Proof of Life After Death!!

[meg]

Hello, OccamJr2. Welcome to the forum!

And thank you for this new information.

..After John requested that I stand up, which I was terrifyingly reluctant to do, the very first thing he asked of me was if I had a Valerie Harper connection. Before I responded, he immediately qualified this by saying that it would not simply be my having seen and enjoyed the Mary Tyler Moore Show or knowing that she had played the character of Rhoda. It would have to be more significant than that. He insisted upon it to the point of being annoying. What I am absolutely convinced of is that John Edward could not in any earthly way have known or even guessed that three hours before, I had been sitting in my mother's kitchen waiting for S.J.C. to pick us up for the John Edward event and was mindlessly thumbing through the newspaper. I noticed there was an advertisement in the theatre section for Valerie Harper's new Broadway play, Looped, along with many other theatre ads highlighting various celebrities of the stage and screens, both large and small..

I think sideroxylon makes a very good point. If JE insisted that you had to have a significant connection to Valerie Harper, then I think just seeing an ad in the paper and thinking about going to the show, even talking about going to the show, is not really that significant of a connection.

I would also like to ask.. You are the actor in the family, are you not?

What I'm getting at is that asking a NY actor if he has a connection to a Broadway show star has pretty good odds of getting a hit. I mean you could say you'd tried out for the show, someone you know is in the show, someone you know is doing music/costumes/stage design for the show, you once met Valerie Harper doing a different show, you knew VH from being in/living in/going to Greenwhich Village where she lived, you have a connection to any of the long list of shows VH had been in, you are a member of SAG, you absolutely adored Tallulah Bankhead, etc, etc.


I would also like to ask you, since you've chosen OccamJr2 as your name, the same thing I asked Robin a few months ago:


If you listen to John Edward and you listen to a magician doing a cold reading gig, John Edward sounds a lot like a magician doing cold reading.

If you watch John Edward and you watch a magician doing a cold reading gig, John Edward looks a lot like a magician doing cold reading.

The kinds of words and images John Edward says he gets are the same kinds of word and images a magician doing cold reading says he gets.

John Edward's "hit" rate is about the same as a magician gets doing cold reading.

We know that cold reading exists.
We know that some people call themselves psychics who perform cold reading.


So, which is the more simple explanation for John Edward's "abilities"?

John Edward is a magician doing cold reading.

OR

John Edward actually really talks to dead people, but really talking to dead people coincidentally looks and sounds just like magicians doing cold reading.

 

[abaddon]

Point of clarification because I don't like to oversell myself:

First, I am not a professional-level amateur magician. My knowledge regarding magical methods but especially mentalism methods approaches professional level but does not achieve what an actual working professional has.

Second, I possess performance skills that approach that of a bumbling amateur.

I am not saying this to be humble, but to point out that real expertise is beyond most people, even those who--like me--dedicate much of their free time to it. It is certainly beyond people who--like Robin--decided to take some time and do some serious research for a while based on their skills as a librarian.

Just to pick up on that, my favoured poison is close up, the kind of thing you can perform in front of people after dinner. While it looks astonishing to the observers, what is not appreciated is the time and practice before a mirror to get it looking slick. Ye olde red and black sorting the cards is one of my goodies, since you convince someone to do it themselves, without handling the cards yourself. And afterwards you get to annoy them by stating that they alone handled the cards throughout. I brazenly even ask THEM how they did it. Cold reading is no different, in my view. Blame the setup on the mark, and you are out clean.

 

[carlitos]

2. You have remembered the experience wrongly. The fact that your family supports you in your recollection doesn’t help; eyewitness testimony is empirically unreliable, and it gets worse when a group of eyewitnesses have the time and inclination to discuss the experience before formally committing their accounts to paper. More than that, memory itself is both flawed and malleable, inexact at the moment of formation and becoming more flawed as time passes and the memory is repeatedly accessed and reconstructed (not intentionally; this is just how memory works).

For your consideration, his family actually contradicts his recollection:

After John requested that I stand up, which I was terrifyingly reluctant to do, the very first thing he asked of me was if I had a Valerie Harper connection. Before I responded, he immediately qualified this by saying that it would not simply be my having seen and enjoyed the Mary Tyler Moore Show or knowing that she had played the character of Rhoda. It would have to be more significant than that. He insisted upon it to the point of being annoying.

AND THEN ...John told my brother that my dad is telling him he has a Valerie Harper connection. My brother had just bought tickets to her Broadway show that same day!

Please understand that this was just a conversation, an idea, and no tickets were ever purchased or charged that afternoon.

I am Robin's brother who attended the John Edwards seminar with her that night and was asked immediately by John if I had a Valerie Harper connection.

I went to see him and he "falsely" insisted my brother had a Valerie Harper connection

The chances of John being able to "guess" that my brother had a recent Valerie Harper connection are pretty slim as well!

So John Edward asked / told / insisted to OccamJr2 that (his dad was telling him / asking him?) there was a (recent?) Valerie Harper connection. And by coincidence he had just (not) purchased tickets to her show. This is not very compelling proof of life after death.






Also, I am psychic like John Edward: (ETA - the "40 more pages" quote is from page 7)

Robin hasn't left. There's 40 more pages of this good stuff coming. Her brother is going to join too.

I hesitated posting before now......

 

[dafydd]

Just to pick up on that, my favoured poison is close up, the kind of thing you can perform in front of people after dinner. While it looks astonishing to the observers, what is not appreciated is the time and practice before a mirror to get it looking slick. Ye olde red and black sorting the cards is one of my goodies, since you convince someone to do it themselves, without handling the cards yourself. And afterwards you get to annoy them by stating that they alone handled the cards throughout. I brazenly even ask THEM how they did it. Cold reading is no different, in my view. Blame the setup on the mark, and you are out clean.

Randi once showed Colin Wilson,the British writer and believer in the occult, the card trick Out Of This World. Wilson was astounded and said that it was up to Randi to prove that he wasn't psychic.

 

[abaddon]

Randi once showed Colin Wilson,the British writer and believer in the occult, the card trick Out Of This World. Wilson was astounded and said that it was up to Randi to prove that he wasn't psychic.

Pretty much what I do, but I give the deck to the mark, with the "no cheating, no peeking" reinforcement. After that, all you need to do is count.

ETA: Even funnier, if you lose count it is trivial to recover, as has happened to me numerous times.

ETA2: I had one mark try to be clever and go "black black black" etc. Boy was she surprised to have 26 exclusively black cards in a heap.

 

[Garrette]

Garette,

Just wanted to pop in to say:

Duuuude. That was awesome

Excellently readable and succinct post, that presents the skeptical position clearly and unabiguously. I love it!

Glad you liked it. Thanks.

Just to pick up on that, my favoured poison is close up, the kind of thing you can perform in front of people after dinner. While it looks astonishing to the observers, what is not appreciated is the time and practice before a mirror to get it looking slick. Ye olde red and black sorting the cards is one of my goodies, since you convince someone to do it themselves, without handling the cards yourself. And afterwards you get to annoy them by stating that they alone handled the cards throughout. I brazenly even ask THEM how they did it. Cold reading is no different, in my view. Blame the setup on the mark, and you are out clean.

Yep. Watching a good magician or mentalist is one of my great joys, whether I know the method or not. On the other hand, one of my great fears is showing up at some place like TAM and having someone who knows I am an aficionado ask me to "do a trick, just a little one, come on..." I can probably oblige, but not often and not for long.

For your consideration, his family actually contradicts his recollection:

So John Edward asked / told / insisted to OccamJr2 that (his dad was telling him / asking him?) there was a (recent?) Valerie Harper connection. And by coincidence he had just (not) purchased tickets to her show. This is not very compelling proof of life after death.

Excellent catches. Thanks.

Randi once showed Colin Wilson,the British writer and believer in the occult, the card trick Out Of This World. Wilson was astounded and said that it was up to Randi to prove that he wasn't psychic.

Something similar has happened to nearly anyone who does even bungling amateur magic as an adult. Bungler that I am I have still been accused of being in league with the devil. It wasn't a tongue-in-cheek or metaphorical accusation. The people were afraid.

 

[abaddon]

Glad you liked it. Thanks.

Yep. Watching a good magician or mentalist is one of my great joys, whether I know the method or not. On the other hand, one of my great fears is showing up at some place like TAM and having someone who knows I am an aficionado ask me to "do a trick, just a little one, come on..." I can probably oblige, but not often and not for long.

I inherited the magic bug from my father. I used to do the sound for him. In a classic moment, an obnoxious kid in the audience kept screaming "I know how he did that". When time came for the hand guillotine routine, he singled out obnoxious kid as the volunteer. I will never forget what he did. He switched off the mike and said to the kid "I hope it doesn't work". What a heckler stopper.

 

[Agatha]

Welcome, OccamJr2. People here may seem to dismiss your experiences and beliefs, but in fact we are not dismissing them, just suggesting that on their own they don't rise to the level of 'proof' of life after death, nor even evidence suggesting that life could continue after death.

JE is no different than any other celebrity medium; he utilises the same techniques of cold and hot reading as all the others. Sometimes he appears to have hits, but at no greater rate than chance (unless he has information gained by subterfuge). Without a transcript, all we have to go on is your memory and Robin's memory of the events surrounding your experience at JE's show, and these memories may be inaccurate.

Human memory is plastic and malleable from the second the memory is formed, and anecdotes tend to change the more they are recalled and recounted or discussed with others. That is not a criticism of either you or Robin, it's simply that human memory works that way.

Indeed, it appears that JE insisted that the Valerie Harper connection that you had, i.e. seeing a mention of her show in the paper and buying (Robin) or not buying (you) tickets, was the sort of connection which JE expressly said he didn't mean. And of course, JE would be foolish to have not read the local papers prior to his show, to know what is in his audience's minds.

I hope Robin will return, any of us will be happy to explain (perhaps by PM) where she broke the rules or she can ask in the Forum Management sub-forum. Nobody here has ever bore her any ill-will.

 

[abaddon]

Something similar has happened to nearly anyone who does even bungling amateur magic as an adult. Bungler that I am I have still been accused of being in league with the devil. It wasn't a tongue-in-cheek or metaphorical accusation. The people were afraid.

And yes. Been there too. Even when you tell folks out front that it is an illusion, some of them will not believe you.

 

[Slowvehicle]

Point of clarification because I don't like to oversell myself:

First, I am not a professional-level amateur magician. My knowledge regarding magical methods but especially mentalism methods approaches professional level but does not achieve what an actual working professional has.

Second, I possess performance skills that approach that of a bumbling amateur.

I am not saying this to be humble, but to point out that real expertise is beyond most people, even those who--like me--dedicate much of their free time to it. It is certainly beyond people who--like Robin--decided to take some time and do some serious research for a while based on their skills as a librarian.


Welcome, OccamJr2! Thanks for joining us. We do seem strident here, and we get frustrated, but mostly we are a friendly bunch. Robin would likely disagree, especially about me, but that’s another topic.

I would like to address a couple of specific points about your experience followed by some generalities which I hope will help explain why we don’t fall all over ourselves to join in your conclusion about John Edward’s supposed authenticity.

You point out that JE himself insisted that the “Valerie Harper connection” would have to be more than simply having liked her and the shows she was in, yet your entire connection rests entirely on the simple fact that you liked Valerie Harper and the shows she was in. The phone call with your friend discussing the Broadway show doesn’t add anything except that you talked to somebody about liking Valerie Harper and the shows she was in. Later, you got tickets to another show she was in. Is that really a “connection?”

Here is the entirety of your connection: You liked Valerie Harper. You bought tickets to see a Valerie Harper show.

According to you, even JE himself said to discount this. So where is the amazing hit?
I’m sorry, but even without all the other factors that detract from the wow-factor, this is simply not impressive.


Now for the generalities. This is what I call my “Even If” analysis (for the record, I do not believe that you are lying or being in any way intentionally deceptive in your account, but that is not always the case so I include the first step below to be complete):

1. It is possible that you are lying, or shading the truth just enough to make the story that little bit more convincing.

But even if that is not the case, it is still possible that

2. You have remembered the experience wrongly. The fact that your family supports you in your recollection doesn’t help; eyewitness testimony is empirically unreliable, and it gets worse when a group of eyewitnesses have the time and inclination to discuss the experience before formally committing their accounts to paper. More than that, memory itself is both flawed and malleable, inexact at the moment of formation and becoming more flawed as time passes and the memory is repeatedly accessed and reconstructed (not intentionally; this is just how memory works).

But even if that is not the case, it is still possible that

2. John Edward “hot read” you. This means that somehow he gathered information ahead of time through mundane means and fed it back to you in a manner intended to deceive. Frankly, I think that hot reading and you lying are the least likely explanations, so I won’t go into it, but bear in mind that to be really intellectually honest, this possibility would have to be considered.

But even if that is not the case, it is still possible that

3. You are engaging in one of the most overlooked and least understood (by those not experienced and well-versed in it, and sometimes even among those who are) logical fallacies: Confirmation Bias (related to the Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy someone has mentioned already). Without getting into a formal definition, what it means is that you look for ways to make your hypothesis seem true as opposed to formally analyzing what really happened. The Valerie Harper connection is a nearly textbook-perfect example of this.

You said: ”What I am absolutely convinced of is that John Edward could not in any earthly way have known or even guessed that three hours before,…”.


And that’s the point. John Edward was not aware of this. Not at all. He never mentioned anything about your phone call, about you being in the kitchen, about tickets, about a show. You are the one who relates that and then recount it here as if John Edward said it. He didn’t. He said “Valerie Harper connection,” which others have pointed out could be one of a dozen or two dozen things. Just as importantly, you attribute significance that JE told you not to attribute: He said that it would have to be more than simply liking Valier Harper or seeing her shows, yet all you have is liking Valerie Harper and seeing her show.
There is not as much there there as you think is there.

But even if that is not the case, it is still possible that

4. The odds of getting a hit are far, far greater than you imagine, and I use “imagine” intentionally. Have you bothered sitting down to do even a rough estimate of odds? Even a back-of-the-envelope shows it isn’t astronomic.
(a) What would constitute a “Valerie Harper connection?” It would include you getting a ticket to the show later, having already gone to the show, having bought tickets before but not gone yet, having been comped tickets in one of the myriad ways that that happens in New York, having bought a Valerie Harper coffee mug, having bought a Valerie Harper biography, having bought a Mary Tyler Moore book because it talked about Valerie Harper in it, having done a web search on Valerie Harper, simply having had a phone conversation with your friend to reminisce about Marty Tyler Moore and how Valerie Harper really made that show funny, or a thousand other variations.
(b) How many people in the audience could be expected to have some Valerie Harper connection? You said yourself that her Broadway show was a short run, so when you were there it was still a new thing; it is not a stretch to imagine that visitors to New York would consider seeing a new show with a relatively big name star or that they would like Valerie Harper or have one of a thousand other “connections” to her. Picking one person to single out for this, someone whom it would not be difficult to pick out as a person in New York not as a native, was hardly a gamble for JE.
(c) What are the odds of getting a hit or three hits in the show, enough to convince someone who will publicly sing JE’s praises. Since JE rattles off statements at lightning speed and feeds the vast majority to the group as opposed to an individual, the odds are extremely high that something will hit (and yet, as has been shown in videos here, he still fails at times). How many misses are forgotten when the hits are praised to the heavens? Nearly all, and the misses far outweigh the hits.

And so you have forgotten misses and surprisingly high odds for hits.

But even if that is not the case, it is still possible that

5. There is still the Law of Large Numbers. This simply means that even things that have odds of millions-to-one against happen multiple times every day. Others have pointed out that if something is shown to have only a one-in-seven-billion chance of happening then it happens seven times a day. If it has a one-in-a-million chance of happening then it happens 7,000 times a day. How many things have a one-in-a-million chance of happening? Well, truthfully, it numbers in the millions if it isn’t an infinite number, but let’s say there are only a thousand things that have a one-in-a-million chance of happening. That means that there are seven million one-in-a-million-chance things happening every single day. If the Valerie Harper connection was one of those things (and we know it wasn’t), then there is still no big mystery to explain.

But even if that is not the case, it is still possible that

7. You simply got fooled. Have you read the rest of thread, particularly the descriptions of what performing magicians and mentalists can do? Have you seen the video of Derren Brown? Read the story of Harry Kellar in Hong Kong? Read about me telling people what word they are thinking of? The story of Richard Osterlind with President Ford under the eye of the Secret Service? Each one of these things is far, far more impressive than telling you that you have a “Valerie Harper connection,” and yet each one can be explained without resorting to a supernatural talking-with-the-dead story.

Those are seven “Even Ifs.” Do you really, after careful and objective consideration, think that John Edward speaking with your dead father is more likely than one of them?

Nominated for clarity and profundity--beautifully done!

 

[Robin1]

Edited off topic, forum management type stuff. If you want to discuss that, please take it to the FMF section.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: LashL

3) Foolmewunz, I'd like to take a moment and thank you (post 1698) for posting that link to Michael Prescott's article about JE.
http://michaelprescott.freeservers.com/some-thoughts-on-john-edwar.html
I know you don't believe in JE so I really, really appreciate your posting that link in an attempt to be fair. I also think at the time you were trying to help stop me from spiraling (rightfully) out of control : ) but, honestly at that point even JE himself couldn't have stopped that runaway train! Thank you...I do appreciate it.
But, back to Michael Prescott's article...it is EXACTLY what I have been trying to say here all along! Just not as well as he did. Yes, I know you think he wrote in a deliberately tricky way...I don't. I actually even saw some of the JE episodes he is referring to. I would ask all of you to read that ENTIRE article...it addresses many of your possible scenarios with regard to JE...cold reading, hot reading etc.
The article truly exemplifies for me and Occam Jr. (thanks for adding your two cents, bro! Love you!) exactly why we believe JE is real. Also, JE's hits referred to in that article, some of which included JE knowing someone dressed up as a tree, the shepherd reference, reading coffee grinds instead of tea leaves, air traffic control, the IV and the tattoo, even drinking milk straight from a cow etc. those, are OUR Valerie Harper connection, new refrigerator, and big tooth in the pocket. And it is those completely unknowable specifics which indeed prove to us that JE is absolutely real.
4) NaySayer, I watched your video link with JE and JVP. Just because they sat next to each other in an interview in NO way means John Edward is personally endorsing James Van Praagh as a medium. They sat next to each other. That's all. JE couldn't very well have instead pointed to JVP in horror and yelled "COOTIES!" and ran screaming from the interview.
5) With regard to the wording in my blog vs.the comments. That is EXACTLY why since the VERY FIRST post I made when I started this thread I have insisted repeatedly and annoyingly that you read the blog as well as ALL the comments! The comments offer a much more detailed description of what happened in the event. More detailed. A fuller picture. Just plain better. I wrote the blog purposely with the intent to be brief (short blogs are more popular and have a much greater chance of being read). So for me, when John Edward asked me if I JUST bought a new refrigerator...why did he ask? Because my Dad "told" him...actually the word "showed" him may be better there. When John Edward asked my brother if he had a Valerie Harper connection...why did he ask? Because my Dad "told" him. That's why I worded it that way. To be brief yet get the point across. And I still think of it that way...My Dad "told" JE all those things...JE only asked because he has the job of trying to interpret what my Dad is "telling" him or really "showing" him. Comment on my blog I've referred to here a long time ago does explain the process regarding how mediums must interpret what they are being shown by the deceased. In other words JE is only "asking" because my Dad is "telling" him to.
6) Resume, I promised you an answer to your question about my "agenda" awhile ago. I will repost an older post of mine that answers your question in detail.

And now folks, it is indeed time for this clown to take her show on the road. Honk! Honk!

 

[dafydd]

What happened next, will go down in history...

No. I've been suspended twice and there is no mention of that in any history book.

 

[carlitos]

5) With regard to the wording in my blog vs.the comments. That is EXACTLY why since the VERY FIRST post I made when I started this thread I have insisted repeatedly and annoyingly that you read the blog as well as ALL the comments! The comments offer a much more detailed description of what happened in the event. More detailed. A fuller picture. Just plain better. I wrote the blog purposely with the intent to be brief (short blogs are more popular and have a much greater chance of being read). So for me, when John Edward asked me if I bought a new refrigerator...why did he ask? Because my Dad "told" him...actually the word "showed" him may be better there. When John Edward asked my brother if he had a Valerie Harper connection...why did he ask? Because my Dad "told" him. That's why I worded it that way. To be brief yet get the point across. And I still think of it that way...My Dad "told" JE all those things...JE only asked because he has the job of trying to interpret what my Dad is "telling" him or really "showing" him. Comment on my blog I've referred to here a long time ago does explain the process regarding how mediums must interpret what they are being shown by the deceased. In other words JE is only "asking" because my Dad is "telling" him to.

No, you embellished your story to make it more impressive -- "My brother had just bought tickets to her Broadway show" - it's right there in your blog. After people hypothesized that somehow JE might be doing a hot read, having found out about the ticket purchase, then the story changed to "no tickets were ever purchased or charged that afternoon." Then in further comments, the Valerie Harper thing evolved to a "recent" connection.

.....

After John requested that I stand up, which I was terrifyingly reluctant to do, the very first thing he asked of me was if I had a Valerie Harper connection. Before I responded, he immediately qualified this by saying that it would not simply be my having seen and enjoyed the Mary Tyler Moore Show or knowing that she had played the character of Rhoda. It would have to be more significant than that. He insisted upon it to the point of being annoying.

AND THEN ...John told my brother that my dad is telling him he has a Valerie Harper connection. My brother had just bought tickets to her Broadway show that same day!

Please understand that this was just a conversation, an idea, and no tickets were ever purchased or charged that afternoon.

I am Robin's brother who attended the John Edwards seminar with her that night and was asked immediately by John if I had a Valerie Harper connection.

I went to see him and he "falsely" insisted my brother had a Valerie Harper connection

The chances of John being able to "guess" that my brother had a recent Valerie Harper connection are pretty slim as well!

I had dismissed "paid shill" hypothesis the same as everyone, but I'm starting to doubt myself.

 

[Robin1]

No, you embellished your story to make it more impressive -- "My brother had just bought tickets to her Broadway show" - it's right there in your blog. After people hypothesized that somehow JE might be doing a hot read, having found out about the ticket purchase, then the story changed to "no tickets were ever purchased or charged that afternoon." Then in further comments, the Valerie Harper thing evolved to a "recent" connection.



I had dismissed "paid shill" hypothesis the same as everyone, but I'm starting to doubt myself.

Yes, I forgot that one...I did originally think the tickets were bought. It was my mistake. But as you'll see in the COMMENTS after my blog...the COMMENTS I keep insisting you MUST read...the story was CORRECTED. By me AND my brother.
Believe me. Don't believe me. Whatever. Now I know how JE feels.

 

[deaman]

Believe me. Don't believe me. Whatever. Now I know how JE feels.

Except the cash probably makes JE feel a little bit better.

 

[carlitos]

Yes, I forgot that one...I did originally think the tickets were bought. It was my mistake. But as you'll see in the COMMENTS after my blog...the COMMENTS I keep insisting you MUST read...the story was CORRECTED. By me AND my brother.
Believe me. Don't believe me. Whatever. Now I know how JE feels.

Yes, the story was "corrected" after people noticed that someone checking credit card purchases would know about fridges and show tickets. I'm a bit skeptical.

I'm not sure why you think I didn't read THE COMMENTS on your blog, as I quoted a handful of them in my last 2 posts. Your story evolved over time with multiple re-tellings of it, just like most stories do. You and your brother had different recollections of the same event, which is also perfectly normal. It has nothing to do with "believing" you. It's just not "proof of life after death."

.John told my brother that my dad is telling him he has a Valerie Harper connection. My brother had just bought tickets to her Broadway show that same day!

Bryan ĸ McDonald
2:58 am on Sunday, October 21, 2012
Robin, I have to ask, and I'm not being sarcastic or insensitive. Why would your deceased father care bout a refrigerator and concert tickets?

It's well known that Edward has a team of information gatherers. The refrigerator and ticket purchases could be gleaned from the internet and also your birthday. Once he knew your birthday it was easy to further the illusion by making the Pearl Harbor reference.

If your dad was going to speak to Edward from beyond about you why not tell him what he whispered in your ear while you danced at your wedding? why would he mention recent credit card purchases made by you and your brother?

...

As for my brother and the Valerie Harper tickets....the long story is this...my brother took train from Manhattan that day to my Mom's...I was going to pick them both up there to go to the John Edward event. While my brother was waiting for me he read a newspaper my Mom had on the table. He read an article about the Broadway play that Valerie Harper was in. He then called his friend specifically to tell him that they should go to the show and asked his friend to get the tickets for them. So, how did John look that information up?

I feel compelled to chime in here with my two cents (two cents cash, that is, not credit card, for fear John Edwards' minions will pull my credit report for their nefarious purposes). I am Robin's brother who attended the John Edwards seminar with her that night and was asked immediately by John if I had a Valerie Harper connection. Just to clarify, a mere few hours before the event I was reading the newspaper and saw an ad for a Broadway play that Valerie Harper was appearing in. She had always been one of my absolute favorite actresses since her days playing Rhoda in the 70s when I was just a babe, but I actually hadn't given a conscious thought to her in years until that afternoon. I then called my best friend who I knew was also a fan and discussed coordinating an evening to see her play. BUT NO TICKETS WERE PURCHASED BY ME THAT AFTERNOON, so there was no credit card charge in existence, no receipts to track. It was all simply in my head, or, rather, in my simple head. So it would be truly impossible for John Edwards to have found any information in the physical world about my connection to Valerie Harper, a connection that for me had only played out three hours earlier, for the first time in decades. Cold reading?? Nonsense!

Told? Asked?

As for the connection itself, I don't see it. Really, I think that this is a miss:

After John requested that I stand up, which I was terrifyingly reluctant to do, the very first thing he asked of me was if I had a Valerie Harper connection. Before I responded, he immediately qualified this by saying that it would not simply be my having seen and enjoyed the Mary Tyler Moore Show or knowing that she had played the character of Rhoda. It would have to be more significant than that. He insisted upon it to the point of being annoying.

Having a conversation about a play is "significant?" I guess I have "significant connections" to all sorts of celebrities if I mention them on the phone?

 

[Pixel42]

And it is those completely unknowable specifics which indeed prove to us that JE is absolutely real.

It doesn't matter how many times you repeat this, it will never become a sensible statement. It would only be a sensible statement if Edward demonstrated an ability to produce more "unknowable specifics" than would be expected by chance under circumstances which excluded all explanations but chance. Yet he refuses to do so.

Yes, I forgot that one...I did originally think the tickets were bought. It was my mistake. But as you'll see in the COMMENTS after my blog...the COMMENTS I keep insisting you MUST read...the story was CORRECTED. By me AND my brother.

The point is that it needed to be corrected. Your memory was faulty. How many other "specifics" have you and/or your brother remembered incorrectly? How many "specifics" have you not remembered, which Edward got wrong? You can't possibly know, yet you insist it's none.

 

[Sideroxylon]

Garette,

Just wanted to pop in to say:

Duuuude. That was awesome

Excellently readable and succinct post, that presents the skeptical position clearly and unabiguously. I love it!

I was looking for the "like" button.

 

[desertgal]

Believe me. Don't believe me. Whatever. Now I know how JE feels.

Actually, what JE feels is "Believe me. Don't believe me. I get paid either way."

 

[Robin1]

Yes, the story was "corrected" after people noticed that someone checking credit card purchases would know about fridges and show tickets. I'm a bit skeptical.

I'm not sure why you think I didn't read THE COMMENTS on your blog, as I quoted a handful of them in my last 2 posts. Your story evolved over time with multiple re-tellings of it, just like most stories do. You and your brother had different recollections of the same event, which is also perfectly normal. It has nothing to do with "believing" you. It's just not "proof of life after death."





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Told? Asked?

As for the connection itself, I don't see it. Really, I think that this is a miss:



Having a conversation about a play is "significant?" I guess I have "significant connections" to all sorts of celebrities if I mention them on the phone?

I would be more impressed if John Edward has indeed been hacking easily, successfully, and repeatedly into people's credit card accounts for the past 15+ years WITHOUT being caught, than him actually communicating with the dead. In other words, there was no need for me to change my story about the purchase of the Valerie Harper tickets to make the story "seem" better. I simply changed it because I made a mistake and it needed to be corrected.
Doug, can you give us your first-hand detailed recollection of all that happened with regard to your Valerie Harper connection on that day?
P.S. Uh-oh I think I just got another warning in mail!