Explosion at the Boston Marathon.

RemieV said:
As the donation page says, they are less worried about immediate medical expenses and more worried about long term. This guy is going to have to have tons of PT, redesign his entire house (and possibly move), redesign his car, etc, etc.

This isn't just medical expenses. His entire life, and how he does regular everyday things, is going to shift - and it's going to be money that makes the transition easier.
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Agreed. It's a huge change in his life, and everything around it. Even his toilets will be difficult to use. I hope that the fund set up is more than enough to assist with that.
 
Jonnyclueless said:
Ah, so presenting evidence that points in that direction and saying it's plausible is nodding a head.

Is that your logic? Ignore all evidence and as soon as anyone mentioned Muslim, jump on the "they're conspiracy theorists" bandwagon?

Kind of hypocritical isn't it?
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No, not hypocritical. Presenting plausible points is presenting plausible points, less plausible when put in context of an agenda. Nodding ones head is nodding one's head. I do not know why you assume I was calling you a CTer, and unless you were nodding your head, I think you are being defensive. I am not ignoring any evidence, though I am admittedly swayed by personal experience working with deeply troubled teenagers and trying to understand the reasons why they may want to commit murder or suicide. I personally see a connection between this kid and Trenchcoat Mafia and Seung Hui Cho. The fact that people that knew him called him a normal, nice kid makes me think he couldn't have been a religious fanatic. Maybe his big brother, I await to hear more about that story, but not White Hat Boy.

My original comment on the topic was a response to hearing that people on the streets of Watertown shouted "USA! USA!" as the ambulance was rolling through taking WHB to the hospital. I turned on the TV late last night to hear all the jihadist talk. It has been the majority of the MSM angle on the Why part of this story. It is a Conspiracy Theory.
 
grunion said:
I personally see a connection between this kid and Trenchcoat Mafia and Seung Hui Cho. The fact that people that knew him called him a normal, nice kid makes me think he couldn't have been a religious fanatic.
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I don't recall hearing classmates describe the TM pair or the Asian guy at Virginia Tech as nice normal kids. Did I miss something?

It's curious that you would rule out "religious fanatic" on the basis of such descriptions, but not rule out people like the Columbine and VA Tech murderers.
 
grunion said:
And now the mainstream conspiracy theories start. No, I'm not referring to the looney bin Truther types. I'm talking about the mainstreamers who think the fact that White Hat Boy was Muslim means that the global jihadist movement is to blame for this one. It is what every big media outlet and pundit, both left and right are preaching. Why do "they" hate us so.

The facts are still scarce about this boy's motivations but everything seems to point to sociopathy, not jihadism, as his disease. If there is a conspiracy afoot here it seems to me to be one of mentally disturbed teenagers, not Al Queda.
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No doubt the Internet sleuths will be able to figure out the bombers' true intentions. At least, in their own minds they can figure it out :rolleyes:

ETA: Who needs professional investigators? We've got Google and "critical thinking"!
 
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Seung Hui Cho was clearly a depressive but the TM kids mostly just kept to themselves and were called dweebs as I recall. Lots of other depressed kids with persecution complexes come off as low key, quiet, normal kids to their casual acquaintances. Religious fanatics, not so much.
 
Checkmite said:
Ah yes, the friend who decided not to report her suspicions because the Internet sleuths had already identified suspect 2 as Sunil Tripathi? That one?
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It amazes me how quickly some people here are to assume the Internet sleuths broke the case wide open, and they proclaim so quite often and loudly. Yet they can't provide evidence of this.

They might have a job waiting for them at CNN; I hear facts are optional there.
 
MattusMaximus said:
It amazes me how quickly some people here are to assume the Internet sleuths broke the case wide open, and they proclaim so quite often and loudly. Yet they can't provide evidence of this.

They might have a job waiting for them at CNN; I hear facts are optional there.
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Yes, if any good comes out of this incident it is a souring of the public on believing that the media has any agenda other than to grab eyeballs. I think some outlets learned their lesson quickly from the CNN/Fox pratfall and in general did a pretty responsible job, but overall we can hope that the blundering media coverage of this story will make for a more skeptical public overall.
 
grunion said:
Seung Hui Cho was clearly a depressive but the TM kids mostly just kept to themselves and were called dweebs as I recall. Lots of other depressed kids with persecution complexes come off as low key, quiet, normal kids to their casual acquaintances. Religious fanatics, not so much.
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They were all bullied, and perceived themselves as outcasts, which doesn't seem to be the case for Suspect #2, who was popular and well-liked.

I've known lots of religious fanatics who were quiet and normal. If you didn't discuss religion with them, you wouldn't have a clue.
 
grunion said:
Yes, if any good comes out of this incident it is a souring of the public on believing that the media has any agenda other than to grab eyeballs. I think some outlets learned their lesson quickly from the CNN/Fox pratfall and in general did a pretty responsible job, but overall we can hope that the blundering media coverage of this story will make for a more skeptical public overall.
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Another good that could come of this is that perhaps some people learned that good intentions and an Internet connection aren't enough to play at being a professional law enforcement investigator. It's also important that you actually know what the hell you're doing.

Sadly though, from seeing how so many of the Internet sleuths are patting themselves on the back here, I fear the lesson is completely lost on most.
 
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zeggman said:
And how do you suppose he realized that Suspect #2 was in his photo? That's right, by doing exactly what the folks on Reddit were doing: examining the photo and determining how closely an unidentified individual in a photograph which was not blessed by the FBI matched an individual in a fuzzy photo which was.
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Know what he wasn't doing, far as I know? Opining online about who the bombers were before the photos were public. Or making wild-assed guesses about who they were after they were public.

What he was doing is this: discovering a striking similarity in a photo taken at the marathon and alerting the FBI to this fact.

But go ahead and pretend that this means that the internet sleuths cracked this one wide open. Despite, of course, the fact that even his discovery of the well-focused photo was irrelevant to the arrest of the suspect.

Any of the photos which were online could have contained similar evidence, and the only way to know is to look at each and every one of them. Thousands of eyes can do the job faster than a handful of experts.
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I'm not necessarily opposed to the informal discussions and pretend sleuthing. As long as it doesn't involve publicly accusing the wrong persons, then it can be harmless fun.

But I don't know why you pretend that any of this tomfoolery helped the police arrest the suspect. It didn't. It could have been helpful, if friends of the suspect had alerted the police, but as far as I know, none of them did so. And the speculation about the missing Indian man or the high school student? Worse than useless.
 
Nobody here suspected Chechens.

Why? Because Chechens have no rational or logical grievance against the USA.

It would be like someone from Kashmir or Bangladesh attacking us.
 
Zeggmann said:
"Thousands of eyes can do the job faster than a handful of experts."

I don't think anyone is disputing it can be done faster; of course, the question of whether or not it is done accurately should be considered, shouldn't it?
 
phiwum said:
Know what he wasn't doing, far as I know? Opining online about who the bombers were before the photos were public. Or making wild-assed guesses about who they were after they were public.
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Yes, it's pretty stupid to think you're likely to identify the bombers by doing a Google image search, and I'm with you in ridiculing those who thought they could.

phiwum said:
What he was doing is this: discovering a striking similarity in a photo taken at the marathon and alerting the FBI to this fact.
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And that's what the majority of the people at Reddit were attempting to do. They were also trying to curb those who were attempting to attach names to the pictures.

phiwum said:
But go ahead and pretend that this means that the internet sleuths cracked this one wide open.
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I'm not pretending any such thing; that's a straw man you and the Intellectual Gladiator have created. I say they moved the investigation forward, and if the law enforcement professionals had shared their information earlier the case would have been resolved that much sooner.

phiwum said:
Despite, of course, the fact that even his discovery of the well-focused photo was irrelevant to the arrest of the suspect.
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Maybe. I haven't heard the details of why they hijacked a car shortly after (apparently) buying gas at a 7-11, but it's possible that they were identified by someone who saw the well-focused photo, or panicked by the knowledge that it was online.

Oops, there I go again expressing an opinion which isn't a verified fact.

phiwum said:
I'm not necessarily opposed to the informal discussions and pretend sleuthing. As long as it doesn't involve publicly accusing the wrong persons, then it can be harmless fun.
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Then I think we're in agreement.

phiwum said:
But I don't know why you pretend that any of this tomfoolery helped the police arrest the suspect. It didn't. It could have been helpful, if friends of the suspect had alerted the police, but as far as I know, none of them did so.
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Either someone who knew them supplied their names, or when better images became available it enabled law enforcement's facial recognition software to get a match. I'm betting on the former, but I'm willing to be proven wrong.

phiwum said:
And the speculation about the missing Indian man or the high school student? Worse than useless.
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I agree.
 
grunion said:
No, not hypocritical. Presenting plausible points is presenting plausible points, less plausible when put in context of an agenda. Nodding ones head is nodding one's head. I do not know why you assume I was calling you a CTer, and unless you were nodding your head, I think you are being defensive. I am not ignoring any evidence, though I am admittedly swayed by personal experience working with deeply troubled teenagers and trying to understand the reasons why they may want to commit murder or suicide. I personally see a connection between this kid and Trenchcoat Mafia and Seung Hui Cho. The fact that people that knew him called him a normal, nice kid makes me think he couldn't have been a religious fanatic. Maybe his big brother, I await to hear more about that story, but not White Hat Boy.

My original comment on the topic was a response to hearing that people on the streets of Watertown shouted "USA! USA!" as the ambulance was rolling through taking WHB to the hospital. I turned on the TV late last night to hear all the jihadist talk. It has been the majority of the MSM angle on the Why part of this story. It is a Conspiracy Theory.
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Nodding one's head is what you are doing. Basically anything that suggests religious context you claim is nodding ones head. Now by using any kind of logic or argument, but simply by nodding.

And those of us who list actual facts and evidence as I have done and listed, you dismiss without any argument other than the fact that they happen to be religious related. That's absurd.

How about cutting the nonsense and generalizations about people nodding heads and actually stick to arguments?

You relate them to the trenchcoat mafia? And what evidence supports that? No one has made a single mention of bullying. They were not in high school. They were well liked. They were smart.

Again, all things that fit the Islamic extremist profile and contradict your argument.

They liked extremist Islamic videos, they made claims about 9/11 being inside jobs and targeting Muslims. They were under investigation for possible terrorist connections. And I listed many others above.

THIS IS NOT CONSPIRACY. THESE ARE FACTS. They don't prove anything conclusively, but they certainly draw a much bigger and more plausible conclusion than yours for which you have ZERO evidence to support. Claiming that because one of them was well liked it could not be religious? These are the same claims made by people who have known almost all terrorist bombers. Yet when you take the high school kids they almost always had few friends and were outcasts.
 
Courier said:
http://news.yahoo.com/boston-bomb-s...ist-views-163600939--abc-news-topstories.html

Looks like the older brother became a bit of a Jihadi.

He most likely convinced his little brother to help him, and little bro' didn't want to let down his hero.
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Well apparently grunion would consider that nodding your head. Clearly thinking that him having extreme jihadist views and favoriting extremist jihad views known for glorifying blowing up bombs and suicide bombings could possibly play a role in their motivations is a conspiracy theory.
 
So at this point, I'm wondering: What were they doing at M.I.T.? Why did they murder a guard there? Anybody know? Bueller?
 
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