Continuation: Discussion of the George Zimmerman case

[phonebook]

There is nothing wrong with his memory if he's able clearly say he got through to NEN and parked his car to talk. That means that you were simply wrong and the call starts with the victim walking from Taaffe's house, just like we've been saying. This means that there's no way that the circling of the car happened. It's physically impossible.

Right, which means your understanding of where the call started is not accurate. Read my post again, and actually listen to the full ~3 1/2 minutes as DS and GZ discuss this and you will understand that GZ did NOT get through while at the clubhouse. TM passes GZ, at the clubhouse, "looks into his vehicle", and GZ "loses contact" with him, while GZ "is still trying to get through" to the non-emergency number.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9115884&postcount=8255

Feel free to break down where my understanding of this, the very first interview GZ gave to anyone, on the very night of the incident, is flawed.

Therefore, George made that up to make his victim sound like the aggressor. I know YOU don't think that matters. But the jury won't agree with you.

As Elypsis44 has been saying lately: "Pound that table"

 

[phonebook]

That means that you were simply wrong and the call starts with the victim walking from Taaffe's house, just like we've been saying.

So where exactly was GZ when he attempted to call the non-emergency number and couldn't get through? Where was he when he was "still trying to get through"?

 

[Unabogie]

Right, which means your understanding of where the call started is not accurate. Read my post again, and actually listen to the full ~3 1/2 minutes as DS and GZ discuss this and you will understand that GZ did NOT get through while at the clubhouse. TM passes GZ, at the clubhouse, "looks into his vehicle", and GZ "loses contact" with him, while GZ "is still trying to get through" to the non-emergency number.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9115884&postcount=8255

Feel free to break down where my understanding of this, the very first interview GZ gave to anyone, on the very night of the incident, is flawed.



As Elypsis44 has been saying lately: "Pound that table"

Because in the walk through, he clearly says he got through, then pulled in, then stopped to talk. He then describes his conversation clearly, including why he pulled out of the clubhouse. You can hand wave all you want but the facts are the facts. You don't get to just substitute your new reality when the facts are inconvenient.

 

[Unabogie]

So where exactly was GZ when he attempted to call the non-emergency number and couldn't get through? Where was he when he was "still trying to get through"?

"And when I got through, parked at the clubhouse."

 

[phonebook]

Because in the walk through, he clearly says he got through, then pulled in, then stopped to talk. He then describes his conversation clearly, including why he pulled out of the clubhouse.

But in that same walk-through video you're referencing, literally 25 seconds later, he says that he stopped at the clubhouse "to call". Not only that, he described multiple times that he hadn't gotten through while at the clubhouse in his interview with Singleton the night before; the very night of the incident. But since he said it one time, you're convinced that he definitely got through just as he happens to drive past the clubhouse... timed perfectly apparently.

Perhaps you're the one who's wrong? Is that something you're even willing to stop and consider? GZ's story of TM coming back to circle his car is even described (without actually using the word "circling") on the NEN call from the 0:57 mark to the 1:40 mark. Even that nutjob GZ hater Trent/stateoftheinternet (the maker of that video you linked earlier) says that TM asks GZ "Do you have a problem?" in the exact same spot that I hear TM speak to GZ, which is when GZ claims TM "circled" his vehicle:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eLD0_I7h2w&t=5m00s

With GZ NOT at the clubhouse when he finally gets through, and thus when the call starts recording, GZ's story actually matches up quite well with the NEN call.

You can hand wave all you want but the facts are the facts. You don't get to just substitute your new reality when the facts are inconvenient.

More table pounding. You could have stopped your comment with the first above quote.

 

[johnny karate]

And that is imply not true.

Then pleased provide me that specific reason I must have overlooked for O'Mara backing out of the immunity hearing.

No, it means he might not have been charged by a grand jury, so the easy way to ensure he is charged is to use a political process to charge him instead.

Your subtle shifting of the goal posts did not go unnoticed.

If you want to call what Corey did a political process, fine. Whatever.

But we're not talking about the charges being filed via a political process.

We're talking about the charges being filed for a political purpose. And without evidentary support. You know, like how a lot of people were claiming about a year ago.

Funny how nothing ever came of the prosecutors filing a bogus and unethical affidavit.

I'm not a lawyer, but I feel like that might be grounds for dismissal.

Potentially allows him if there is blatant bias. Subtle bias, not so much.

Well, I guess when you're the third judge up you have to keep that bias subtle, or people might start to get wise to the conspiracy.

Too bad for Zimmerman he can't find any unbiased judges.

Or that the alleged bias that's taking place can't actually be demonstrated.

I think it does, sometimes. How many examples do I need to provide of the criminal justice system going horribly wrong before you admit it is possible ? Because I feel pretty confident I can find examples.

Again, goal post shift noted.

We're not talking about the criminal justice system "going horribly wrong", and no one is claiming it is infallible.

What we are talking about is the ridiculous misrepresentation of the process that says that somehow a wrongly accused person has no options to protect themselves from wrongful prosecution.

They do.

And Zimmerman's attorneys have passed up at least two opportunities to make this case go away. A motion for dismissal and an immunity hearing.

Zimmerman's defenders feel the need to concoct some bizarre conspiracy theory involving the prosecutors, the judges, and even Zimmerman's own lawyer in order to make sense of it all.

I prefer the simple and direct route of believing the charges against Zimmerman actually have merit, and that everyone involved with actual legal expertise knows it.

 

[Noztradamus]

~~~In the walk through, GZ describes TM as approaching him from a diagonal and coming to stop directly in front of him, with GZ facing Retreat View Circle and his back to Twin Trees Lane, on the Twin Trees side of the sidewalk T. ~~~~.

George says he was "returning to his vehicle" by walking backwards now?

Curiouser and curioser.

 

[Unabogie]

It's not table pounding. Table pounding is when you don't have the facts. We have George clearly, and in detail, explaining why he stopped to park, the conversation he had while parked, what he saw while parked, and the exact thing the dispatcher said to him to make him start driving again.

If you put that together with the timeline in the NEN call, it's physically impossible for Trayvon to have made it to the T and back around his car. So you have to just make up a whole new scenario in which the call he made while parked at the clubhouse took place in some other unknown, unmentioned place.

Sorry, George is going to have to explain this and it won't be good for him.

You can say POUND ON THE TABLE all you like, but it still comes down to him being fried by his own lies.

 

[phonebook]

This guy on another forum I frequent posted this last April.

He was DEAD ON.

Mr. Zimmerman made 46 calls to 911 since the beginning of 2011 to report disturbances, break-ins, windows left open and other incidents.

Not quite dead on with the above info. GZ had called 46 times since 2004, about a 7 1/2 year span. And most of those calls were to a non-emergency number, not 911.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

I never called you a racist, which would be against the MA.

And I never claimed you did. You have a difficult time reading fro content.

I said you said something racist.

Except that I didn't say anything racist.

And I also note that you disbelieve every witness who is black.

Witness 8 is a proven liar. The youtube video you linked to - that guy isn't a witness.

I'm really not sure who else you are referring to, so please spell it out for me - be specific.

And your whole support of George is based on your willingness to believe that Trayvon was moved to attempted murder at the drop of a hat,

I believe it about as much as you believe GZ was.

spoke ridiculous dialogue,

Because I don't know who says "homie" these days?

and acted completely without reason,

Simply not true

while you're bending over into pretzel shapes to defend a guy with a history of anger problems and violence and refused to believe that he acted the way he's known for acting.

And you bend everything he does, including not updating the address on his DL into proof he murdered someone.

You believe there's a conspiracy coming from the family of the victim and that their lawyer is perpetrating a fraud on the country by introducing a changeling as a witness in a murder case.

I do ? Really ? What leads you to that conclusion ?

Only you know what's in your heart, but your actions are worth calling out.

Which action was that - be specific. Calling TM an "inner city youth" ? Is that not true ?

 

[Unabogie]

Which action was that - be specific. Calling TM an "inner city youth" ? Is that not true ?

Oh, I don't know. What an "inner city youth"? Give me your definition.

 

[phonebook]

It's not table pounding. Table pounding is when you don't have the facts.

I split your post into two parts. The first part contained the facts, the second part contained the unnecessary table pounding.

We have George clearly, and in detail, explaining why he stopped to park, the conversation he had while parked, what he saw while parked, and the exact thing the dispatcher said to him to make him start driving again.

Yup, we sure do. On the night of the incident, GZ explains to Detective Singleton that he stopped at the clubhouse to call the non-emergency number, but didn't get through right away. While still trying to get through, TM passed him, looks into his vehicle, and then GZ loses contact with him as TM rounds the corner.

Did you notice how this "exact thing the dispatcher said to him to make him start driving again" you're referring to did NOT happen on the NEN call? Was that another one of GZ's "lies", or was that his memory playing tricks on him again?

If you put that together with the timeline in the NEN call, it's physically impossible for Trayvon to have made it to the T and back around his car. So you have to just make up a whole new scenario in which the call he made while parked at the clubhouse took place in some other unknown, unmentioned place.

Yes, it's physically impossible, but I didn't have to make up anything to explain it. GZ actually explains what happened, multiple times, with a good degree of clarity, in the first interview with Detective Singleton, which I linked and transcribed for you. Have you listened to that part I linked yet?

You being wrong actually puts things in a much better degree of focus, yet you refuse to acknowledge that as a possibility.

 

[Dan O.]

In the NEN call, I hear noises like the car shifting into gear at about 97.51 seconds. This is while George is saying "these ********, they always get away". This would be George backing out from the clubhouse after Trayvon went around the corner and out of sight. The last definite time George sees Travon was at 80.96 seconds when George says: "yup, he's coming to check me out".

George needs to pull around the corner to regain sight of Trayvon and while he's taxing his brain with that task he's also trying to give the dispatcher instructions. After George pulls onto Twin Trees and drives past the mailboxes, he's expecting to see Trayvon but there are several directions in which he could have gone. He could have circled around the clubhouse, followed the path around the lake or headed east on Twin Trees. It takes George a moment to recognize what he's seeing, probably in the streetlight at the next corner and thus the long drawn sss in "****, he's running" at 126.93 seconds.

Someone can check if the timing works for Trayvon to run from the clubhouse to the end of the block in less than (126.93-80.96) = 45.97 seconds.

George rushes to the corner and parks on the wrong side of the road (shifting noises heard at 129.44 seconds) and gets out of the truck (tones begins at 130.01 seconds, door closes at 134.09 seconds). And is running (wind noise at 140.93 seconds) into the dog walk area. George runs past an open window with a radio or TV playing (vocal noises at 155.68 seconds) and the intermittent wind noise finally stops (at 160.07 seconds) after George make the final "he ran" statement (at 157.74 seconds). How far could George run in (160.07 - 140.93) = 19.14 seconds?

 

[Dancing David]

Spelling affects credibility how?

It does if you are stuck in the past and never knew someone with dyslexia. maybe we can judge her penmanship next.

There is plenty to question her credibility without even mentioning the spelling of Trayvon's name. Such an argument about spelling would be hilarious.

 

[Unabogie]

It does if you are stuck in the past and never knew someone with dyslexia. maybe we can judge her penmanship next.

There is plenty to question her credibility without even mentioning the spelling of Trayvon's name. Such an argument about spelling would be hilarious.

It's the subtext that makes it even more bizarre. They think she's not really who she says she is, which is why they think this is damning.

"How could she be his childhood friend but not know how to spell his name? She must be an impostor!"

It reminds me of the birthers.

 

[phonebook]

George rushes to the corner and parks on the wrong side of the road (shifting noises heard at 29.44 seconds) and gets out of the truck (tones begins at 130.01 seconds, door closes at 134.09 seconds).

Still contemplating your entire post, but a couple thoughts about the above Hilited part: first off, I think you forgot a 1 in front of the two there; secondly, I used to also think the sound at 129.44 seconds was him shifting into park or something, but I never felt quite comfortable with that conclusion as the "shifting sound" there is much higher pitched, and the clicks are faster than the other "shifting sounds" heard earlier in the call (which I believe are actually shifting noises). Anyway, I believe that noise at 129.44 is actually him twisting the keys in the ignition to the OFF position. I lean towards that, but I suppose it's possibly him repositioning the steering column up and out of the way so he can exit his vehicle as well.

 

[Unabogie]

Here is his first interview with Singleton. There's nothing in here about not getting through or getting disconnected.

https://www.txantimedia.com/?p=987

Zimmerman: Um, I called the non emergency line and I just reported that there was a suspicious person in the neighborhood. Um, the dispatcher, whoever answered the phone asked me where they went and I said I wasn’t sure because I lost visual of him when he went in between houses. And, uh, he said well can you tell me what direction he went. I said not really. Um, and then all of a sudden I see him circling my car. And, and then he goes back into the darkness. So..
Singleton: unintelligible. You pull out of your house…and you’re heading..

 

[Unabogie]

Here he is again, saying he called at the clubhouse, no mention he couldn't get through:

Singleton: Can you just pause that for a minute? OK, when you explained it to me, you said you had pulled over initially at the clubhouse, correct?
Zimmerman: Yes, ma’am.
Singleton: OK, but it seems so fast, and then I thought you told me, and you can correct me if I’m wrong, I thought you said they asked you, can you still see him, and you said, you told them you couldn’t, and you asked, and they said, well get to where you can see where he’s at. And you told me it was at that point you moved.
Zimmerman: Yes, ma’am.
Singleton: Now you’re saying he’s coming up to your car. Does that mean you’ve already, at this point in the tape, you’re already on Twin Tree, the street you didn’t know the name of at the time?
Zimmerman: Um, no, I was on, I called when I was at the clubhouse.

And so, sorry people. He was on the phone at the clubhouse, which means we heard what he said, which means he couldn't have had Trayvon circle his car, which means he just made that up.

And I'm just doing this in my spare time while surfing the net. The prosecution is going to destroy this liar.

 

[phonebook]

Here is his first interview with Singleton. There's nothing in here about not getting through or getting disconnected.

https://www.txantimedia.com/?p=987

It should be marked the second tape in that format.

ETA: https://www.txantimedia.com/?p=996

 

[tsig]

But that's the point, isn't it?

I would have thought the HOA could just point to the guidelines and say "GZ was flouting the guidelines - so it's on GZ... either he is liable (or he is justified) but either way, what more could the HOA have done? Remember, "his NW had a policy of not persuing suspicious persons"... if that doesn't cover you... how can any neighborhood afford to have a neighborhood watch?

Not allow their captain to go Rambo commando.