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Where do Medical Schools Procure Cadavers?

KFCA

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Jul 18, 2004
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First off, I should say that I worked for a probate attorney for a couple of decades & saw a upwards a thousand Wills during my tenure, but I can't recall a single instance where a whole body was directed to "science" by its owner. And we have a prominent medical school or two in the immediate area.

So do they, both historically & currently, tend to come from "Skid Row" or something? Is a particular "profile" preferred? What would constitute a particularly "good specimen"?
 
I dont know how it works in the UK, but in the US most states have a willed donor program.

In my state of Maryland, we have a Maryland State Anatomy Board. The Anatomy Board runs the willed donor program. Most laypersons get confused between donating your body to science and organ donation. They are entirely separate programs.

Anyways, how it works is you sign some forms and then when you die, your doctor/caretaker notifies the state anatomy board. The anatomy board sends drivers with trucks out all over the state to pick up people who have died. They bring the bodies back to the anatomy lab where they are kept in cold storage.

Medical schools contract with the state anatomy board for access to the bodies. The Maryland state anatomy board supplies cadavers for 4 medical schools: Hopkins, Univ of Maryland, Georgetown Univ, and USUHS (military med school in Washington DC).

I'm not sure how much the medical schools pay for the bodies, but I do collect specimens from the lab. In addition to being used for anatomy classes at med schools, cadavers are also used by research scientists. In my lab, we acquire specimens from the anatomy board all the time. We pay $100 for prostates, $500 for an intact brain, etc. We go to the lab to surgically extract the specimens ourselves.

After a cadaver is "used up" the remains are cremated. For the medical school cadavers, most schools have some kind of ceremony where the med students and the medical school faculty bring together the families of the deceased and show their appreciation for their loved ones decision to donate their body.

I know that in earlier times there were a lot of shady dealings between medical schools and "body snatchers" who would dig up corpses from graveyards and then sell the bodies to unscrupulous medical school administrators. I believe this was common practice in both Europe and the US up to the early 1900s.

In Maryland, if no family members claim the body of a deceased individual for a certain number of days, then the state has the authority to turn that body over to the anatomy board.
 
KFCA said:
Is a particular "profile" preferred? What would constitute a particularly "good specimen"?

Actually the best possible scenario for a medical school is that you have a variety of different body types and disease states so that the students can get appreciation for both normal and abnormal findings. We had several cadavers that had pacemakers, neural implants, various surgeries (one had gastric bypass), etc. The way it usually works is that you have several dozen cadavers in a large room with groups of 3 or4 students dissecting each cadaver. Then when another group would find an anomaly or something interesting about their cadaver, we would all rotate over to their cadaver to get a close up look. One thing you remember about anatomy class is that the anatomy atlas/book is just a general guide (individual morphology can look quite different from the neat diagrams).

We had 40 cadavers for our medical school class, and we got to see widely variant pathologies as well as plenty of "normal" specimens.

That being said, in general thin bodies are preferable simply because its easier to manipulate the limbs and you dont have to cut thru so much fat tissue to get to the musculature and organs.
 
I heard about this book when it came out a year or two ago. I haven't yet worked up the stomach to reading it, though it sounds fascinating. I'm 90% sure it will cover the question you ask along the way to talking about the many other ways cadavers have been used in science.
 
HopkinsMedStudent said:
II know that in earlier times there were a lot of shady dealings between medical schools and "body snatchers" who would dig up corpses from graveyards and then sell the bodies to unscrupulous medical school administrators. I believe this was common practice in both Europe and the US up to the early 1900s.

It was more common during the late 18th and early to mid 19th centuries. Cadavers were difficult to procure, mostly coming about from John Doe's who died in the hospitals. Criminals who were hung from the gallows were up for grabs if their friends or families didn't claim them, and there are numerous accounts of fights between claimants of a criminal's body and the doctor's assistant.

Lack of refrigeration caused problems, so fresh cadavers were always sought. In the 1700's, a practice called 'Burking' (named after the murderer William Burke) came about where an assailant would murder somebody and sell their body for about 13 guineas to an anatomist. This may have been less common than thought, but was considered a serious problem. Grave robbing was also an issue, however due to the Napoleonic wars there was a need for practice cadavers for medical students the market increased. Famous surgeon Astely Cooper (fastest surgeon of all time -- could whip off your leg in minutes!) was rumoured to have purchased bodies from ghouls.

The 1832 Anatomy Act (UK) was passed to address the concern people had for the continuing unethical sale of dead bodies.

...public opinion meant that something had to be done and the outcome was the 1832 Anatomy Act which was a key issue in the election of 1832. A key figure behind this was Jeremy Bentham, founder of University College London. His idea was essentially that anyone applying to a hospital for treatment was in effect giving permission for the use of their body, in the event of a poor result, being available for dissection, followed by Christian burial. Although forgoing a Christian burial Bentham was publicly dissected at University College in 1828. There is a sub text to this. Anyone applying to a hospital for treatment meant, in effect the poor who could not afford to pay a doctor. Hospital also meant workhouse. After much argument with Peel, the Prime Minister and political manoeuvring designed so that the death rates in the workhouse should not be made public the bill became law. The situation was now this: the bodies of those maintained by the state (i.e. in Workhouses) if not claimed by relatives (for burial at their expense) became the property of the Anatomist. The fate of these bodies had become, and still is, anatomical examination - not dissection. Administration was by an Inspector of Anatomy, working for the Home Office. Unsurprisingly the residents of workhouses, unconsulted, were not happy with the act, but powerless to do much about it. Many evaded examination by signing a declaration that they did not wish to be dissected: the supply from workhouses was unexpectedly low: there were riots: there was scandal, maladministration and indecency and plain mistakes. Burial services and coffins were often rudimentary. Burial clubs became common - like a Christmas Club - pay so much a week for your funeral. Just before World War 1 ten percent of the income of women in Lambeth was set aside for 'Industrial insurance'. There is still a dread amongst the older generation of a 'pauper's funeral' The only change to the act, however, was in response to repeated failure of the anatomists to bury remains within the stipulated period: the period was extended in 1871.

Introductory Anatomy

Sorry if this seems like a derail -- it just happens to be something of an interest of mine. Macabre, ain't it?

Athon
 
Oh, it was so much simpler at vet school....

Except, a pony belonging to one of my classmates got out and was killed on the road while we were in our anatomy year. She donated the body to the class. It was hung up in the dissecting lab for a whole term. I couldn't have coped with that!

Rolfe.
 
I did a post-doc in a human anatomy department in the UK. My lab was opposite the cold room and preparation area. Cadavers were procured throughout the year and it was my understanding that the people had offered to donate their bodies for medical research.

I got quite a shock one evening to find an elderly lady "sleeping" in the cold room.

The cadavers usually got prepared as soon as they arrived but she arrived too late in the day.
 
rppa said:
I heard about this book when it came out a year or two ago. I haven't yet worked up the stomach to reading it, though it sounds fascinating. I'm 90% sure it will cover the question you ask along the way to talking about the many other ways cadavers have been used in science.

YES!!! Stiff: The Curious Lives of Human Cadavers is a great read! And it will not turn your stomach, and it is quite amusing in parts. Okay, the first chapter on what the plastic surgeons practice on in a conference... well, that's a bit icky. But not horribly.

As I recall from the book, some families use the "will to science" to avoid some funeral expenses. I may be wrong (library book).
 
Hey, did anyone else watch that dissection series on C4 last month? "Anatomy for Beginners" or something. With the mad German professor and a slightly more sane English pathologist and a real cute live model called Dennis?

The audience for the recordings was reported to be "anatomy students and body donors". Yikes! But didn't they fill a museum with exhibits a year or two ago, and have people lining up to be a part of it all post mortem as it were?

Rolfe.
 
Re: Re: Where do Medical Schools Procure Cadavers?

HopkinsMedStudent said:
That being said, in general thin bodies are preferable simply because its easier to manipulate the limbs and you dont have to cut thru so much fat tissue to get to the musculature and organs.
One of my dad's colleagues died last year and she inquired about donating her body to science beforehand as she had been given only a few months to live. She was told they had a weight limit and she was over it; she was obese. The last few weeks of her life she worked very hard dieting and exercising to get her weight into the acceptible range. Given how difficult it is for many people to lose weight, I was amazed at how she devoted herself to that in the last days of her life. She really thought she could make a positive difference by helping train doctors; she was a nursing professor.

I was secretly hoping someone would slip a note into her so the med students that got to use her body would know how much effort she put into being able to donate herself.
 
It was Gunther von Hagen the German doctor who did the Anatomy for Beginners. A couple of years ago he did the Bodyworlds exhibition in London and it was at the same time that there was all that controversy about his televised autopsy. It was however shown on Channel 4, but at 1 am though.

I think Bodyworlds is still going strong and is in Chicago in the States at present.
 
I'm in the UK, and want to donate my body to my nearest medical school when I no longer have any use for it. With a bit of Googling I found this web page that describes how to go about it:

http://www.hta.gov.uk/bodyorganandtissuedonation/howtodonateyourbody.cfm

The London Anatomy Office is responsible for donated bodies where I live. I phoned them and they are posting me an information pack.
 
I did it (along with a couple of friends) a few years back; the father of one of them had been in hospital and reckoned the interns needed the practice. In Ireland if you ask any of the teaching hospitals they'll walk you through the process.

Oddly I was looking at an antique "cemetery gun" for a friend last weekend...
 
...here's[/url] a gorgeous little letter from the Medici Archive about scoring cadavers in secret for an anatomy class of Andreas Vesalius'.

Page not found.

During this period Michelangelo was also dissecting for his art.
 
First off, I should say that I worked for a probate attorney for a couple of decades & saw a upwards a thousand Wills during my tenure, but I can't recall a single instance where a whole body was directed to "science" by its owner. And we have a prominent medical school or two in the immediate area.

So do they, both historically & currently, tend to come from "Skid Row" or something? Is a particular "profile" preferred? What would constitute a particularly "good specimen"?

Well you know one instance now. My will is burial if science/university refuse my body, otherwise they are going to get it. You also need to speak with your local medicine university before.
 
First off, I should say that I worked for a probate attorney for a couple of decades & saw a upwards a thousand Wills during my tenure, but I can't recall a single instance where a whole body was directed to "science" by its owner. And we have a prominent medical school or two in the immediate area.

So do they, both historically & currently, tend to come from "Skid Row" or something? Is a particular "profile" preferred? What would constitute a particularly "good specimen"?

They pay grave robbers to dig them up. Back in 2005, it was probably different.
 
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Back in the 60's I knew a retired pediatrician who had had a checkered career in academic work, and when he discovered he was dying of cancer, he willed his body to a medical school. He joked, "I've taught at Johns Hopkins and Boston, and now I get to teach at Yale."
 

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