Liberal Fallacies

[SezMe]

You're not paying attention (or you deliberately misrepresent the argument). Extension of the category eligible for spousal benefits is a tax increase. That's all.

I am unaware that the implementation of basic civil rights depends upon whether such implementation would have the side effect of raising taxes.

 

[qayak]

I am unaware that the implementation of basic civil rights depends upon whether such implementation would have the side effect of raising taxes.

Besides, it lowers taxes for some. Basically it more evenly distributes the tax burden.

 

[qayak]

4-If we are kind or tolerant to our enemies, they will be kind and tolerant to us.

4 no

But if you were kind and tolerant you wouldn't have so many enemies.

 

[jimbob]

Has anyone mentioned the naturalistic fallacy yet in conjunction with Malcolm's assertion about gay marriage?

Or mentioned bonbos? Or preying mantises? Maybe the dolphin "rape gangs" - they are very interesting from a game theory point of view and how well some social species can cooperate?

 

[Dancing David]

You're not paying attention (or you deliberately misrepresent the argument). Extension of the category eligible for spousal benefits is a tax increase. That's all.

So? The US system gives tax breaks to all sorts of things that don't really matter and are just asserted to do something helpful.

You just single out one and seem to act like it matters. And you are really bending word here, so the capital gains exclusion from certain taxes is really a tax increase for the rest of us?

 

[Spindrift]

You're not paying attention (or you deliberately misrepresent the argument). Extension of the category eligible for spousal benefits is a tax increase. That's all.

What is the amount of the loss of tax revenue from gay marriage and specifically explain what tax is being increased to make up for that loss?

 

[Malcolm Kirkpatrick]

I am unaware that the implementation of basic civil rights depends upon whether such implementation would have the side effect of raising taxes.

Policies which societies enshrine as "rights" evolve in response to cost/benefit considerations. How do you imagine "rights" originate? You people even more mystical about rights than Libertarians.

 

[elbe]

Policies which societies enshrine as "rights" evolve in response to cost/benefit considerations. How do you imagine "rights" originate? You people even more mystical about rights than Libertarians.

I have a hard time imagining that the people who were in favor of, say, ending slavery were really doing cost/benefit evaluations, as opposed to thinking "do we really want to treat other humans as property?"

But I've found that people who deify the free market tend to believe everything is ruled by it.

 

[Magyar]

Defense of a harem is marriage?

There are animals that are mongamous, there are animals that are harem animals, there are animals that have serial relationships based on different factors, theer are also those that don't particularly semm to care.

Which one exactly is comparable to marriage?

(And do they get a license?)

you forgot to mention the host of animals that have homosexual relationships
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior

 

[Malcolm Kirkpatrick]

What is the amount of the loss of tax revenue from gay marriage and specifically explain what tax is being increased to make up for that loss?

What's your point? What is the comparitive reproductive advantage to a 0.0001% increase in body mass as a function of temperature? Or don't you believe in evolution?

 

[Malcolm Kirkpatrick]

you forgot to mention the host of animals that have homosexual relationships
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior

And some animals eat milkweed (which is poisonous to humans).

 

[Spindrift]

What's your point? What is the comparitive reproductive advantage to a 0.0001% increase in body mass as a function of temperature? Or don't you believe in evolution?

I thought it was your point that allowing gay marriage was going to lead to an increase in YOUR taxes. I'm asking you to show me how that is going to happen.

 

[Malcolm Kirkpatrick]

So? The US system gives tax breaks to all sorts of things that don't really matter and are just asserted to do something helpful.

We agree. We disagree about the specific appliations of this argument.

You just single out one and seem to act like it matters. And you are really bending word here, so the capital gains exclusion from certain taxes is really a tax increase for the rest of us?

That's the implication, given that the State's total command of resources is unaltered (or that valued State services are reduced without a matching increase in non-State services).

 

[Malcolm Kirkpatrick]

I thought it was your point that allowing gay marriage was going to lead to an increase in YOUR taxes. I'm asking you to show me how that is going to happen.

I did. I will pay for spousal medical benefits for homosexual government employees.

 

[Spindrift]

I did. I will pay for spousal medical benefits for homosexual government employees.

No that does not explain how your taxes are going to go up. That says a particular government expenditure will go up. That does not automatically mean taxes will go up. Please tell me exactly what TAX is going to go up.

 

[Dancing David]

And some animals eat milkweed (which is poisonous to humans).

You still have yet toe stablish marriage in the anumals as well.

How much ascelipias do you have to eat for toxicity? And which variety?

 

[Myron Proudfoot]

In 1982, Geraldine Ferraro (D-NY, one time VP candidate) was quoted by AP as, "I tend to think that with more women making policy we would have fewer wars".

So you have one quote, from 32 years ago? That's it?? really??

 

[Malcolm Kirkpatrick]

... a particular government expenditure will go up. That does not automatically mean taxes will go up...

Unless Martians provide resources dedicated to the expanded care and barred from all other uses, it does. "Tax" is all government command of resources.

 

[jimbob]

you forgot to mention the host of animals that have homosexual relationships
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior

Hence my earlier post about Bonobos and even more pertinently, the Naturalistic Fallacy.

Has anyone mentioned the naturalistic fallacy yet in conjunction with Malcolm's assertion about gay marriage?

Or mentioned bonbos? Or preying mantises? Maybe the dolphin "rape gangs" - they are very interesting from a game theory point of view and how well some social species can cooperate?

 

[lomiller]

You said the two make as much sense. Again, speed limits make sense because they serve a valid state interest in public safety. For laws that ban gay marriage to make as much sense, they must serve some valid public state interest.


Oh. . . so we had an unfair tax situation before Prop 8 and DOMA were passed?

That's the position you're arguing?

Apparently it’s wrong to tax people he agrees with and also wrong not to tax people he doesn’t agree with.