Founder of Sea Shepherd Arrested in Germany

[applecorped]

Whales are sacrosanct because................

 

[Wildy]

The French Secret Service is good at that.

(which also goes to show that you can blow up a ship (a) without deaths (the photographer who died was not on board at the time but went back to try salvage his equipment), and (b) with enough damage the ship can't be salvaged.

Something tells me that after what the French did it'd be a hell of a lot harder to do that nowadays. I'd hazard a guess that both Sea Shepherd and the Japanese whalers both have pretty good security on and around their boats when they are in port.

Whales are sacrosanct because................

They're big. And we nearly killed them all before so that means we can never kill them again, not matter how sustainably we do it, unless you're an indigenous people that aren't Norwegian where you are allowed to kill whales regardless of their conservation status because of... uhh... err...

 

[tsig]

"At the dock" was implying there would be nobody on it.

And it stems from their hatred of the natural world. Someone has to defend it. I only wish I had a 10th of the seeds that these people have - and no bills to pay.

How do you know "they" hate the natural world, in fact, "they" are part of the natural world unless you want to claim humanity is special.

Seems what you really want is to live out a fantasy of being a bold sea raider.

You're hating a bogey man you've constructed in your mind, I'm sure the seamen who man these ships are just ordinary humans not some mindless monsters.

 

[Ryokan]

it's a floating slaugherhouse.

So people who work at a slaughterhouse hates the natural world..

 

[Marcus]

OK..

DRY dock. With nobody on it. Or within 2 miles of it. Tow it out to sea and make it an artificial reef.

Recycle it for Pepsi cans. I don't give a : just get rid of it.




it's a floating slaugherhouse. I can't even imagine the conditions inside that thing... Not a good comparison.

The inside is an efficient, modern factory, all gleaming stainless steel, production lines, state of the art equipment and huge flash freezers. So while the conditions are not bad, they are definitely not the setting for "scientific research".

 

[George 152]

Where does this hatred come from? It's not a pleasant sight.

Since that would be an illegal act you might be in violation of the MA for expressing it.

It's the nonviolence one come to expect of Green Peace

 

[NoahFence]

It's the nonviolence one come to expect of Green Peace

LOL @ Greenpeace.

Reminds me of a Robin Williams stand-up gig where he's making fun of British cops who don't carry guns.
"Stop!"
..."or I'll say stop again!"

 

[Magenta]

Before this the Nisshin stayed technically within the law, even though they abused the heck out of the spirit of it.

I doubt if maritime law allows you to push a ship out of the way if they are occupying space you want for yourself.

I dare say both are at fault under the COLREGS.

Was just reading a bit about the Cod Wars, between Britain and Iceland in the 1970s. There are some similarities with the conflict between Sea Shepherd and the whalers - interference with British trawlers by the Icelandic Coast Guard, prop fouling and ramming - but no reality TV in those days!

 

[Magenta]

Some of you might find this interesting. It's a series of posts about Sea Shepherd on a blog called Information Dissemination (described as "The Intersection of Maritime Strategy and Strategic Communications"). These quotes give some indication of the focus of the posts:

Regardless of what readers may think of them, the Sea Sheperds have demonstrated, albeit clumsily, the requisite tools for a successful IW campaign against a major naval power at sea:

-A kluged together fleet and crews which were proven capable of operating in unforgiving Antarctic waters
-A comprehensive intelligence collection plan including airborne ISR and HUMINT tippers from informants on cruise ships in the Southern Ocean
-Adaptive and innovative tactics, balanced (somewhat) against risk and international opinion
-An effective influence plan which coopted a professional media wing – aka The Discovery Channel
-A charismatic fund raiser: Bob Barker
The model works. Who will copy it next and for what purpose?

the photograph above is fairly remarkable in that a non-state actor has privately assembled a maritime force of ocean-going ships, helicopters, and UAVs, sailed it once again into unforgiving Antarctic waters, and taken a photograph in a formation normally seen only with mainstream navies. Stay tuned.

The posts are tagged "hippies" and "irregular warfare" - not a juxtaposition you see very often...

 

[Sam.I.Am]

I wouldn't characterize the whalers as a "Major naval power". They're commercial fisherman with rudimentary defenses intended for nonlethal results. If the SS tried that kind of crap against an actual (even minor) naval power they would probably be lying at the bottom of the ocean.

As to their use of the Discovery channel (actually Animal Planet, an offshoot of Discovery) all I can say is that the vast majority of the comments I've read have not been kind to the SS at all. People watch it because of the train wreck that is the so called "Crew" of those ships. You even have people who are rooting for the whalers, not because they like whaling but because the SS people are just that unlikeable both in their seamanship and tactics. When SS people thought that the whalers were giving them back a taste of their own medicine and were using a prop fouling device against them they were in the bridge complaining that that was dangerous and they shouldn't be doing that to them. Completely clueless of their own naked hypocrisy.

 

[Magenta]

I wouldn't characterize the whalers as a "Major naval power". They're commercial fisherman with rudimentary defenses intended for nonlethal results. If the SS tried that kind of crap against an actual (even minor) naval power they would probably be lying at the bottom of the ocean.

By "major naval power" I presume the author means Japan, rather than the actual whalers.

As to their use of the Discovery channel (actually Animal Planet, an offshoot of Discovery) all I can say is that the vast majority of the comments I've read have not been kind to the SS at all. People watch it because of the train wreck that is the so called "Crew" of those ships. You even have people who are rooting for the whalers, not because they like whaling but because the SS people are just that unlikeable both in their seamanship and tactics. When SS people thought that the whalers were giving them back a taste of their own medicine and were using a prop fouling device against them they were in the bridge complaining that that was dangerous and they shouldn't be doing that to them. Completely clueless of their own naked hypocrisy.

I haven't seen Whale Wars or looked at the website comments so can't comment on that. Would be interesting to know what donations they get as a result of the show, aside from what they get from the production company.

 

[Sam.I.Am]

By "major naval power" I presume the author means Japan, rather than the actual whalers.

Japan (their maritime forces anyway) hasn't been present in any of these conflicts. It's been 1 factory ship and 3 harpoon ships with fire hoses to keep zodiacs away, netting to keep stuff from being thrown at them and some pointy spikes intended to prevent boarders from sneaking aboard.

I haven't seen Whale Wars or looked at the website comments so can't comment on that. Would be interesting to know what donations they get as a result of the show, aside from what they get from the production company.

Well on that regard I suppose bad publicity is better than no publicity but seriously, they get mocked a whole lot more than they get supporters from what I've seen. I mean even on the Animal Planet forums, where one would expect to see a more favorable audience, there were probably 20 to 1 negative comments about the SS than there were about the whalers.

 

[Magenta]

Japan (their maritime forces anyway) hasn't been present in any of these conflicts. It's been 1 factory ship and 3 harpoon ships with fire hoses to keep zodiacs away, netting to keep stuff from being thrown at them and some pointy spikes intended to prevent boarders from sneaking aboard.

The whole operation is under the auspices of the Japanese government (more particularly Japan Fisheries Agency). In addition to the 4 ships you mention, there is also the Shonan Maru which has "Government of Japan" on its side and Coast Guard personnel on board.

 

[Sam.I.Am]

The whole operation is under the auspices of the Japanese government (more particularly Japan Fisheries Agency). In addition to the 4 ships you mention, there is also the Shonan Maru which has "Government of Japan" on its side and Coast Guard personnel on board.

It's owned by Kyodo Senpaku Kaisha, LTD., not the Japanese government and is not operated by the Japanese government but by the ICR (which is also not a Japanese government entity). Your link doesn't mention any Coast Guard personnel on it but considering that the US also puts USCG representatives aboard some of the larger privately owned fishing vessels or fleets (to ensure compliance with laws regarding what and how much they catch) I'll take your word on it. But that doesn't make it a government owned or operated boat, it just means that they are keeping an eye on what is going on by having a government representative on board.

Simply putting "Government of Japan" on the side does not make it a government ship any more than putting "Research" on the side makes a ship a research ship.

 

[Magenta]

It's owned by Kyodo Senpaku Kaisha, LTD., not the Japanese government and is not operated by the Japanese government but by the ICR (which is also not a Japanese government entity). Your link doesn't mention any Coast Guard personnel on it but considering that the US also puts USCG representatives aboard some of the larger privately owned fishing vessels or fleets (to ensure compliance with laws regarding what and how much they catch) I'll take your word on it. But that doesn't make it a government owned or operated boat, it just means that they are keeping an eye on what is going on by having a government representative on board.

Simply putting "Government of Japan" on the side does not make it a government ship any more than putting "Research" on the side makes a ship a research ship.

I'm not saying the whaling fleet is owned by the Japanese government, but that the whaling operation is directed by the government, specifically the Japan Fisheries Agency which is part of the Ministry of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries. The Fisheries Agency requests the ICR to undertake the "scientific" surveys and ICR in turn contracts the logistics work out to Kyodo Senpaku (which is an amalgamation of about six whaling companies). Jun Morikawa's book Whaling in Japan: Power, Politics and Diplomacy is very good on the politics of Japanese whaling, and the close relationship between JFA, ICR and Kyodo Senpaku.

Re Coast Guard personnel on board the Shonan Maru, in the video of the collision on 25 February where the Bob Barker was sandwiched between the Nisshin Maru and the Sun Laurel, you can hear them on the PA system.

 

[theprestige]

I'm not saying the whaling fleet is owned by the Japanese government, but that the whaling operation is directed by the government, specifically the Japan Fisheries Agency which is part of the Ministry of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries. The Fisheries Agency requests the ICR to undertake the "scientific" surveys and ICR in turn contracts the logistics work out to Kyodo Senpaku (which is an amalgamation of about six whaling companies). Jun Morikawa's book Whaling in Japan: Power, Politics and Diplomacy is very good on the politics of Japanese whaling, and the close relationship between JFA, ICR and Kyodo Senpaku.

Re Coast Guard personnel on board the Shonan Maru, in the video of the collision on 25 February where the Bob Barker was sandwiched between the Nisshin Maru and the Sun Laurel, you can hear them on the PA system.

Which is all well and good, but let's return to the start of this conversation:

Some of you might find this interesting. It's a series of posts about Sea Shepherd on a blog called Information Dissemination (described as "The Intersection of Maritime Strategy and Strategic Communications").

By "major naval power" I presume the author means Japan, rather than the actual whalers.

I think the major flaw in Info Diss's analysis is that Sea Shepherd hasn't actually measured itself against any naval power, major or otherwise.

It's one thing to recognize what Sea Shepherd has accomplished against a few Japanese whaling vessels (which are undoubtedly acting with a certain degree of restraint). It's another thing entirely to extend that accomplishment to mean a demonstrated capability to go toe-to-toe with the Japanese Navy.

That's where I fault the blog's analysis, anyway.

 

[Magenta]

I think the major flaw in Info Diss's analysis is that Sea Shepherd hasn't actually measured itself against any naval power, major or otherwise.

It's one thing to recognize what Sea Shepherd has accomplished against a few Japanese whaling vessels (which are undoubtedly acting with a certain degree of restraint). It's another thing entirely to extend that accomplishment to mean a demonstrated capability to go toe-to-toe with the Japanese Navy.

That's where I fault the blog's analysis, anyway.

The thing is, Sea Shepherd is unlikely to ever see, let alone be confronted by, a Japanese warship in the Southern Ocean. Although Japan has, obviously, the capacity for overwhelming force, they can't use it in this situation. The whaling issue is already a diplomatic and public relations headache for Japan; it would be disastrous for them to send a military force into the Antarctic Treaty area (and a whale sanctuary at that) to protect what countries in the region already regard as illegal behaviour.

The idea of Sea Shepherd ever going "toe-to-toe with the Japanese Navy" in the Southern Ocean is a fantasy.

 

[Sam.I.Am]

And so is the idea that they have ever met up with any "Major Naval Power". It's just another attempt at PR spin from a group that has already said that they have no problems with outright lying.

“If you don’t know an answer, a fact, a statistic, then … make it up on the spot."

Enough said.

 

[Magenta]

And so is the idea that they have ever met up with any "Major Naval Power". It's just another attempt at PR spin from a group that has already said that they have no problems with outright lying.

Eh? The blog posts I quoted from do not come from Sea Shepherd.

 

[theprestige]

Eh? The blog posts I quoted from do not come from Sea Shepherd.

All I'm saying is the blogger's analysis is flawed, as Sea Shepherd hasn't really demonstrated "the requisite tools for a successful IW campaign against a major naval power at sea".