free right now.

If you want her to have had something to do with it, you are going to have to come up with something better than a belief or a feeling. You also are going to need some evidence of her dad preventing her from telling the truth.

Ok here a brief outline of what I believed happened

Rudi broke into the house, not to steal anything but to go to the bathroom. He tried the boys flat first, no answer, walked to the front and tried the front door, same reply, looked around the corner, saw Fils window and broke in.

While sitting on the toilet, Meredith comes home, Rudy tries to leave but front door is locked, he confronts Meredith and we all what escalates from there.

Amanda comes home to change from her work cloths into her going out cloths (whatever) and hears the attack in Meredith's room, she does not even think it's a murder, likely a fight Meredith is have with someone and it's getting out of hand.

She runs to get help, Ralf, she tells him what she heard and before leaving to go to Amanda's house, he grabs the biggest knife in hos drawer.

When they arrive at Amanda's house, she does not go in with Ralf, he encounters Rudi, no fight ensues, he leaves with Amanda to the park where Toto see's them and waits for Rudy to leave.

Raf does not know Rudi so when he tells Amanda what happened inside, she only knows it was a black man.

I think you can see where I'm going and it would take days to write it all down, so ask any question you like, I'll try to answer.

 

[Grinder]

I think we're at an impasse here. Unless someone else wants to pipe up here, all I can do is repeat myself. I don't get why you do get that I don't get what you don't get.

One thing to repeat though, "evidence" of a faked burglary is definitely not that nothing was taken. That was the sum total of both Battistelli's and Filomena's reaction to her room, when they WERE looking at it in situ.

Everything after that is compromised. I simply don't "get" why you don't "get this. It is forensically useless to speculate.

So, unless someone else wants to intercede (Sherlock!?) I'm not sure what information from me you wish.

When you can't answer you do this. The question is very straightforward. What evidence would be compromised by Filomena retrieving her purse or her computer? I can see you are in love with "in situ" and somehow using Latin makes for a more powerful argument.

Yes the fact that nothing was taken or moved to a staging location is evidence that a burglary wasn't in progress when Meredith returned home.

I don't care nor do I believe that workmen at your house supposedly scaled your walls with heavy windows and didn't leave any signs behind. You would be a fool to let them act as you describe as a lawsuit would be waiting.

Give specifics of what evidence was compromised by F in her room?

I have said that the prints on her computer would be a possibility but what could she have added that would compromise.

You have gone on and on about the "in situ" and compromised forensics but not one example.

 

[Dan O.]

I covered the cost of staging a break in. But on the other half of the equation, what is the benefit. If Rudy didn't enter through the window to be waiting inside when Meredith came home, then Rudy had to have entered through the front door. The front door requires someone with a key to open that door. Who could that someone be? There is only one obvious answer and it is a given that she was at the cottage that night.

If Amanda and Raffaele never returned to the cottage the next day, why would anyone even have suspected them?

 

[billyryan]

Mary, sorry, by old man I meant her dad, I feel she wanted to tell the truth but he wouldn't let her. You see my problem with this whole crime is that I don't believe she had anything to do with the murder, she is on trial for murder so she should be found not guilty, but I also believe she is involved somehow and had she just gone ahead and told us exactly what happened, she probably would have served 4 years and be free right now.

If there was one group I could ban from this debate it would be the people who can supply no evidence of guilt,no timeline that could involve Amanda and Raffaele but Amanda was somehow involved,and believe they and they alone can see Amanda wanted to tell the truth but Curt stopped her,of course it goes without saying you can see nothing that would indicate that Mignini Comodi Patriza Stefanoni four our five Perugian cops with the help of three or four perjurers from the local community conspired to convict two innocent students

 

[Dan O.]

I agree with this. I have stated that it easily could have been Rudi before Meredith returned but that he didn't enter. Heck, he could have told her that someone had done it and he needed to help her be safe.

Someone is going to have to explain the crap that Rudy left in the toilet. There is no blood in the large bathroom. Rudy's pants were bloody and even dripping bloody water after the murder so Rudy's trip to the large bathroom was before the murder. This is inconsistent with Meredith letting him in because that wasn't Meredith's bathroom to let strangers use.

Of course the window was definitely broken without anyone calling the police.

Of course it was. But we are talking about percieved risk before the fact not outcome.

 

[Dan O.]

So, this is the "left foot" theory of why Rudy is guilty, Amanda and Raffaele are innocent of the murder, but for some reason decided later to cover it up.

Is Rudy right handed? The reason why I ask is that I saw someone lock a door with their right hand while their left foot was pointed away from the door. I was tempted to ask them to freeze for a minute while I outlined their feet position in chalk, but I thought they'd hit me....

I assume this is a coworker and you will have a chance to witness this event again. What you need is to mark an invisible grid on the floor. If this is on carpet, get some micro beads like the use for reflective street paint and stick them down. Otherwise, there are IR reflective or absorbent markers that will be invisible to normal sight but will show up on an IR sensitive CCD camera. Then just wait till you can capture the event on camera a few times. With the beads you will need a nightshot camera to light them up.

 

[Bill Williams]

Mary, sorry, by old man I meant her dad, I feel she wanted to tell the truth but he wouldn't let her. You see my problem with this whole crime is that I don't believe she had anything to do with the murder, she is on trial for murder so she should be found not guilty, but I also believe she is involved somehow and had she just gone ahead and told us exactly what happened, she probably would have served 4 years and be free right now.

If there was one group I could ban from this debate it would be the people who can supply no evidence of guilt,no timeline that could involve Amanda and Raffaele but Amanda was somehow involved,and believe they and they alone can see Amanda wanted to tell the truth but Curt stopped her,of course it goes without saying you can see nothing that would indicate that Mignini Comodi Patriza Stefanoni four our five Perugian cops with the help of three or four perjurers from the local community conspired to convict two innocent students

But Billy, you are being unfair. Didn't you hear the poster above!? He said he had a feeling this was true!

Feelings trump evidence don't they? They have a feeling that Curt stopped Amanda. What possible more evidence would anyone need?

Please Billy, be reasonable about this.

 

[Bill Williams]

So, this is the "left foot" theory of why Rudy is guilty, Amanda and Raffaele are innocent of the murder, but for some reason decided later to cover it up.

Is Rudy right handed? The reason why I ask is that I saw someone lock a door with their right hand while their left foot was pointed away from the door. I was tempted to ask them to freeze for a minute while I outlined their feet position in chalk, but I thought they'd hit me....

I assume this is a coworker and you will have a chance to witness this event again. What you need is to mark an invisible grid on the floor. If this is on carpet, get some micro beads like the use for reflective street paint and stick them down. Otherwise, there are IR reflective or absorbent markers that will be invisible to normal sight but will show up on an IR sensitive CCD camera. Then just wait till you can capture the event on camera a few times. With the beads you will need a nightshot camera to light them up.

You know, while we are on the subject, I really want one of those neat portable-DNA spotting gizmos that Amanda had to do the clean-up... you know, the one where she removed btoh her and Raffaele's traces from Meredith's room, while ("Boy am I ever a dumb cluck!") forgetting to do the same in the bathroom.... I mean, that bloodprint on the bathmat is just downright daffy.....

..... except that the DNA-spotter takes rechargables and that'll teach Amanda to use those useless dollar-store non-alkalines....

Kids these days.

 

[Bill Williams]

When you can't answer you do this. The question is very straightforward. What evidence would be compromised by Filomena retrieving her purse or her computer? I can see you are in love with "in situ" and somehow using Latin makes for a more powerful argument.

Yes the fact that nothing was taken or moved to a staging location is evidence that a burglary wasn't in progress when Meredith returned home.

I don't care nor do I believe that workmen at your house supposedly scaled your walls with heavy windows and didn't leave any signs behind. You would be a fool to let them act as you describe as a lawsuit would be waiting.

Give specifics of what evidence was compromised by F in her room?

I have said that the prints on her computer would be a possibility but what could she have added that would compromise.

You have gone on and on about the "in situ" and compromised forensics but not one example.

Whatever. Oh, BTW - I was not the contractor. The contractor bore any liability.

 

[Bill Williams]

Ok here a brief outline of what I believed happened
Rudi broke into the house, not to steal anything but to go to the bathroom. He tried the boys flat first, no answer, walked to the front and tried the front door, same reply, looked around the corner, saw Fils window and broke in.

While sitting on the toilet, Meredith comes home, Rudy tries to leave but front door is locked, he confronts Meredith and we all what escalates from there.

Amanda comes home to change from her work cloths into her going out cloths (whatever) and hears the attack in Meredith's room, she does not even think it's a murder, likely a fight Meredith is have with someone and it's getting out of hand.

She runs to get help, Ralf, she tells him what she heard and before leaving to go to Amanda's house, he grabs the biggest knife in hos drawer.

When they arrive at Amanda's house, she does not go in with Ralf, he encounters Rudi, no fight ensues, he leaves with Amanda to the park where Toto see's them and waits for Rudy to leave.

Raf does not know Rudi so when he tells Amanda what happened inside, she only knows it was a black man.

I think you can see where I'm going and it would take days to write it all down, so ask any question you like, I'll try to answer.

Thanks for this. It is hard, however, to argue with a belief.

I acknowledge that this is only part of it, in the sense that if you, yourself, wanted to write a book about this - that you'd have all this explained with footnotes and all. What you've written would be a "foreward" or an "afterward" or some such condensation so that the reader could then compare your summary with the details provided inside.

But..... aside from this brief summary evoking a million questions (how'd the knife get back to Raffaele's, etc.) I'll take it at face value that this is what you believe for your own reasons. Great!

 

[Dan O.]

Ok here a brief outline of what I believed happened

Rudi broke into the house, not to steal anything but to go to the bathroom. He tried the boys flat first, no answer, walked to the front and tried the front door, same reply, looked around the corner, saw Fils window and broke in.

So Rudy broke in through Filomena's window. The motivation is unsupported and he could have more easily gone in the woods.

While sitting on the toilet, Meredith comes home, Rudy tries to leave but front door is locked, he confronts Meredith and we all what escalates from there.

OK. this would be just after 9PM when Meredith came home.

Amanda comes home to change from her work cloths into her going out cloths (whatever) and hears the attack in Meredith's room, she does not even think it's a murder, likely a fight Meredith is have with someone and it's getting out of hand.

What time do you have Amanda getting home?

She runs to get help, Ralf, she tells him what she heard and before leaving to go to Amanda's house, he grabs the biggest knife in hos drawer.

More Time. What is hapening to Meredith?

When they arrive at Amanda's house, she does not go in with Ralf, he encounters Rudi, no fight ensues, he leaves with Amanda to the park where Toto see's them and waits for Rudy to leave.

Are you saying that Raffaele just hands Rudy the knife?

Raf does not know Rudi so when he tells Amanda what happened inside, she only knows it was a black man.

Why don't they call the police? If they forgot their cells (both or them?), there is a pay phone right across the street from Amanda's school.

I think you can see where I'm going and it would take days to write it all down, so ask any question you like, I'll try to answer.

So you've created a scenario where Amanda and Raffaele had some information but WERE NOT INVOLVED in Meredith's murder. Why should they have gone to prison for that?

How long do you have Rudy torturing Meredith before he finally kills her? Do you think Rudy is spending enough time behind bars for his crime?

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

So Rudy broke in through Filomena's window. The motivation is unsupported and he could have more easily gone in the woods.

Toilet paper.......

OK. this would be just after 9PM when Meredith came home.

Rudi probably got there about 10 15 minutes before Meredith

What time do you have Amanda getting home?

Possibly around 9:30 - 9:45

More Time. What is hapening to Meredith?

When Amanda arrives, Meredith is alive but Amanda is not aware exactly what is going on, she runs out of there to get help. Amanda does not know it is as bad as it turns out to be.

Are you saying that Raffaele just hands Rudy the knife?

No, that knife is not used in the murder, that's all Rudy, but that is how that knife gets to that house, Amanda and Ralf come back later and discover the body, that scream at 11:00 -11:30, is actually Amanda screaming when she see Meredith's body.

Why don't they call the police? If they forgot their cells (both or them?), there is a pay phone right across the street from Amanda's school.

They do not know it's a murder yet, by the time they do know, 11:00 -11:30 they decide it's too late, a mistake I'm sure they would like to have back.

So you've created a scenario where Amanda and Raffaele had some information but WERE NOT INVOLVED in Meredith's murder. Why should they have gone to prison for that?

Because they have lied, they tried to cover up their involvement and they tampered with a crime scene, she accused an innocent man and I'm sure there is more you could add to it.

How long do you have Rudy torturing Meredith before he finally kills her? Do you think Rudy is spending enough time behind bars for his crime?

That is totally unknown, to anyone other than Rudi, I pray it wasn't long but it may have been. Rudi should never be set free, personally, I would never forgive him or anyone like him for what they have done.

 

[Rolfe]

Sorry, what? Rudi climbed up to that first-floor window, possibly three times, not that difficult but still needing a fair bit of athleticism, because he was desperate for a number two?????

I'm sorry, but are you serious?

Rolfe.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Sorry, what? Rudi climbed up to that first-floor window, possibly three times, not that difficult but still needing a fair bit of athleticism, because he was desperate for a number two?????

I'm sorry, but are you serious?

Rolfe.

Prove I'm wrong - there is **** in the toilet - what's your take, and before you answer ..... are you serious?

 

[cuki777]

cuki PBS #10

that scream at 11:00 -11:30, is actually Amanda screaming when she see Meredith's body.

This is what the phrase No ****, Sherlock was invented for.

Edited by jhunter1163: 

Edited for Rule 10. Do not attempt to bypass the autocensor.

 

[Rolfe]

Prove I'm wrong - there is **** in the toilet - what's your take, and before you answer ..... are you serious?

Prove you're wrong? You're very combative for someone who is only working on "feelings".

I don't know about you, but if I am that desperate for a bowel motion, the last thing I'm likely to contemplate is a spot of cat burglary, for obvious physiological reasons.

Rolfe.

 

[anglolawyer]

Prove you're wrong? You're very combative for someone who is only working on "feelings".

I don't know about you, but if I am that desperate for a bowel motion, the last thing I'm likely to contemplate is a spot of cat burglary, for obvious physiological reasons.

Rolfe.

Are you a 20 year old basketball player?