Most interesting UFO incidents thread

[Akhenaten]

I've made no "fundamental claim" that interstellar craft have visited Earth.

Are you claiming then that the alien spacecraft you keep nattering on about come from within our own Solar System?

 

[RoboTimbo]

UFOs ( alien craft ) are not supernatural. Interstellar travel is well within the bounds of scientific plausibility.

Of course they aren't supernatural. They don't exist at all.

If you meant that UFOs ( Unidentified Flying Objects ) aren't supernatural, you're correct.

The question of how likely it is that we've been visited by aliens depends on the statistics used. A statistical study was performed by the Battelle Memorial Institute that is quite interesting.

How many aliens have been verified to have visited the Earth?

To my knowledge here is no scientifically verifiable material evidence that proves UFOs are real.

What a silly statement! Of course UFOs are real.

However scientifically verifiable material evidence is the only standard by which we can form reasonable conclusions. This forum also purports to foster the use of critical thinking, and if we apply that process to the problem of UFOs, alien visitation is an entirely reasonable explanation.

What scientifically verifiable evidence do we have that any UFOs ( Unidentified Flying Objects ) were Alien Space Ships?

It has already been mentioned that this topic has been discussed in some detail elsewhere.

Where all the pseudoscientists were roundly spanked.

However the claim that, "not a single incident was described which could not be explained by natural or known causes" is exaggerated.

No, it wasn't.

Virtually anything can be explained by natural or known causes if we choose to alter the information to suit that explanation by assuming any number of possibilities that may or may not have actually been the case. To be fair, that type of behavior also seems to take place on both sides of the argument.

No, only on the believer side when they simply want to believe in their space alien fantasy.

So how many UFO ( Unidentified Flying Object ) cases were proven to be Alien Space Ships?

 

[Reeco]

Of course they aren't supernatural. They don't exist at all.

I believe they do exist. It's just that they've never been to Earth.

 

[Resume]

I believe they do exist. It's just that they've never been to Earth.

Is this just a belief or do you have something else?

You might want to define your terms while you're at it.

 

[Tomtomkent]

I believe they do exist. It's just that they've never been to Earth.

It is probably worth clarifying what you mean.

It is probable there is at least one other life supporting planet.
It is possible that planet has spaceships.
It is improbable those spaceships would be capable of flying between star systems or resemble flying saucers.

If you mean "they do exist" as in "flying saucers" or "alien civilisations that have mastered hyperspace" then you will have a lot of working to show how you came to that conclusion than if you think there is a possibility of single celled life somewhere out there.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

It is probable there is at least one other life supporting planet.
It is possible that planet has spaceships.
It is improbable those spaceships would be capable of flying between star systems or resemble flying saucers.

Astronomers estimate that there could be 100 million earth-like planets in our galaxy alone. Many factors affect the rate and path of evolution, and it would be arrogant to assume that we are the first and/or only species to develop space travel.

It's taken some 3.5 billion years for life on Earth to get to this point, but our technology is advancing at an ever increasing rate, so who knows what we will be capable of in another few thousand years? It is not unreasonable to speculate that intelligent life on some other planet which got even the tiniest head start on us (say 100 thousand years, a tiny blip on the evolutionary time scale) could now have technology that we can only dream of - including interstellar space travel. But with around 100 million planets to explore, what are the chances that they would be visiting us right now? Not great - but still possible.

However, in the unlikely event that an advanced alien species is visiting our planet, it's pretty unlikely that they enjoy making crop circles, mutilating cows, or abducting mentally disturbed people and giving them anal probes. Even if their ships have anti-gravity, warp drives or other mind-bogglingly advanced tech, it's still strange that only a few kooks and UFO nuts are spotting them. As our technology has improved it should have been become harder for them to avoid detection and the evidence should be growing.

But in fact UFO sightings have dramatically diminished and the evidence is just not turning up. So either the aliens have become very shy - or all those past UFO sightings were simply cases of mistaken identity or fraud, and there never were any actual aliens. We can speculate as much as we like, but the evidence just isn't there. When something is highly improbable and you don't have any substantial evidence for it, continuing to believe in it is irrational.

 

[Aepervius]

UFOs ( alien craft ) are not supernatural. Interstellar travel is well within the bounds of scientific plausibility.

I am not even sure that statement stand. As far as we can tell, the only itnerstellar travel we could come up which make sense, are generation ship and ark ship. Which is as far away as what most "UFO=alien" contender would like to use as itnerstellar travel possibility.

Ark ship or generation ship are definitively not something you would be able to hide that easily, especially with respect to breaking time, travel time, within boudn of scientific plausibility.

So yeah, I call dibs on that one.

 

[Tomtomkent]

Astronomers estimate that there could be 100 million earth-like planets in our galaxy alone. Many factors affect the rate and path of evolution, and it would be arrogant to assume that we are the first and/or only species to develop space travel.

Yes. It is possible that there are planets that can, and have sustained life, and may still sustain life.

It is entirely possible that some forms of life can travel into space.

I said that.

Unfortunatley it is not "arrogant" to state that based on the information we have at hand that it is somewhat improbable that any of these theoretical life forms have developed interstellar travel, or craft that match the characteristics of flying saucers as described by most advocates.

It is a fantasy and saying "they could have evolved further and they could have developed a way to ignore the limitations of time and the distances between stars". If the warp drive ever gets developed and we find a way to conquer these problems then we can speculate on the possibility, but frankly, at the moment: No. It is improbable. If and when we have evidence that such feats are possible we can discuss if they are possible for alien races.

Advocates of UFO's being alien vessels tend to base their advocacy on the assumption that given enough time there will be a way to traverse between the stars. To build craft that match the charecteristics of the Flying Saucer. I can see no difference between that and the assumption that some time in the future we will develope a time machine that acts like a flying saucer and lets us pop back to witness humanity in different ages. Or that if there were ghosts they could form strange ligts in the sky. Or gods. Or space vampires. Or teddy bears in hot air balloons.

I do agree that if aliens ever visited us then they would need to make some strange choices to be like Flying Saucers.

 

[Belgian thought]

Astronomers estimate that there could be 100 million earth-like planets in our galaxy alone. Many factors affect the rate and path of evolution, and it would be arrogant to assume that we are the first and/or only species to develop space travel.

It's taken some 3.5 billion years for life on Earth to get to this point, but our technology is advancing at an ever increasing rate, so who knows what we will be capable of in another few thousand years? It is not unreasonable to speculate that intelligent life on some other planet which got even the tiniest head start on us (say 100 thousand years, a tiny blip on the evolutionary time scale) could now have technology that we can only dream of - including interstellar space travel. But with around 100 million planets to explore, what are the chances that they would be visiting us right now? Not great - but still possible.

However, in the unlikely event that an advanced alien species is visiting our planet, it's pretty unlikely that they enjoy making crop circles, mutilating cows, or abducting mentally disturbed people and giving them anal probes. Even if their ships have anti-gravity, warp drives or other mind-bogglingly advanced tech, it's still strange that only a few kooks and UFO nuts are spotting them. As our technology has improved it should have been become harder for them to avoid detection and the evidence should be growing.

But in fact UFO sightings have dramatically diminished and the evidence is just not turning up. So either the aliens have become very shy - or all those past UFO sightings were simply cases of mistaken identity or fraud, and there never were any actual aliens. We can speculate as much as we like, but the evidence just isn't there. When something is highly improbable and you don't have any substantial evidence for it, continuing to believe in it is irrational.

Yes. It is possible that there are planets that can, and have sustained life, and may still sustain life.

It is entirely possible that some forms of life can travel into space.

I said that.

Unfortunatelyit is not "arrogant" to state that based on the information we have at hand that it is somewhat improbable that any of these theoretical life forms have developed interstellar travel, or craft that match the characteristics of flying saucers as described by most advocates.

It is a fantasy and saying "they could have evolved further and they could have developed a way to ignore the limitations of time and the distances between stars". If the warp drive ever gets developed and we find a way to conquer these problems then we can speculate on the possibility, but frankly, at the moment: No. It is improbable. If and when we have evidence that such feats are possible we can discuss if they are possible for alien races.

Advocates of UFO's being alien vessels tend to base their advocacy on the assumption that given enough time there will be a way to traverse between the stars. To build craft that match the charecteristics of the Flying Saucer. I can see no difference between that and the assumption that some time in the future we will develope a time machine that acts like a flying saucer and lets us pop back to witness humanity in different ages. Or that if there were ghosts they could form strange ligts in the sky. Or gods. Or space vampires. Or teddy bears in hot air balloons.

I do agree that if aliens ever visited us then they would need to make some strange choices to be like Flying Saucers.

Guys! Guys! I think you both agree - hug now etc..

 

[Reeco]

It is probably worth clarifying what you mean.

It is probable there is at least one other life supporting planet.
It is possible that planet has spaceships.
It is improbable those spaceships would be capable of flying between star systems or resemble flying saucers.

If you mean "they do exist" as in "flying saucers" or "alien civilisations that have mastered hyperspace" then you will have a lot of working to show how you came to that conclusion than if you think there is a possibility of single celled life somewhere out there.

I believe there are alien craft. I believe that they have been witnessed by sentient beings that couldn't identify them. I actually believe this is less of a wild statement than "they don't exist".

 

[Sideroxylon]

I believe there are alien craft. I believe that they have been witnessed by sentient beings that couldn't identify them. I actually believe this is less of a wild statement than "they don't exist".

No, the default position is that visiting alien space craft do not exist. This is the null hypothesis and we should stick with that until evidence disproves it. Saying they do exist is the "wild statement" as it lacks evidence.

 

[Reeco]

No, the default position is that visiting alien space craft do not exist. This is the null hypothesis and we should stick with that until evidence disproves it. Saying they do exist is the "wild statement" as it lacks evidence.

I didn't say "they do exist". I said "I believe they exist". It's an opinion, on a discussion forum. I also said that I don't believe aliens have visited Earth.

 

[Sideroxylon]

I didn't say "they do exist". I said "I believe they exist". It's an opinion, on a discussion forum. I also said that I don't believe aliens have visited Earth.

Your statement that "they have been witnessed by sentient beings that couldn't identify them" has confused me.

 

[RoboTimbo]

I believe there are alien craft. I believe that they have been witnessed by sentient beings that couldn't identify them. I actually believe this is less of a wild statement than "they don't exist".

Well, no. When I made my statement it was with the understanding that I was referring to here on Earth. I have no concern about speculation of other sentient beings who might exist elsewhere and who might have seen another sentient being's (who might exist elsewhere) craft which might exist in their skies.

 

[Reeco]

Your statement that "they have been witnessed by sentient beings that couldn't identify them" has confused me.

Yeah, I didn't mean humans. I believe someone, somewhere has seen something in the sky they couldn't identify. This could be both a UFO and, from our perspective, an alien craft.

I'm just not a fan of absolutes like "they don't exist". I believe they do because I believe there are other space flight-capable races in the universe. I think this is very likely. I think it is far less likely that someone has seen a craft in the sky that is not from their planet. I don't believe anyone on Earth has ever seen a craft in the sky that is not from Earth.

 

[R.A.F.]

Sorry but if you don't have the stomach to stand behind your UFO = alien spacecraft argument then why should anyone engage with you? It's abundantly clear from previous threads that you believe 'alien spacecraft' to be a plausible explanation for specific cases such as the one you quote and the only reason you want to have an 'informal discussion' is to avoid having to justify that belief.

I've grown fond of the term "Intellectual Coward" to describe such behavior.

 

[tsig]

Yeah, I didn't mean humans. I believe someone, somewhere has seen something in the sky they couldn't identify. This could be both a UFO and, from our perspective, an alien craft.

I'm just not a fan of absolutes like "they don't exist". I believe they do because I believe there are other space flight-capable races in the universe. I think this is very likely. I think it is far less likely that someone has seen a craft in the sky that is not from their planet. I don't believe anyone on Earth has ever seen a craft in the sky that is not from Earth.

So you're saying that some race. somehow, somewhere managed to travel from their planet to another one?

 

[Reeco]

So you're saying that some race. somehow, somewhere managed to travel from their planet to another one?

I know for a fact that's happened.

Edit - Unmanned, of course.

 

[Sideroxylon]

I know for a fact that's happened.

How do you know that's a fact?

 

[Akhenaten]

Yeah, I didn't mean humans. I believe someone, somewhere has seen something in the sky they couldn't identify.

That's what a UFO is.

This could be both a UFO and, from our perspective, an alien craft.

Geeze. Another one.

I'm just not a fan of absolutes like "they don't exist".

Perhaps you'd like to join the "Where does the evidence lead" Club.

The vast majority of us here are members.

I believe they do because I believe there are other space flight-capable races in the universe.

On what basis?

I think this is very likely.

No, you believe it. If you want to claim that you think it then you should probably show your working.

I think it is far less likely that someone has seen a craft in the sky that is not from their planet.

Far less likely than what?

I don't believe anyone on Earth has ever seen a craft in the sky that is not from Earth.

For good or ill, neither do I, although I prefer to express it as "there is no evidence that anyone on Earth has ever seen a craft in the sky that is not from Earth".