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halleyscomet said:
Janadele,

Mormon cosmology describes the God you worship as an ascended mortal. What does LDS doctrine tell us about the first being, the ultimate source of all of this, the one who set all of this in motion and is therefore, ultimately, the God worshiped by the God you worship?

The Mormon faith is ultimately a pyramid scheme. Who is at the top of the pyramid, and do you ever worship him directly? Why even worship the intermediary at all, given what an emasculated, limited, bound and restricted being he is?
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I wouldn't believe in the kind of god that would have me as a worshiper.
 
Akhenaten said:
You were caught on the crossfire of childhood and stardom,
blown on the steel breeze.

Come on you target for faraway laughter,
come on you stranger, you legend, you martyr, and shine!

(5 points)


Can you tell a green field from a cold steel rail?

(3 points)
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Pink Floyd.
 
Jon. said:
Surely the apologist's answer is something along the lines of "Truth is truth, and the similarities only prove that both books were divinely inspired."

I'm not saying that JS didn't lift large portions of the BoM from the NT, because I think he probably did. However, the similarities in the two texts can easily be explained away by someone who wishes, for the preservation of his or her faith, to do so.
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Yes, that the usual response but they have a had time explaining why god saw fit to reproduce the errors in the KJV in the BoM.

Besides the usual argument for the BoM is that errors have crept into the bible so they're asserting the bible is true and not true at the same time.


(at this point the TB's will write you off as a hell bound heathen)
 
Janadele said:
The Book of Mormon recounts the stories and history of small Israelite groups led by Lehi and Mulek and brought by the hand of the Lord from ancient Jerusalem to the American continent approximately 600 BC. it is they who are the principal ancestors of modern Native Americans, the indigenous peoples of Central and South America, and much of Polynesia.


or click on this link: http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm?lang=eng
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Talk about a total FAIL, especially the stuff I bolded. THe fact is the evidence is that the Native Americans are descendants of East Asians there is virtually no evidence that any Native American group c. 1492 had any even tiny amount of Middle Eastern ancestry. The Archaeological evidence is also quite clear that there is virtually no evidence of a group of Middle Easterners arriving c. 600 B.C.E. As for the Polynesians well they are the descendants of groups that left East Asia (the area around Taiwan and that island many thousand of years ago that intermingled with the people of New Guinea and then spread from there over the Pacific from the the East not the the West.
 
tsig said:
How did the BoM get to Hill Cumorah?
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The LDS Church needs a do over. Science has mucked up the narrative. Now it looks as if the Hill Cumorah was simply conveniently located near Smith.
 
Pacal said:
Talk about a total FAIL, especially the stuff I bolded. THe fact is the evidence is that the Native Americans are descendants of East Asians there is virtually no evidence that any Native American group c. 1492 had any even tiny amount of Middle Eastern ancestry. The Archaeological evidence is also quite clear that there is virtually no evidence of a group of Middle Easterners arriving c. 600 B.C.E. As for the Polynesians well they are the descendants of groups that left East Asia (the area around Taiwan and that island many thousand of years ago that intermingled with the people of New Guinea and then spread from there over the Pacific from the the East not the the West.
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The mistakes are so glaring it's almost comical how anyone can assign the BOM to have been written by a divine hand.

It reminds me of a horse wearing blinders.
 
Pixel42 said:
Pretty sure she's already answered this - at least I know the standard Mormon answer, perhaps from previous discussions. There was no first God, it's an infinite regression, hence the "turtles all the way down" references.
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Seriously?

Is that seriously what Mormons believe?

That, that sounds like a bad joke.

Janadele, is that what you really believe, in an infinite regression of deities?

Are there at least philosophical discussions about where it all originated, what the "first cause" was of the first divinity?

Who enforces the rules by which all these Gods are bound? What REALLY keeps the local God from just reaching down and feeding all the starving children so they have a chance to grow up enough to decide if they'll remain non-Mormons?
 
GT/CS said:
Which one created the earth, and why?
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Yahweh created the earth (and our entire universe). Prior to that he was a mortal man in his universe, and was such a good person that he ended up in the celestial kingdom and was raised to godhood status. Good Mormons in this life will end up the same way and become gods and goddesses themselves and perpetuate the situation.

Note that this is where the polygamous aspect of Mormonism still holds on. A good Mormon man (the ones that make it to our celestial kingdom) can have multiple wives in the afterlife. He will then be a god, but Yahweh will be over him, just as the god that created Yahweh remains over Yahweh. Gods all the way back.
 
AdMan said:
Can you please explain the threat that I "shall mourn" because I refuse to believe your silly stories? What kind of god punishes his creations for using their brains to decide if what they've been told makes sense or not?
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Revenge porn for those who are supposed to love everyone.
 
Empress said:
Good Mormons in this life will end up the same way and become gods and goddesses themselves and perpetuate the situation.
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These good Mormons will have physical bodies but will have spiritual children. How does a god and goddess have spiritual children? What is the mechanism? I'm sure it starts out like this:

When a mommy god and daddy god love each other very much...

(I know, I'm going to mourn for that)
 
I guess what irks me in this whole religious business is the putting off of responsibility on a god or a prophet.

They will tell you how to act, no thinking invloved.

They will collect your tithe, no thinking involved.

Justice will be sorted out later. No thinking invloved.

Rewards will be given for beliving in things which don't exist. No real thought involved.

My prayers will be answered if I am worthy. No responsibiliy at all.

The whole world will turn just for me, me me me!
 
Empress said:
Yahweh created the earth (and our entire universe). Prior to that he was a mortal man in his universe, and was such a good person that he ended up in the celestial kingdom and was raised to godhood status. Good Mormons in this life will end up the same way and become gods and goddesses themselves and perpetuate the situation.

Note that this is where the polygamous aspect of Mormonism still holds on. A good Mormon man (the ones that make it to our celestial kingdom) can have multiple wives in the afterlife. He will then be a god, but Yahweh will be over him, just as the god that created Yahweh remains over Yahweh. Gods all the way back.
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Were Joseph Smith and L. Ron Hubbard related?:boggled:
 
deaman said:
I guess what irks me in this whole religious business is the putting off of responsibility on a god or a prophet.

They will tell you how to act, no thinking invloved.

They will collect your tithe, no thinking involved.

Justice will be sorted out later. No thinking invloved.

Rewards will be given for beliving in things which don't exist. No real thought involved.

My prayers will be answered if I am worthy. No responsibiliy at all.

The whole world will turn just for me, me me me!
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You forgot the most important rule;
Only a select few can tell you what god wants and those few make a crapload of money because of their special knowledge. They also have control over your life.
 
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Look, if you really believe in the power of the priesthood or god, the power of your actions or words before a god, why the heck are you not walking around healing people, selling all you have and feeding, clothing, and sheltering people?

Why not? Doesn't god have your back?

Step over to the nearest child cancer ward and heal everybody.
 
deaman said:
I guess what irks me in this whole religious business is the putting off of responsibility on a god or a prophet.

They will tell you how to act, no thinking invloved.

They will collect your tithe, no thinking involved.

Justice will be sorted out later. No thinking invloved.

Rewards will be given for beliving in things which don't exist. No real thought involved.

My prayers will be answered if I am worthy. No responsibiliy at all.

The whole world will turn just for me, me me me!
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That was the whole point of the blacks and priesthood example. Janadele was quite comfortable with a blatantly racist declaration when, according to LDS teachings, it had been God's will. Now that the LDS Church has backed away from their racist stance having been God's will, Janadele is left with no tree to hide behind.

Curiously, she hasn't realized that yet.
 
As far as I understand, a prophet is only a true prophet if exactly 100% of his prophecies come true.

Janadele, or anyone, can we have a list of the prophecies from the current prophet that have come true absolutely?
 
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That's why the LDS 'church' is going against it's founding principal by changing what Joseph Smith wrote. They believe he transcribed God's words so there is no reason to change it. As soon as they change one word they prove JS was just a con artist and a liar.

As I understand it, he said that god, through the angel, told him all other religions had become corrupted over the years and god's original message was no longer being taught. He (god) then wanted JS to basically rewrite the bible to teach god's truth.

Did JS get it wrong? Was god not clear in his writings? How could god be misunderstood? It looks to me like god is a total screw-up if he can't present a clear and concise message.
 
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