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Proof of Life After Death!!

MikeAparicio said:
Don't be surprised Robin! Skepticism is basically doing like an ostrich, sticking the head in the ground, to avoid other's thoughts wile demanding "proof". Supposedly a skeptic does not believe a thing.... But they believe in skepticism as the best state of mind!

Life after death is also dependent on belief. If you believe in it you will live; if you don't you won't!
The subject is beyond proof. The skeptic fundamental mistake is to deny what is impossible to prove. Don't try to change that...
The only thing capable of changing a skeptic is himself... So it is impossible.
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No it isn't, Even more so when the claim involves a flimsy TV conman.

Do you even read what you post? Why would accept anything for which there is no proof for?
 
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A Proof is a Proof ...

meg said:
That's good. Perhaps if she spends a bit of time over in Science, Mathematics, Medicine and Technology and reads a few threads she will learn what words like "evidence" and "proof" really mean.
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Well, being a Canadian, I finally learned what proof is from our
x-Prime Minister Jean Chretien:​


​

 
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MikeAparicio said:
Don't be surprised Robin! Skepticism is basically doing like an ostrich, sticking the head in the ground, to avoid other's thoughts wile demanding "proof". Supposedly a skeptic does not believe a thing.... But they believe in skepticism as the best state of mind!

Life after death is also dependent on belief. If you believe in it you will live; if you don't you won't!
The subject is beyond proof.
The skeptic fundamental mistake is to deny what is impossible to prove. Don't try to change that...
The only thing capable of changing a skeptic is himself... So it is impossible.
Click to expand...

Why would I want to change? I indulge in every sin you can imagine and a lot you can't imagine since I sold my soul to the Devil(pguh).
 
Robin1 said:
For all those seeking the "Truth " about life after death as well as the possibility of communicating with those who have crossed over please read about my experience with psychic medium John Edward. You must ALSO read all the comments to get more details and the full picture. Just google "Proof of life after death Yorktown" or here is the direct link:
yorktown-somers.patch.com/blog.../proof-of-life-after-death
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I don't doubt that strange things happen, and that they can lead us to jump to conclusions, and that one of the conclusions people often jump to when strange things happen is a belief in the afterlife. However the reality of the situation is that even if the experiences involve real and as of yet unexplained phenomenon, it's still a long ways from there to having sufficient reason to believe the cause is an unseen dead person. If possible, try to study the incidents with as much objectivity as possible and consider other possibilities ... even ones that the self-proclaimed skeptics here would also dismiss. You may also find a more receptive audience over at the Paracast forum.
 
ufology said:
I don't doubt that strange things happen, and that they can lead us to jump to conclusions, and that one of the conclusions people often jump to when strange things happen is a belief in the afterlife. However the reality of the situation is that even if the experiences involve real and as of yet unexplained phenomenon, it's still a long ways from there to having sufficient reason to believe the cause is an unseen dead person. If possible, try to study the incidents with as much objectivity as possible and consider other possibilities ... even ones that the self-proclaimed skeptics here would also dismiss. You may also find a more receptive audience over at the Paracast forum.
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Indeed. I'm sure John Edward is really an alien.
 
MikeAparicio said:
Don't be surprised Robin! Skepticism is basically doing like an ostrich, sticking the head in the ground, to avoid other's thoughts wile demanding "proof". Supposedly a skeptic does not believe a thing.... But they believe in skepticism as the best state of mind!

Life after death is also dependent on belief. If you believe in it you will live; if you don't you won't!
The subject is beyond proof.
The skeptic fundamental mistake is to deny what is impossible to prove. Don't try to change that...
The only thing capable of changing a skeptic is himself... So it is impossible.
Click to expand...

Fantastic.
If there was anything this thread needed, it was more ranting!
 
MikeAparicio said:
Don't be surprised Robin! Skepticism is basically doing like an ostrich, sticking the head in the ground, to avoid other's thoughts wile demanding "proof". Supposedly a skeptic does not believe a thing.... But they believe in skepticism as the best state of mind!
Click to expand...
A sceptic, of course, would say that it's those with unsupported beliefs who are the ostriches sticking their heads in the grounds, refusing to listen to reason.

The skeptic fundamental mistake is to deny what is impossible to prove. Don't try to change that...
The only thing capable of changing a skeptic is himself... So it is impossible.
Click to expand...
A skeptic's mind can be changed by evidence and reasoned argument. Assertions that are not supported by evidence and reasoned argument are assumed to be most likely false, until and unless evidence and reasoned argument are presented for them.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=9090059#post9090059

MikeAparicio said:
I am cancelling my subscription to JREF, to avoid more confrontation, and the consequent loss of my moral values, trust and convictions.

I just finish saying: Anyone wanting to continue or to develop a remote friendship can find me at Facebook as MikeAparicio. I will be delighted to meet someone there!

Good bye to all, now!
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Glad you changed your mind. Perhaps you could try constructing a reasoned argument this time, rather than just posting rants and sarcasm? You'll probably find the subsequent discussion less frustrating.
 
MikeAparicio said:
Don't be surprised Robin! Skepticism is basically doing like an ostrich, sticking the head in the ground, to avoid other's thoughts wile demanding "proof". Supposedly a skeptic does not believe a thing.... But they believe in skepticism as the best state of mind!
Click to expand...

So where do you draw the line? Do you believe everything you read on the internet? I've no doubt that Robin is a very likeable person not prone to lying but does that make her belief that John Edward has proved life after death credible? If he really can tell people minute details of their life without cheating why does he get so much wrong? Why doesn't he let researchers do tests on him? Why are the spirits conspiring with him to make him very rich but my anscesters won't give today's lottery numbers?
 
Pixel42 said:
A sceptic, of course, would say that it's those with unsupported beliefs who are the ostriches sticking their heads in the grounds, refusing to listen to reason.


A skeptic's mind can be changed by evidence and reasoned argument. Assertions that are not supported by evidence and reasoned argument are assumed to be most likely false, until and unless evidence and reasoned argument are presented for them.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=9090059#post9090059



Glad you changed your mind. Perhaps you could try constructing a reasoned argument this time, rather than just posting rants and sarcasm? You'll probably find the subsequent discussion less frustrating.
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Hey Pixie!
I did not change my mind. Mod . didn't want me to leave because I Add a little, little balance to a totally radical forum!
So like I am so much wanted I will enjoy "ranting" as much as possible...:cool:
When you say 'skeptic', what kind of breed are you pointing at?
The Bouncers, denial fans, supra-sapiens, ultra- arrogant, or all-teachers?

Can you point to a single post ever , where a skeptic has shown a change of mind?
I would be less skeptic about skeptics if you can...
 
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MikeAparicio said:
Can you point to a single post ever , where a skeptic has shown a change of mind?
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link

DOC, I know that this might make you feel bad, but I think that you should know. This thread, more than anything else, caused me to lose my faith in God. I'm not kidding, and I'm not lying. If you PM me, I can point you to a years-long history of posts elsewhere where I self-identify as Christian. I'm going to stop doing that now, mostly because of you. I just thought that you should know.
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MikeAparicio said:
Can you point to a single post ever , where a skeptic has shown a change of mind?
I would be less skeptic about skeptics if you can...
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Sceptics accept correction all the time. Here's a post where I did so only a few hours ago.

Nearly all sceptics started off believing things which they changed their minds about after they learned how to think critically - I, for example, believed in the paranormal in my teens and into my twenties - but I suspect that's not what you're asking for.

A sceptic is someone who requires evidence to accept claims, and assumes the null hypothesis in its absence. Anyone who changes their mind about accepting a claim in the continued absence of such evidence is, by definition, not a sceptic. You'll find plenty of examples of sceptics changing their minds about all manner of things when presented with evidence and reasoned argument - there are some great stories about scientists thanking the person who proved them wrong - but you won't find any examples of them suddenly deciding one day that fairy stories are, after all, sufficient evidence to believe in fairies.
 
Pixel42 said:
Sceptics accept correction all the time. Here's a post where I did so only a few hours ago.

Nearly all sceptics started off believing things which they changed their minds about after they learned how to think critically - I, for example, believed in the paranormal in my teens and into my twenties - but I suspect that's not what you're asking for.
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IT is good I found you here, Pixel Lady!

You might be a notable exception to the skeptic rule of excruciating proof demands!

I really would like to discuss the topic here as I find it beyond skeptic domain.

My posts above, claimed the impossible to prove existence of remote galaxies and stars. Astronomers can readily prove the stars were there by the time their light was emitted, thousands of years ago, but they could only theorize their possible existence today.
It is one of the things beyond skeptic reach. Should skeptics deny the existence of remote galaxies because it cannot be sustained with factual evidence?

Being that far, it would require to travel at light speed for such time length, what is impossible today, so we can conclude this condition makes skeptic denial or approval beyond point. Right or wrong?

Then there is the matter of life and death and spirituality.
We can only assume there is a "beyond realm" but no body can prove it is a false or true assumption, precisely because it is beyond proof.
Nevertheless, this non provable condition does not establish a clear notion it does not exist. Neither thing can be proved.

I wonder if you are able to "tweak" your skeptical foundation enough as to switch points of view, which seems a very difficult task for skeptic minds.

There is an inevitable situation where the chances for right or wrong are exactly 50%. Let's say you get to the conclusion of strongly denying the idea of an after life. What if you are wrong? What if you are right?

Let's say I get to the conclusion of strongly admitting the reality of an after life. What if I am right? What if I am wrong?

We both won't know until 'the time' comes, right?

We cannot both be right or wrong. Or... could we?

That is the main dilemma... How could we be both right or wrong? Is that possible...

I might dare to say, it is possible. Of course this requires a total coordination between right and left brains. If there would be such a realm where we could find either life after death or plain annihilation, we both could be right, but it would depend on an internal element of self, not related to reason, but to something else, similar to emotion, intuition or hiding sense as the subconscious mind, capable of causing the satisfaction for both!

Consider the lack of proof makes us both believers. You might believe there is nothing I might believe there is something.

Maybe the simple act of believing is the element in case. We would be granted our intimate beliefs.... Or not!

Who knows? I think it is our responsibility to find the answer for ourselves, without any external intervention of books, ideas, opinions, facts, proofs, arguments, philosophies, guilds, religions, clubs or forums....
 
MikeAparicio said:
-[snip]-

Who knows? I think it is our responsibility to find the answer for ourselves, without any external intervention of books, ideas, opinions, facts, proofs, arguments, philosophies, guilds, religions, clubs or forums....
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I ask again Why should I believe anything for which there is no evidence for?

So I should find answers but don't get sidetracked by silly things like facts or anything like that. Got it
 
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MikeAparicio said:
Can you point to a single post ever , where a skeptic has shown a change of mind?
I would be less skeptic about skeptics if you can...
Click to expand...

Skeptics pretty much follow the evidence and change their minds accordingly.

For example, I, a skeptic, just learned that ostriches don't actually bury their heads in the ground and I just changed my mind.
 
MikeAparicio said:
It is one of the things beyond skeptic reach. Should skeptics deny the existence of remote galaxies because it cannot be sustained with factual evidence?
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It's true that we can't know for certain that a galaxy whose light has taken millions of years to reach us is still there, but we can look at other galaxies, both nearer and further away, and work out how galaxies evolve. Based on that understanding a sceptic would take as their working assumption that it is indeed still there, and the burden of proof would be on anyone who asserts it isn't to support that assertion.

Being that far, it would require to travel at light speed for such time length, what is impossible today, so we can conclude this condition makes skeptic denial or approval beyond point. Right or wrong?
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I can't parse the sentence, so I've no idea if it's right or wrong.

Then there is the matter of life and death and spirituality.
We can only assume there is a "beyond realm" but no body can prove it is a false or true assumption, precisely because it is beyond proof.
Click to expand...
Everything we know about how the brain works strongly suggests that it generates consciousness, and that therefore consciousness does not survive the death of the brain. So that's the hypothesis which a sceptic assumes to be true until evidence that it isn't is presented.

I wonder if you are able to "tweak" your skeptical foundation enough as to switch points of view, which seems a very difficult task for skeptic minds.
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It's very easy to get a sceptic to change their mind about anything. Just present evidence and/or reasoned argument.

There is an inevitable situation where the chances for right or wrong are exactly 50%. Let's say you get to the conclusion of strongly denying the idea of an after life. What if you are wrong? What if you are right?
Click to expand...
The fact that there are two possible answers to a question does not mean that both answers are equally likely.

Based on the evidence available it seems to me to be far more likely than not that there is no afterlife, so that's my working assumption. If it turns out that there is, I will be pleasantly surprised.

If there would be such a realm where we could find either life after death or plain annihilation, we both could be right, but it would depend on an internal element of self, not related to reason, but to something else, similar to emotion, intuition or hiding sense as the subconscious mind, capable of causing the satisfaction for both!

Consider the lack of proof makes us both believers. You might believe there is nothing I might believe there is something.

Maybe the simple act of believing is the element in case. We would be granted our intimate beliefs.... Or not!

Who knows?
Click to expand...
Maybe unicorns exist on Pluto. Who knows?

Baseless speculation is fun, but pointless.

I think it is our responsibility to find the answer for ourselves, without any external intervention of books, ideas, opinions, facts, proofs, arguments, philosophies, guilds, religions, clubs or forums....
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Generations of our ancestors took thousands of years to painstakingly accumulate the mountain of knowledge and understanding which is available to everyone alive today who can read and knows where the nearest library is. To wilfully ignore it seems extremely ungrateful, to say the least.
 
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