Continuation: Discussion of the George Zimmerman case

[Rare Truth]

3. People can make up stuff about Duane Allman, get called out on it, then ignore it.

That was one hell of a smackdown. One of Wildcat's most memorable posts!

Wonder why he doesn't acknowledge it?

Hmmm. :think:

 

[AlBell]

I love that. Zimmerman supporters:

"He had black eyes! Look at him!"

(Can't see black eyes.)

"Well, the PA said black eyes!"

(Still can't see black eyes.)

"Well, they take a few days to develop!"

How do black eyes or lack thereof tie into TM going for GZ's gun?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Ok! Now, do we have a picture where his black eyes have formed? Do we have a picture of those black eyes a couple of days apart to show it was consistent? If so, I'll happily admit I am wrong.

#EDIT: For that matter, how does the medical professional diagnose black eyes that haven't formed yet?

I'm seriously trying to understand what the problem is here.

You've been informed that the pictures being shown were taken that evening, before the black eyes usually are formed.

He went to the Dr. office the next day, where the PA specifically wrote she talked to him abou the swelling and black eyes.

Sgt Baker linked to the video that show the black eyes.

What is it you still need ?

 

[phonebook]

Do you deny the word you just posted was suspected.

Did you ignore all those other words I just posted? - "An X-ray of the nose is not usually needed or helpful if only a broken nose is suspected."

Those other words basically explained why GZ didn't need to go to the ENT. GZ further relays what the PA told him about this in his walk-through. But as we see above, any chance (as minute as it may be) to totally dismiss what was shared with you (if it happens to favor GZ's story) will be totally consumed.

Too bad GZ wasn't smart enough to get his truly for real true brokee shnowzer documented.

He did get it documented. Did you not see the diagnosis?

"George Refused"

I understand that it's your desire to attach an element of guilt to that, yet that doesn't change the fact that he was diagnosed with a "broken nose", by someone qualified to do so.

Treatment, if needed, usually is done within 7 to 14 days of breaking your nose. Most broken noses do not require treatment other than controlling pain and other symptoms.

http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/broken-nose-nasal-fracture-topic-overview

Did GZ have insurance? Perhaps paying out-of-pocket for an ENT to tell him the exact same thing his doctor already did doesn't exactly make financial sense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_2NeMrGCvg&t=16m59s

"There's nothing they could do right now", until the swelling went down.

 

[Rare Truth]

The PA did not confirm a broken nose, no matter how many times you keep trying to pretend she did.

Even IF there was a closed fracture, which the PA would not be able to determine without an X-ray was there, it was minute, and not in any way consistent with being punched to the head and face over and over. as GZ describes. Not even a split lip. Not even an ice pack.

Tell it to someone who has never been in a fight before, or had kids, or you know, lived.

We'll see if this face

is one the jury buys as being brutally beaten. THEY will be the ones to decide if his story matches his face.

 

[Mister Earl]

I'm seriously trying to understand what the problem is here.

You've been informed that the pictures being shown were taken that evening, before the black eyes usually are formed.

He went to the Dr. office the next day, where the PA specifically wrote she talked to him abou the swelling and black eyes.

Sgt Baker linked to the video that show the black eyes.

What is it you still need ?

Basically, something that's distinguishable from the dark shading I get under my own eyes due to lack of sleep. I'm not saying it's impossible those are in fact black eyes, I'm just really skeptical, given how slight his injuries were.

 

[phonebook]

We'll see if this face


[qimg]http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y221/who007/Neighborhood-Watch-George-Zimmerman.jpg[/qimg]

is one the jury buys as being brutally beaten. THEY will be the ones to decide if his story matches his face.

So they're going to look at the post-EMT treatment photo and not this one? I somehow doubt that:

 

[Mister Earl]

Looks like a guy who got whanged in the nose. Not one who had his head smashed into the concrete thirty times. And definitely doesn't look like a guy who had reason to escalate to lethal force.

My opinion, of course.

 

[Unabogie]

In this picture, he looks swollen. But an hour later at the police state, all of the swelling has gone away. But the next day, it's back, and shows black eyes? That's some amazing swelling!

Of course we must discount the idea that this picture was taken with a camera phone and had a fisheye effect, while the ones taken at the SPD station are much more accurate. Nope, we must take this one as showing the utmost swelling and ignore the miraculous healing that takes place an hour later.

 

[12AX7]

The miraculous healing abilities of George Zimmerman. The Catholic Church needs to look into this.

 

[12AX7]

How do black eyes or lack thereof tie into TM going for GZ's gun?

Evidence that Trayvon went for George's gun?

Oh that's right, we only have the word* of the guy who shot an unarmed teenager. An unarmed teenager that was on top of him beating him terribly just moments before "going for" George's gun, yet George comes out looking no worse for wear. Of course Trayvon "went for George's gun"; that's the "I was in fear for my life" moment that can possibly get him off the hook (because the savage beating angle ain't cutting it) for a conviction.


*George has so many inconsistencies, how and why are we to believe that detail?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Basically, something that's distinguishable from the dark shading I get under my own eyes due to lack of sleep. I'm not saying it's impossible those are in fact black eyes, I'm just really skeptical, given how slight his injuries were.

I think you are being beyond skeptical.

GZ did not pose for any pictures in the following days that I have seen published. If you don't see that he has black eyes in any of the videos, and don't believe the PA, then I think you have your answer.

I used to doubt the state was going to play this game of "likely" boken nose, but after reading that sarcastic non-response from BDLR, I don't know now.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Looks like a guy who got whanged in the nose. Not one who had his head smashed into the concrete thirty times. And definitely doesn't look like a guy who had reason to escalate to lethal force.

My opinion, of course.

No one, including GZ, claimed that happened. No wonder you have a hard time believing things.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Evidence that Trayvon went for George's gun?

Oh that's right, we only have the word* of the guy who shot an unarmed teenager. An unarmed teenager that was on top of him beating him terribly just moments before "going for" George's gun, yet George comes out looking no worse for wear. Of course Trayvon "went for George's gun"; that's the "I was in fear for my life" moment that can possibly get him off the hook (because the savage beating angle ain't cutting it) for a conviction.


*George has so many inconsistencies, how and why are we to believe that detail?

You first on the evidence issue:

I can't honestly say GZ claimed he was hit 25-30 times. Can you ? Cite ?
From what ? Please provide evidence TM had to defend himself from anything or anyone.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

In this picture, he looks swollen. But an hour later at the hospital, all of the swelling has gone away. But the next day, it's back, and shows black eyes? That's some amazing swelling!

Of course we must discount the idea that this picture was taken with a camera phone and had a fisheye effect, while the ones taken at the SPD station are much more accurate. Nope, we must take this one as showing the utmost swelling and ignore the miraculous healing that takes place an hour later.

Of course you have evidence of this, right ?

 

[Mumbles]

And round and round we go.


<snipped from the Interview of GZ by Serino and Singleton>

CS: Okay.Another thing too as far as 25 and 30 punches, I’ve consulted with a lot of people, not quite consistent with your injuries. -----
CS: That’s why we’re here today. Once again, these can be interpreted as capillary-type cuts or whatever, lacerations, uh, not really, um, coinciding with being slammed hard into the ground. Okay? That’s skull fractures is you happen with that.
-----
GZ: Every time he punched my nose, it just…
CS: How many times, okay, how many times you get punched in the nose? A couple, few?
GZ: I don’t know, I don’t remember.
CS: Okay, you never got a chance to hit him, you have no defense wounds here, um, any bruising on your body at all?
GZ: Ah, no.
-----
CS: Once again, these are your defensive wounds, which are essentially non-existent, I’m looking for bruising and scrapings and I don’t see, I mean, you fared pretty well.

To be honest, I can't make too much of the highlighted part. I agree that it hardly looks like he had his head repeatedly bashed into concrete, and it certainly doesn't sound like that's what happened, since he was, according to his own statement, up and trying to restrain Martin less than a minute later. But cops can, and do, freely lie when they're interrogating suspects, so it's not necessarily true that Serino had actually consulted with anyone other than the other cops on the case.

 

[Mister Earl]

I think you are being beyond skeptical.

I respectfully disagree. I feel that my level of scrutiny is warranted.

GZ did not pose for any pictures in the following days that I have seen published. If you don't see that he has black eyes in any of the videos, and don't believe the PA, then I think you have your answer.

You don't understand why I could be skeptical? What blackness he has had under his eyes in any picture is pretty much indestinguishable from the same as lost sleep. I think asking for additional verification that it wasn't a sleep related issue is sensible. And given that black eyes take a day or so to develop, how was anyone able to diagnose black eyes the night of?

I used to doubt the state was going to play this game of "likely" boken nose, but after reading that sarcastic non-response from BDLR, I don't know now.

Why not? Zimemrman has consistently embellished his injuries. Do you really think slamming someone's HEAD into concrete thirty times would only result in superficial injuries? Any skull fractures? Why not?

I think we all have every reason to be skeptical in this case. Not just skeptical of zimmerman, but skeptical about the whole darned thing.

#EDIT: Ok, not sure where I came up with the thirty times bit. So what was zimmerman's claims regarding the head smashing? Refresh my memory?

#EDIT2: Skeptical of the fish eye lens hypothesis as well. I don't think a fish eye lens would be that selective.

 

[WildCat]

3. People can make up stuff about Duane Allman, get called out on it, then ignore it.

I didn't make it up, I confused it with his bandmate Berry Oakley, who died in almost the same spot in another motorcycle accident shortly after:

On November 11, 1972, Oakley was involved in a motorcycle accident in Macon, Georgia, just three blocks from where Duane Allman had his fatal motorcycle accident the year before. Oakley was driving around a sharp right bend of the road on Napier Avenue at Inverness when he crossed the line and collided at an angle with a city bus making the bend from the opposite direction. After striking the front and then the back of the bus, Oakley was thrown from his bike, just as Allman had been, and struck his head. Oakley said he was okay after the accident, declined medical treatment, and caught a ride home. Three hours later, he was rushed to the hospital, delirious and in pain, and died of cerebral swelling caused by a fractured skull.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berry_Oakley

Sorry for my confusion, but the point stands - you can suffer a fatal skull fracture and not even realize anything major is wrong.

 

[WildCat]

That was one hell of a smackdown. One of Wildcat's most memorable posts!

Wonder why he doesn't acknowledge it?

Hmmm. :think:

Don't you wish!

Now if we could just figure out what the mysterious red substance is that flows from a wound, or get the medical profession to learn how to diagnose a fractured nose to the satisfaction of anonymous internet posters! Kind of like how all the experts are wrong with regard to how the World Trade Center collapsed according to 9/11 truthers.

 

[12AX7]

You first on the evidence issue:

​

Zimmerman mentioned the 25-30 punches at some point, because he got called out on it.

And round and round we go.


<snipped from the Interview of GZ by Serino and Singleton>

CS: Okay.Another thing too as far as 25 and 30 punches, I’ve consulted with a lot of people, not quite consistent with your injuries. -----
CS: That’s why we’re here today. Once again, these can be interpreted as capillary-type cuts or whatever, lacerations, uh, not really, um, coinciding with being slammed hard into the ground. Okay? That’s skull fractures is you happen with that.
-----
GZ: Every time he punched my nose, it just…
CS: How many times, okay, how many times you get punched in the nose? A couple, few?
GZ: I don’t know, I don’t remember.
CS: Okay, you never got a chance to hit him, you have no defense wounds here, um, any bruising on your body at all?
GZ: Ah, no.
-----
CS: Once again, these are your defensive wounds, which are essentially non-existent, I’m looking for bruising and scrapings and I don’t see, I mean, you fared pretty well.