Proof of Life After Death!!

[azzthom]

Hey! Are you always looking for something to "believe"?

As I clearly implied: LAD is something cannot be discussed. It can only be talked about, but demanding or offering "proof" shows a lack of comprehension to the problem.

I think the worst mental attitude is asking: "Give me a proof so I can believe"...

Believing means accepting a fact without proof.

Once you have a clear proof you don't believe on it. You know it.

There are proofs which are only personal. Read my posts above, not just come in and grab the tail of the discussion.

That's a very strange attitude for someone who claims to sit on university boards. Could you tell us which universities? In what capacity? You claimed to have students in another thread, so what subject do you teach?

 

[Pixel42]

My lawyer wife, who deals with penal justice, frequently meets dangerous criminals and visit regularly several prisons to interview inmates.

She tells me it is mostly invariable those interns have no sense of spirituality, have no faith and reject any notion of God, LAD, or moral rectitude.

And yet the least religious countries tend to have the lowest crime rates. How do you explain that?

We strongly believe the moral destruction attempted by spreading out atheist theories is seriously damaging the moral foundation in the world.

All the evidence suggests the opposite is true.

But of course your beliefs aren't based on evidence are they?

I ask again: if someone decided, after following the advice you have given to receive spiritual insight, that they were being told by God to commit mass murder how would you convince them they were wrong? Would you even try to convince them they were wrong?

 

[Sideroxylon]

That's a very strange attitude for someone who claims to sit on university boards. Could you tell us which universities? In what capacity? You claimed to have students in another thread, so what subject do you teach?

I'm betting that it's not theology. That department has no truck for such thinking.

 

[Pixel42]

It might take time. It can be as short as sitting quietly in front of a beautiful lake in the afternoon, stopping your incessant reasoning machine, listen to the natural things happening around and letting your Inner make you Feel what is it all about.

You do understand that atheists and sceptics can get the same joy and experience the same wonder as you do? They just don't use such experiences as excuses to jump to totally unsupported conclusions that they'd like to be true.

 

[Agatha]

My lawyer wife, who deals with penal justice, frequently meets dangerous criminals and visit regularly several prisons to interview inmates.

She tells me it is mostly invariable those interns have no sense of spirituality, have no faith and reject any notion of God, LAD, or moral rectitude.

Which is strange, as the countries with the highest populations of theists tend to have the higher crime rates, and the rates of theists in prisons tends to be higher than the rate of theists in the general population.

Others have a pathological deformation of spiritual concepts, same kind of deformations skeptic critics have on their rejected notions of God, LAD and Spirit. I would say their understanding of spirituality is either deformed or totally inaccurate.

I participate in several university boards where it is discussed the immoral aspects of spiritual skepticism and atheism because the general population requires strong faith in spiritual justice.

We strongly believe the moral destruction attempted by spreading out atheist theories is seriously damaging the moral foundation in the world.

Really? You believe that atheists are immoral? That is a remarkably insulting thing to say. Not believing in any gods does not make a person immoral.

I must insist I do not resent the individual rights to be a skeptic and to reject all beliefs, although it is impossible. What I do claim is: Spiritual subjects, faith and religion should be avoided as subjects for public skeptic spreading.

The social implications are invariable avoided by those supporting a strong skeptical position without consideration to side effects.

Atheism and scepticism is not about having no beliefs, it is simply requiring evidence before one believes something.

Perhaps you should open a thread in the Religion and Philosophy sub-forum regarding the 'side effects' that you claim would result if more people were sceptics and/or atheists (the two things are not identical), as further discussion of that aspect in this thread will derail the thread even more than it is already.

 

[deaman]

Hey! Is this trolling and ranting? I don't know the exact meaning of the words!

but Deaman; you could write some nice Sunday morning TV scripts, for those programs where they put prerecorded laughter!!!!

I could even hear the Heavenly Father's loud deep voice, with echo and every other audio special FX!

I don't understand. Are you saying God has it wrong? Or, are you saying I have it wrong for believing?

Are you going against what the Holy Spirit has uttered to me?

 

[pakeha]

...
We strongly believe the moral destruction attempted by spreading out atheist theories is seriously damaging the moral foundation in the world.

I must insist I do not resent the individual rights to be a skeptic and to reject all beliefs, although it is impossible. What I do claim is: Spiritual subjects, faith and religion should be avoided as subjects for public skeptic spreading.

The social implications are invariable avoided by those supporting a strong skeptical position without consideration to side effects.

Mike, do you have any idea how wrong that is?
And on so many levels?

 

[Pixel42]

Mike, do you have any idea how wrong that is?
And on so many levels?

Of course if you indoctrinate people into believing that the only reason to behave morally is because God will punish them if they don't, then when they stop believing in God they will no longer have a reason to behave morally.

The solution, of course, is to not indoctrinate people into believing such nonsense in the first place. There are plenty of much better reasons to behave morally.

 

[tsig]

Hey! Are you always looking for something to "believe"?

As I clearly implied: LAD is something cannot be discussed. It can only be talked about, but demanding or offering "proof" shows a lack of comprehension to the problem.

I think the worst mental attitude is asking: "Give me a proof so I can believe"...

Believing means accepting a fact without proof.
Once you have a clear proof you don't believe on it. You know it.

There are proofs which are only personal. Read my posts above, not just come in and grab the tail of the discussion.

Hi Mike, you owe me $100 dollars this is a fact.

 

[xterra]

After this from Mike,

[...]I participate in several university boards where it is discussed the immoral aspects of spiritual skepticism and atheism because the general population requires strong faith in spiritual justice.

We strongly believe the moral destruction attempted by spreading out atheist theories is seriously damaging the moral foundation in the world.

I must insist I do not resent the individual rights to be a skeptic and to reject all beliefs, although it is impossible. What I do claim is: Spiritual subjects, faith and religion should be avoided as subjects for public skeptic spreading.

Agatha responded:

Really? You believe that atheists are immoral? That is a remarkably insulting thing to say. Not believing in any gods does not make a person immoral.

Atheism and scepticism is not about having no beliefs, it is simply requiring evidence before one believes something.

Mike, I posted this in another thread on this forum. It might help you understand why Agatha believes you have insulted those of us who are atheists. I agree with her, by the way.

A person who does not lie, cheat, steal, murder, etc, because of a belief that doing those things will bring supernatural punishment and not doing them will bring supernatural reward is not being moral. That person is acting only out of self-interest.

Only the person who doesn't cheat, steal, murder, etc, because of a belief that these things are wrong in and of themselves, and who does not believe in a Supernatural Power*, is being moral.

This seems to me to be so self-evident that it almost need not be said, but apparently this is not the case.

The original post can be found here:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=9007263#post9007263

xterra

 

[Robin1]

And what is with the thinly veiled inference that those who do not believe as you are not up to par, not worthy, close-minded.....

Does this humility come about with your secret personal knowledge that can't be written or described in any way?

I spoke to God this morning and I said:

Heavenly Father, in the name of Jesus Christ, by the power of the Holy Spirit is MikeAparicio correct in his statements? Then, Heavenly Father told me, by the power of The Holy Spirit, "No Son, MikeAparicio is incorrect, and is misrepresenting me in an awful way. He is totally misrepresenting my love and care."

Easter Sunday and I've had one too many "egg" nogs!
Meg , pick up your million.
My point? Good Lord, anything ever written by a human could be wrong. Human = fallible. Common sense. Right? What feels right to you? That's what counts. I know God is a loving God and all He cares about is us being loving to one another...and ourselves. How do I know? I trust my gut. Anything less, I know is wrong...no matter what I read. Perhaps, therein lies the challenge. For you. Individually . To see Truth or not. Just because I don't agree with everything in the Bible does NOT mean God is not real. Doesn't feel right, does it? Trust your gut. Trust God. And when I am really, really , really old, I look forward to hangin' out in Heaven with all the atheists, gays, transgenders , Catholics, Muslims, Jews etc. etc. who lived their lives being kind. Because being kind, is what I believe matters most...here and now..and to God...forevermore.

 

[kerikiwi]

I trust my gut. Anything less, I know is wrong...no matter what I read. Perhaps, therein lies the challenge. For you. Individually . To see Truth or not.

I prefer to think with my brain.
But you think with your gut: fair enough, but what is 'less' than thinking with your gut?
And it certainly is a challenge to see the truth(no capitalisation required) with no evidence and no facts, just what you feel in your gut.

 

[Robin1]

I prefer to think with my brain.
But you think with your gut: fair enough, but what is 'less' than thinking with your gut?
And it certainly is a challenge to see the truth(no capitalisation required) with no evidence and no facts, just what you feel in your gut.

Kerikiwi, thinking with your gut does not mean your brain is not involved. It means, consider both...your brain and your gut. Infinite possibilities.

 

[kerikiwi]

Kerikiwi, thinking with your gut does not mean your brain is not involved. It means, consider both...your brain and your gut. Infinite possibilities.

The gut contains no brain cells: it does not think.
There may well be a great many possibilites, but not all of them are true.

 

[Robin1]

The gut contains no brain cells: it does not think.
There may well be a great many possibilites, but not all of them are true.

Open your mind, kerikiwi.

 

[kerikiwi]

Open your mind, kerikiwi.

How does failing to think indicate an open mind?
That's just silly.

 

[Robin1]

An open mind ...means consider it all...and weigh it all.

 

[wasapi]

Easter Sunday and I've had one too many "egg" nogs!
Meg , pick up your million.
My point? Good Lord, anything ever written by a human could be wrong. Human = fallible. Common sense. Right? What feels right to you? That's what counts. I know God is a loving God and all He cares about is us being loving to one another...and ourselves. How do I know? I trust my gut. Anything less, I know is wrong...no matter what I read. Perhaps, therein lies the challenge. For you. Individually . To see Truth or not. Just because I don't agree with everything in the Bible does NOT mean God is not real. Doesn't feel right, does it? Trust your gut. Trust God. And when I am really, really , really old, I look forward to hangin' out in Heaven with all the atheists, gays, transgenders , Catholics, Muslims, Jews etc. etc. who lived their lives being kind. Because being kind, is what I believe matters most...here and now..and to God...forevermore.

In making your "point", it sounds like you are giving those of us who aren't enlightened, either advice or a lecture. It is possible to give your opinion and not be so condecending.

 

[John Jones]

"I try not to think with my guts." -Carl Sagan.

 

[kerikiwi]

An open mind ...means consider it all...and weigh it all.

I know that. Thinking with your gut fails