Continuation: Discussion of the George Zimmerman case

[phonebook]

Are you ignoring the lack of defensive wounds on Zimmerman's hands and arms?

Serino didn't seem to have a problem with the lack of defensive wounds on GZ's arms:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWyzw-UM_WU&t=16m11s

Serino - "Once again, these are your defensive wounds, which are essentially non-existent. I'm looking for bruising and scrapings, and I don't s... I mean, yeh, yeh, yeh fared pretty well, probably cuz you had long sleeves on, I mean, that's what I'm thinkin; I could write that off pretty easy."

GZ had on a jacket that had some degree of padding, and a compression, long-sleeve t-shirt underneath. There was fairly significant padding covering his arms.

Are you ignoring the lack of wounds on Trayvon to show that he was in an extended even if one sided fight?

Who's to give an educated expectation of what wounds TM should have had? And wounds where? On his knuckles? What sort of wounds would be nearly unavoidable? We don't even know enough about the specific nature of his strikes against GZ to conclude anything in that regard I don't think. TM did have one abrasion on his left fist though, which would likely be consistent with an errant punch, though I imagine it's impossible to specify how that wound got there. I think it's equally impossible to say what wounds TM should have had.

 

[batvette]

I've seen a lot of victim blaming in this and other threads, but this takes the cake.

Evidence that TM's "peers" were "terrorising the neighbourhood". And TM's Dad is at fault for not grounding him? At his age?

Just curious, do you have children?

Please tell me that on his third 2 week suspension in one school year, after being caught with marijuana, burglary tools, and stolen property, this teenager should not have been under direct adult supervision?

And please, tell me, what "at his age" is supposed to mean? Do we mean he is too old and should be treated like an adult, can't GROUND him?

Well let's see how long it takes before we need to argue he is a child on an different point.

When I was in school, if you got suspended you were given make up work to hand in when you returned. It was not a vacation to stay at dad's girlfriend's apartment, LEFT ALONE (it was 1 am before Dad even knew he was gone!) watching NBA all star games and wander off to convenience stores to buy sugar and caffeine laden soft drinks and candy.

Matter of fact you wouldn't be allowed to leave the house except to go to work or do chores. 3rd suspension and it's like a holiday. YES I fault the parents, why do you think they had black teens burglarizing homes? Letting them run around and do what they want, despite bad grades, etc.

As for my children, what's that rule about ad hominem arguments? Are you about to go there? I have 700 children, and named them all Trayvon. I set them loose every night and have them beat up anyone who looks at them funny. They're such little angels.

Now what's that got to do with this event?

 

[phonebook]

The arm in that .gif is never straight enough to account for the lack of angle in the bullet path. The bullet traveled from front to back with no angle at all. Not possible in a prone position.

Put GZ's elbow on the ground, then put a long-legged TM (which would raise his waist/torso plane/height higher than the short/tubby guy in that .GIF file, based on the length between TM's kneed and his waist) on top of him, perhaps TM's crotch a little closer to GZ's neck, and it would certainly be possible.

Anybody who is concluding that it's not possible isn't trying hard enough, and is looking to settle for "not possible" as soon as possible.

 

[KatieG]

TM had a 1/8th inch cut below his left knuckle. Hardly indicative of a brutal assault, where he continually beat GZ in the head and put his hands over GZs mouth to smother him.

But you knew that

 

[lionking]

Please tell me that on his third 2 week suspension in one school year, after being caught with marijuana, burglary tools, and stolen property, this teenager should not have been under direct adult supervision?

And please, tell me, what "at his age" is supposed to mean? Do we mean he is too old and should be treated like an adult, can't GROUND him?

Well let's see how long it takes before we need to argue he is a child on an different point.

When I was in school, if you got suspended you were given make up work to hand in when you returned. It was not a vacation to stay at dad's girlfriend's apartment, LEFT ALONE (it was 1 am before Dad even knew he was gone!) watching NBA all star games and wander off to convenience stores to buy sugar and caffeine laden soft drinks and candy.

Matter of fact you wouldn't be allowed to leave the house except to go to work or do chores. 3rd suspension and it's like a holiday. YES I fault the parents, why do you think they had black teens burglarizing homes? Letting them run around and do what they want, despite bad grades, etc.

As for my children, what's that rule about ad hominem arguments? Are you about to go there? I have 700 children, and named them all Trayvon. I set them loose every night and have them beat up anyone who looks at them funny. They're such little angels.

Now what's that got to do with this event?

So no evidence of TM's peers terrorising the neighbourhood.

As for the question about children, I was curious because grounding a 17 year old who doesn't want to be grounded is virtually impossible. I wanted to know if you had some miraculous way of pulling this off, based on experience.

But more to the point, holding TM's father in any way responsible for his death in victim blaming of the highest order, and it disgusts me. I hope TM's family takes every cent off GZ.

 

[batvette]

Are you discarding witness 8 and the debris field?
Are you ignoring the lack of defensive wounds on Zimmerman's hands and arms?
Are you ignoring the lack of wounds on Trayvon to show that he was in an extended even if one sided fight?
Are you disregarding the significance of there being an adult present that verbally broke up the fight?

I've already posted my theory of what happened. I tried not to leave anything out. You could scroll back to find it. Or, you could ante up your own version.

What, specifically, has witness 8 offered to imply Martin did not assault Zimmerman? How does her listening on the phone trump a reliable eyewitness?

And what "Adult verbally broke up the fight"? Do you mean the witness who yelled at Martin to stop? If so, Martin did not.

 

[Amazer]

Two events: one that took place as GZ was trying to get through to dispatch, which wasn't recorded (and thus not constrained by the time limit of the recorded call), and the second (when TM circles GZ's car), while GZ is connected and the call is being recorded.

Isn't that awfully convenient...

 

[KatieG]

Please tell me that on his third 2 week suspension in one school year, after being caught with marijuana, burglary tools, and stolen property, this teenager should not have been under direct adult supervision?

And please, tell me, what "at his age" is supposed to mean? Do we mean he is too old and should be treated like an adult, can't GROUND him?

Well let's see how long it takes before we need to argue he is a child on an different point.

When I was in school, if you got suspended you were given make up work to hand in when you returned. It was not a vacation to stay at dad's girlfriend's apartment, LEFT ALONE (it was 1 am before Dad even knew he was gone!) watching NBA all star games and wander off to convenience stores to buy sugar and caffeine laden soft drinks and candy.

Matter of fact you wouldn't be allowed to leave the house except to go to work or do chores. 3rd suspension and it's like a holiday. YES I fault the parents, why do you think they had black teens burglarizing homes? Letting them run around and do what they want, despite bad grades, etc.

As for my children, what's that rule about ad hominem arguments? Are you about to go there? I have 700 children, and named them all Trayvon. I set them loose every night and have them beat up anyone who looks at them funny. They're such little angels.

Now what's that got to do with this event?

Some posts have already stepped way over that line.

 

[batvette]

So no evidence of TM's peers terrorising the neighbourhood.

Black males his age in the neighborhood=peers. Disagree? Or are you just here to troll?

As for the question about children, I was curious because grounding a 17 year old who doesn't want to be grounded is virtually impossible. I wanted to know if you had some miraculous way of pulling this off, based on experience.

Why, because they will do what they want anyway? That is rather true, but you either need to have a perform/reward/deprive system in place by then, or be able to physically restrain them.

But the point was don't you think the girlfriend should have had some awareness of this crime spree going on, who was doing it?
You can't have this both ways, arguing Trayvon was a helpless, innocent child, AND he was old enough to be treated as an adult.
Do we want to get into Trayvon's infatuation with gang culture? Hoodies and grilles?

Yes I'm perfectly happy to blame the victim because all evidence points to an unprovoked assault and battery upon a neighborhood watch captain who was merely following an unfamiliar stranger in his own neighborhood. Martin surely felt "hassled" and didn't appreciate the disrespect and felt he should dish out some ghetto justice. You can't do this in a civilized society.

 

[KatieG]

Black males his age in the neighborhood=peers. Disagree? Or are you just here to troll?


Why, because they will do what they want anyway? That is rather true, but you either need to have a perform/reward/deprive system in place by then, or be able to physically restrain them.

But the point was don't you think the girlfriend should have had some awareness of this crime spree going on, who was doing it?
You can't have this both ways, arguing Trayvon was a helpless, innocent child, AND he was old enough to be treated as an adult.
Do we want to get into Trayvon's infatuation with gang culture? Hoodies and grilles?

Oh, there's definitely some trolling going on here.

 

[Dan O.]

What, specifically, has witness 8 offered to imply Martin did not assault Zimmerman? How does her listening on the phone trump a reliable eyewitness?

And what "Adult verbally broke up the fight"? Do you mean the witness who yelled at Martin to stop? If so, Martin did not.

As I thoughht.

I'll be watching for the narative of yours that considers ALL the evidence.

 

[batvette]

Put GZ's elbow on the ground, then put a long-legged TM (which would raise his waist/torso plane/height higher than the short/tubby guy in that .GIF file, based on the length between TM's kneed and his waist) on top of him, perhaps TM's crotch a little closer to GZ's neck, and it would certainly be possible.

Anybody who is concluding that it's not possible isn't trying hard enough, and is looking to settle for "not possible" as soon as possible.

Well they can believe whatever they like but they'll be in for quite a letdown after the trial. This is one of those current events (like all!) where each of our individual opinions won't have the slightest influence on the outcome.

Some speculation here seems absurd. If Zimmerman was prone to calling cops and following people around for nothing, how come in 47 calls to police in a year, that hadn't happened before? Wouldn't they come out in droves? "Hey, this creepy honkey messed with me, too!"???
Why would he call the cops if he intended to racially profile a kid and beat him up? Why would he shoot an unarmed kid needlessly with cops on the way? He's a criminal law major, he wouldn't think like that.

I think he mistook Martin for one of the little hoodlums, based on Martin's actions talking on the phone, Martin didn't like getting hassled and assaulted him. Zimmerman probably barely fought back. I have a very hard time imagining Martin being afraid of Zimmerman nor not being able to easily get away from him to get home- leading to believe Zimmerman's story he was hit and knocked down. There may be an issue left about how the weapon came into play. Did Zimmerman simply pull it out or was it dislodged and Martin went for it? Would it matter?

 

[lionking]

Black males his age in the neighborhood=peers. Disagree?

Yes I do. It's lazy guilt by association. Hell, not even that, because not only have you failed to provide evidence for people terrorising the neighbourhood, you have no evidence that TM was associated with this alleged group of "peers".

 

[lionking]

Yes I'm perfectly happy to blame the victim because all evidence points to an unprovoked assault and battery upon a neighborhood watch captain who was merely following an unfamiliar stranger in his own neighborhood. Martin surely felt "hassled" and didn't appreciate the disrespect and felt he should dish out some ghetto justice. You can't do this in a civilized society.

Repeating this falsehood doesn't make it true, you know.

 

[batvette]

Oh, there's definitely some trolling going on here.

why do I get the impression there's more to that than apparent?

would it help if I mentioned growing up we had a horse... (appaloosa) and a donkey?
actually my sister usually got to ride the horse, I rode the donkey. bareback, by the mane. when I got to be about 10 he didn't like it, so I'd have to wrestle him down to the ground to show him who was boss. I'd have my friends come over and tell 'em "you ain't had fun till you wrestle the donkey! wanna try?"

I do believe Homer was much smarter than Thunder (my sister's horse) though. Lived to be almost 40.

 

[phonebook]

Isn't that awfully convenient...

Convenient? For who? Are you prepared to give GZ the benefit of the doubt for anything? I'd say it's awfully inconvenient, considering anything that comes out of GZ's mouth, unless it serves to bolster a narrative that paints him as guilty of anything/everything he's been accused of or charged with, is immediately dismissed as "a lie" with minimal (if any) contemplation.

 

[batvette]

Repeating this falsehood doesn't make it true, you know.

Post 9091, as referenced from Reuters:

. "The homeowners association asked him to launch a neighborhood watch"

Explain and substantiate as false.

 

[batvette]

Yes I do. It's lazy guilt by association. Hell, not even that, because not only have you failed to provide evidence for people terrorising the neighbourhood, you have no evidence that TM was associated with this alleged group of "peers".

Intellectual if not just plain dishonesty.

Welcome to the ignore zone.

 

[batvette]

As I thoughht.

I'll be watching for the narative of yours that considers ALL the evidence.

Haha, that's rich. You have nothing. It would only take a moment for you to elaborate, you won't because you know you're getting owned.

Have a nice day.

 

[Dancing David]

My guess is "George explain[ing] why he murdered that kid" isn't their exact strategy. Call it a hunch.

So true!

Kudos