Friends and MLM recruitment. HELP!

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I think we've still got some Tupperware, as it is pretty durable, but you've been able to buy multiple containers for buttons in any poundshop for ages, so I imagine the bottom fell out of that market years ago.

slight drop in sales last year, but at $2.5billion/yr Tupperware is still going strong, though they've expanded in to beauty and personal care as well.
 
At least Boots aren't guilting friends and family into buying that rubbish.

Do people who own more traditional businesses never try to get their friends and family to buy their products and services? Is that what you believe?

As for "guilting", bad salesmanship is bad salesmanship, doesn't matter the industry. One of the weaknesses of the network marketing model is they'll generally let anyone give it a try. It's also one of the strengths of the model.
 
Do people who own more traditional businesses never try to get their friends and family to buy their products and services? Is that what you believe?

No but they aren't as dependent on sales to family and friends (or even recruiting family and friends into the pyramid).

As for "guilting", bad salesmanship is bad salesmanship, doesn't matter the industry. One of the weaknesses of the network marketing model is they'll generally let anyone give it a try. It's also one of the strengths of the model.

The major weakness on the other hand is selling over-priced rubbish and having to send the majority of the profits "upstream"
 
I would prefer a less aggressive approach.

It's based on personal experience. Two friends tried to rope me into the then current incarnation of Amway. I gave it a try, but after their "big" (the next person up the chain) kept insisting I buy all these CDs and booklets, etc., and not giving a damn that I couldn't afford them (I was a college student working for a video store, she was a sports doctor working with an NBA team) I gave the whole thing both middle fingers.
 
A basic truth with MLM that's hard to get around is the fact that the products are just not competitive. If you have a competitive product, you're going to sell that product to retailers and make lots of profit. If you don't have a competitive product, you can instead sell the opportunity to sell the opportunity to sell the opportunity to find some other sucker to sell the opportunity to sell the product to people seeking opportunities to sell opportunities to maybe at some point sell a starter kit of the product. If you have a product that people actually want to buy, there's no benefit to using an MLM model.
 
A basic truth with MLM that's hard to get around is the fact that the products are just not competitive. If you have a competitive product, you're going to sell that product to retailers and make lots of profit. If you don't have a competitive product, you can instead sell the opportunity to sell the opportunity to sell the opportunity to find some other sucker to sell the opportunity to sell the product to people seeking opportunities to sell opportunities to maybe at some point sell a starter kit of the product. If you have a product that people actually want to buy, there's no benefit to using an MLM model.

An excellent point and the reason why icerat's statement below is so off,

Do people who own more traditional businesses never try to get their friends and family to buy their products and services? Is that what you believe?

I do own a traditional business and I do ask friends and family to refer people but its based on the strength of the product not a promise of riches.

In the WV model if they had a real business bulk buying vacations to offer them a discounts to members you might actually have something there. The reality is they do not bulk buy vacations as they claim. They use a 3rd party, Rovia, to book everything. Anyone can go through rovia and book vacations. The ONLY thing WV is selling is the chance to to make money selling other people the chance to make money.

I was wondering how accurate as assessment the following is,

The diminishing odds of making money with a pyramid scheme make it a losing proposition because each time a new level rises to the top, a new level must be added to the bottom, each one at least twice as large as the one before.

Pyramid schemes are based on simple mathematics: many losers pay a few winners. A nine-level pyramid, which is built when each participant gets six "friends" to join, would involve over ten million people!

6
36
216
1,296
7,776
46,656
279,936
1,679,616
10,077,696

link

As for Jesus I said I was not comfortable with the MLM model and thanks for thinking of me. He asked me to sleep on it.

As for Marcus I told him I would not be comfortable selling this to family so I could not sell it to anyone else. He just said OK. I want to go back to Marcus with some real numbers
 
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A basic truth with MLM that's hard to get around is the fact that the products are just not competitive. If you have a competitive product, you're going to sell that product to retailers and make lots of profit. If you don't have a competitive product, you can instead sell the opportunity to sell the opportunity to sell the opportunity to find some other sucker to sell the opportunity to sell the product to people seeking opportunities to sell opportunities to maybe at some point sell a starter kit of the product. If you have a product that people actually want to buy, there's no benefit to using an MLM model.

I think this is generally true, but not universal. If you go to the DSA website there are several members that have legitimate products, but the business was started by a salesperson or a direct selling devotee, so they have stuck with that model.

The direct selling model allows for lower costs as a start up. Then, if you start as a direct seller it is very difficult to turn away from that model. Most of the people who like your products are part of the direct selling structure and will feel betrayed the moment your product shows up in a local shop or national chain. So, to move away from direct selling you have to go from having a large sustaining base of customers to having a large vocal group of critics. Not a very attractive business proposition.

Another consideration is that the margins are very good for direct sellers. Most direct sellers have margins that are about double their competitors. It is not hard to generate a lot of cash at such margins. Moving to higher volume but lower margins is not always attractive if you are making tons of money already.

So, while I would agree with your general proposition, there are some direct sellers who have compelling product and are stuck in the direct selling model because it is almost impossible to get out of it.

All that being said, there is little upside in being a sales person for a direct seller. You will almost never hear of successful executives leaving direct selling companies to start selling the product. They may leave the company to set up ancillary businesses, such as training or sales services, but never to sell the product. Conversely, many restaurant franchises are owned by former executives of the franchisor.

In other words, those who know the business well know that the money is not in selling the product or recruiting sales teams.
 
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If all of this is true, that you value your relationship with Marco and want to advise him to get out, and you view him as a grown man capable of making (and presumably dealing with) his own mistakes, why not just talk to the guy and be honest? I'm not seeing where the downside is in a polite, frank discussion with your friend.

If he is so offended by a reasonable, factual conversation from a concerned friend that it damages your relationship, then he's not much of a grownup or much of a friend.

A very good point. I want to gather a bit more information and then I will just put it all together and give it to him.
 
Why don't they know what they're talking about?

FitzPatrick and Taylor make many claims that are based on false assumptions and in some cases outright lies (for example they claim for an MLM to be legal it has to sell 70% of products to people who aren't registered as distributors).

They make their living as professional "critics", not only providing "expert witness" services but actively encouraging people to file lawsuits. They almost always lose. In a recent case in Canada they encouraged a couple to file a class action lawsuit against Amway. They lost and the court awarded costs to Amway - potentially millions of dollars, far more than any individual has "lost" participating in an MLM. Amway, to their credit, has apparently chosen not to pursue them for this. Much of the current Herbalife short battle is based on their claims, FitzPatrick is liberally cited as a source by Bill Ackman. Ackman and his investors currently stand to lose hundreds of millions of dollars on this.

A basic truth with MLM that's hard to get around is the fact that the products are just not competitive.

You've made an extremely broad claim here. The direct selling industry, which is primarily multi-level, is a $150 billion industry involving over 90 million people and tens of thousands of companies, some of which are market leaders in their product categories.

Of course there's scams and BS products and overpriced products. There is in traditional retailing too. Can you support your overall claim of this being a "basic truth" for direct sales companies?

If you have a competitive product, you're going to sell that product to retailers and make lots of profit.

Why wouldn't you sell it through independent distributors and make lots of profit?

If you have a product that people actually want to buy, there's no benefit to using an MLM model.

For many products direct selling has advantages over typical retail outlets. Take water filters. A direct seller will come to your home, demonstrate it, show you how it works, and often even install one for you to test for a while before you decide to purchase.

Or weight- loss programs, where the "product" may come with personal coaching and support networks.

Or skin care cosmetics, another big seller in direct sales. "Home parties" are an ideal setting to be able to try out different products in (done properly) a relaxed atmosphere.

Sex toys have been another ... ahh... growing ... field in direct sales. :D

It's difficult to differentiate your product if it's sitting on a retail shelf, the cost of mass market advertising is enormous, and decreasingly effective. Direct sales isn't appropriate for every product but it has distinct advantages in some categories.

If you don't have a competitive product, you can instead sell the opportunity to sell the opportunity to sell the opportunity to find some other sucker to sell the opportunity to sell the product to people seeking opportunities to sell opportunities to maybe at some point sell a starter kit of the product.

If you don't have a competitive product that people don't want to buy then you won't last long in direct sales either. If you're just selling the opportunity, and people are just buying because of the opportunity, then you're a pyramid scheme. Critics like Taylor and FitzPatrick believe this to be the case with all MLMs, but it's simply not supported by the data. Heck, I'm not building an MLM business but I've been buying products from an MLM company for years. Why? I like them and find them of good value. I'm not the only one.

A University of Westminster study a few years ago, on Public Perceptions of Direct Selling found that nearly half of people had purchased from a direct seller, and those that did so found the experience positive, with value and appeal of the product being a major reason for purchase. Furthermore 90% would purchase from direct sellers again, and more than 80% of would recommend it to family and friends. (note: 13% of the sample were direct sellers themselves).

That's the reality. Interestingly, the study also found that people who had never been a customer of a direct seller had negative views of the industry. They're views are obviously driven either by hearsay or a negative experience with a particular direct seller.
 
All that being said, there is little upside in being a sales person for a direct seller. You will almost never hear of successful executives leaving direct selling companies to start selling the product.

I know of several, one of whom is a good friend. He resigned as an executive at a well known direct sales company in order to become an agent, where he has built a very significant business, earning much more than any his previous colleagues

In other words, those who know the business well know that the money is not in selling the product or recruiting sales teams.

Or it's just not something for them. The entrepreneurial life is not for everyone, and money is not everyone's primary motivator.
 
The basic question that needs to be asked is this: If this product or service is so great, then why isn't it being sold through the customary marketing system that has served human society for thousands of years? Why does it need to resort to a "special marketing" scheme like an MLM? Why does everyone need to be so inexperienced at marketing this! Is the product just a thin cover for what is really a pyramid scheme of exploiting others?

Reading this analysis of the MLM model. I think Marcus will respond well to this type of info.

link.
 
Forget these scams and join Monkey Level Marketing instead. Work for yourself by working for me. You provide the ambition and the product and the work, and I provide you with the opportunity to provide me them. Don't let yourself not start not doing this exciting opportunity tomorrow! You only get out of life what you put into it, and you should let me put good things into yours. The sky is the limit with our fees!
 
Reading this analysis of the MLM model. I think Marcus will respond well to this type of info.

link.

VanDruff says -

An MLM could never work, even in theory. Think about it.

Yes indeed. Think about that statement, and think about this.

When reality contradicts your conclusions, it's a reasonable idea to consider that maybe there are flaws in your analysis.

Here's a lengthier response to VanDruff's post.
 

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