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Continuation: Discussion of the George Zimmerman case

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Skeptic Tank said:
I'm not sure if she lied to Crump about her age, or if he told her he was going to lie about it on her behalf... no idea.

What I think the most obvious purpose of that lie was, is achieving a lower level of scrutiny from the press and everyone else, directed at her. "Oh she's a minor, guess it's hands off and tread lightly."

I've heard others suggest another parallel purpose, which is avoiding unpleasant questions of statutory issues with Trayvon, who was 17. I don't put much stock in that, because how would anyone prove they'd been intimate? I guess perhaps it could be proven if one or both of them made reference to that on social media or to someone else... but I don't consider that to have been a reasonable basis for fearing her real age being known. Then again, just because it was an unreasonable thing to fear, doesn't mean she didn't fear it.

Personally though, I only mention that to be complete, and because I've seen others mention it. I personally just think it was a method to reduce scrutiny and follow up by press.
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What the hell? Others from the CTH, no doubt, who will do anything to trash TM, his family and, apparently, his friends. That's just nasty and the subject has never been raised before.
 
KatieG said:
What the hell? Others from the CTH, no doubt, who will do anything to trash TM, his family and, apparently, his friends. That's just nasty and the subject has never been raised before.
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Well you asked for reasons for the lie so I passed along something I'd seen others entertain. Don't you think you might be taking things people contemplate re: Trayvon and his family a little bit too personally?

What do you think her reasons for lying about her age were? Or Crump's reasons for lying about it? Or, if you don't think either of them lied about it, what do you think went on with her age?
 
Skeptic Tank said:
Well you asked for reasons for the lie so I passed along something I'd seen others entertain. Don't you think you might be taking things people contemplate re: Trayvon and his family a little bit too personally?

What do you think her reasons for lying about her age were? Or Crump's reasons for lying about it? Or, if you don't think either of them lied about it, what do you think went on with her age?
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If Crump didn't ask her about her age, that speaks to both his agenda and his competence.

I would think ABC would have to get a signed release from her if an adult, and from the parents if a minor. So right there Crump should know which she is.

But he repeatedly called her a minor, perhaps in order to keep her sheltered from ...something. And I guess it worked to a certain extent, because it seems most people thought she was a minor, including MOM.
 
Skeptic Tank said:
Well you asked for reasons for the lie so I passed along something I'd seen others entertain. Don't you think you might be taking things people contemplate re: Trayvon and his family a little bit too personally?
What do you think her reasons for lying about her age were? Or Crump's reasons for lying about it? Or, if you don't think either of them lied about it, what do you think went on with her age?
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Seriously?
 
TheL8Elvis said:
I would think ABC would have to get a signed release from her if an adult, and from the parents if a minor. So right there Crump should know which she is.
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If you had read Crump's statement concerning that first telephone interview you would already know you are wrong.
 
Rare Truth said:
Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank
~~~~
Nothing "CTH" or delusional about it, that's just your cheap tactic to dismiss it without any thought or actually showing why it's implausible. We know Trayvon came close enough to GZ's truck to prompt GZ to roll up the window and sound fearful as he begged for an officer to be there SOONER, how is it delusional to think this may have also put him close enough to the truck to make out the word "officer" etc?

GZ may have even made a point to say those words louder in the hopes it would scare TM off.
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"fearful" "begged"

...
So the fearful beggar RUNS after the ******* crazed "suspect" who is up to no good and he perceives as having a weapon (as he 'reached into his waistband) ...

Oh ****, "he ran!"

dun dun dunnn!
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" These ********, they always get away. "

You know that's exactly how I express myself when i'm fearful.

And if the person who made me afeard then skips away, I get out of my car and chase them "This. Isn't. Over!"
 
Skeptic Tank said:
Or over through not having started to begin with... via SPD declining to charge Zimmerman, or Norm Wolfinger doing likewise.

Fact is, this case was over. Rightfully so. It lives now in a strange undeath, which seems to have very little to do with the law or evidence, and a lot to do with politics and possibly fear of riots.
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So is the conspiracy your alleging the excuse you plan to use whenever things don't go Zimmerman's way, and he possibly gets convicted of murder?

Because I find it awfully strange that a case that you think has so little evidence against Zimmerman that he shouldn't have even been charged isn't going directly to an immunity hearing to get that sorely deserved acquittal.

It's just hilarious to listen to Zimmerman's defenders caterwaul about the injustice of it all while Zimmerman's lawyers are passing up a golden opportunity to end that injustice once and for all.

You should really email your complaints to O'Mara. Because right now, he's the one prolonging things.
 
Wolrab said:
Was GZ near a street lamp? If so he would be very visible.
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Yes, he was. In fact, the part you quoted is GZ talking about why he waited at RVC for an undetermined amount of time. Here's a picture of the eastern end of the T, and you can see the street lamp right there (circled). He could have had light from the fronts of houses there too.

3qY17p1.png
 
Unabogie said:
Sure. He recognized a complete stranger as the same person following him at night in a truck based on the bright lights of a cellphone pressed up against his cheek with the lights facing his head. And the bright lights facing from behind him from the backs of people's homes.
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TM had gotten a good look at this "complete stranger" two times at this point: Once when he walked by him at the clubhouse and "looked into [GZ's] vehicle", and the other time "now he's coming towards me", "he's coming to check me out", when he circled his vehicle. Ya think maybe he noticed GZ was a bald-headed man at that point, who was on the phone? At what distance would someone not be able to recognize a bald, male figure they had just seen less than a minute previous, who is also talking on a phone? The lighting from the homes behind GZ would have made him somewhat more visible/identifiable. There are also two street lamps, one at each end of the T which may have given just a little extra light to the top of the T (where GZ was), but that light would not have spilled into the southward T area because of the buildings/homes blocking it.

This is the one on TTL. If this one gave any light at the T intersection, it would have been minimal (too sharp of an angle). It all depends on the angle between where TM was, and where the light from that lamp reached the T.

GGdqJbB.png


Here's the one on RVC; the one that GZ seems to have stayed near at some point (because he had light there) before heading back to his truck. This one would have definitely had a good angle to illuminate the top of the T to some extent. It may have been really minimal (I don't know how bright they are), but it would have only reached GZ, and not TM, or any point of any significant distance south of the T.

hDvKPqQ.png


And finally... this is just something I threw together to show the angles of the lamps where the light could have reached (indicated by the yellow lines), and the blue lines are where TM could have potentially been hiding (if that's what he did), and his potential vantage points with which to see GZ at various points when GZ was at the T, or even when he was on RVC.

JgYqZrM.jpg
 
johnny karate said:
Because I find it awfully strange that a case that you think has so little evidence against Zimmerman that he shouldn't have even been charged isn't going directly to an immunity hearing to get that sorely deserved acquittal.
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There are many more factors at play in this case than just the evidence (or lack thereof) for a judge to weigh with regards to whether he or she wants to be the person solely responsible (and thus to "blame") for granting someone like Zimmerman total immunity.
 
KatieG said:
Unless you are a sock puppet for Skeptic Tank, your answer is irrelevant.
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You don't think you've demonstrated any signs of taking things directed at Trayvon and his family too personally? Alright, nevermind then.

johnny karate said:
It's just hilarious to listen to Zimmerman's defenders caterwaul about the injustice of it all while Zimmerman's lawyers are passing up a golden opportunity to end that injustice once and for all.
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If O'Mara and/or Zimmerman have become convinced that this judge is no way, no how going to grant him immunity (whether they're right about that or not) that combined with financial considerations would help you understand why they aren't bothering with a separate immunity hearing ahead of time.

Noztradamus said:
" These ********, they always get away. "

You know that's exactly how I express myself when i'm fearful.

And if the person who made me afeard then skips away, I get out of my car and chase them "This. Isn't. Over!"
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That expression of frustration is perfectly in line with the typical emotions of someone frightening you, and then the threat receding. Plenty of people will feel embarrassed that they were frightened, and it manifests in irritation and bluster.

And if the person appears to run for it, and the other person doesn't consider that they may come back... it would be easy to see how they wouldn't think the running person is a threat any longer. If they got caught up in trying to be helpful to the police and were absorbed in their conversation with the dispatcher, they might not have as many brain cycles to dedicate to thinking about possibilities like that, and the adrenaline of being in the moment might make them do something which, on later reflection may not have been ideal. Like repositioning themselves somewhere in the dark further from the street to try to maintain a visual. Exposed, no longer encased in a big heavy truck. And then to cut their other lifeline to safety... that being the phone connection to dispatch.

I think GZ just simply didn't consider that TM would come back. Think poorly of him for not considering that if you wish, but however stupid you believe it to be... I don't think it justifies attacking him.
 
Not a bad day for the defense, eh? ;)

Good catch by someone elsewhere on the net:

Bombshell @ page 21 of the DCA petition to depose Crump:

"Out of the 25-minute clear recording ABC News took of the interview, ABC has
only preserved the 5-minute clip referenced supra."

Evidence destruction, much?
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Why does George cross the road?

phonebook said:
And finally... this is just something I threw together to show the angles of the lamps where the light could have reached (indicated by the yellow lines), and the blue lines are where TM could have potentially been hiding (if that's what he did), and his potential vantage points with which to see GZ at various points when GZ was at the T, or even when he was on RVC.
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I don't believe George ever says he crossed to the other side of RVC. If his intent was to watch for Trayvon crossing the road at the back entrance, he could do that from the west side of the road.

In fact, you have been putting a lot of effort into changing George's story for him. Did you know that if George had parked where he said he parked in front of the clubhouse when he made the police call, he would be able to see the address of the clubhouse in large black letters on the left pillar in front of the entrance. Of course, at that angle and with the rain on his windscreen he misreads the address as 111 instead of 1111. Fortunately for George, right outside his driver window is the stop sign with the crossed street signs reading "RETREAT VIEW CIR." and "TWIN TREES". George may not have had to look since he probably sees this sigh almost every day. Of course, I'm making a presumption that George can read. Is there any supporting evidence?

At the clubhouse, George indicates that Trayvon walked past him and kept looking at his car. George says he then "cut down here and made a right, and this is Twin Trees Lane". This sure is getting specific for being confused and not remembering what happened. Of course, this is in the middle of a phantom conversation George is having with the dispatcher about "where did he go, what direction did he go in", and George saying: "I don't know, I lost track..." which isn't on the tape from the night before. George seems to have these phantom conversations that are all in his head quite a lot.
 
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Dan O. said:
Did you know that if George had parked where he said he parked in front of the clubhouse when he made the police call, he would be able to see the address of the clubhouse in large black letters on the left pillar in front of the entrance. Of course, at that angle and with the rain on his windscreen he misreads the address as 111 instead of 1111.
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What do you think was going on with George during the call, do you believe he was misrepresenting his level of knowledge about street names and pretending to be unable to get a clear address when he actually could, in order to deceive the dispatcher and get an officer on the way... but ensure the officer didn't arrive too quickly? Giving him time enough to murderize Trayvon first?

I'm just honestly trying to grasp what it is you're getting at. A lot of you folks seem very resistant to believing George really didn't know the name of that street, etc... but it seems to be something where you enjoy making implications of something sinister going on, but never actually spelling it out (probably because you know it would sound absurd) so... if I'm wrong, maybe you can clear this up for me?
 
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