WTC Dust Study Feb 29, 2012 by Dr. James Millette

[jaydeehess]

Anyone shown that these red-grey chips can ignite in an atmosphere devoid of oxygen yet?

 

[Sunstealer]

1. kaolin is not going to produce any silicon rich microspheres

2. gray layer is not going to form iron rich microspheres.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_28544514ca6f7bcc08.jpg[/qimg]

You have produced an earlier graph that I posted.

If you are looking to use that as some sort of proof or aid to your argument then you should kindly explain in detail what that graph represents and how it supports your argument.

For example: Can you please explain what the C + CO₂= 2CO line(s) represents and how that fits within the context of the graph in regard to the direct iron oxide reduction using CO.

Thanks.

 

[Sunstealer]

that particle sunstealer is showing is about 5x that of what jones and co describe in their paper. look how long it is.

Which particle? What are you talking about? Why don't you post comparison pictures?

 

[Sunstealer]

they just dont know what an enjoyable read it really is.

No, they read it and realised it for the pile of excrement it is. You are simply trolling - it looks like you had a ban and couldn't wait to get back to posting nonsense.....


......As usual


"No substance, No sense, Senenmut." That's your catch phrase.

 

[Senenmut]

You have produced an earlier graph that I posted.

If you are looking to use that as some sort of proof or aid to your argument then you should kindly explain in detail what that graph represents and how it supports your argument.

For example: Can you please explain what the C + CO₂= 2CO line(s) represents and how that fits within the context of the graph in regard to the direct iron oxide reduction using CO.

Thanks.

the line you mark is where one would need 45-50% CO and at an atmosphere just like at the top of mt everest to produce any iron.
there should be many paints out there that you could test this unrealistic hypothesis.

 

[Senenmut]

Which particle? What are you talking about? Why don't you post comparison pictures?

what? are you serious. haha....i dont have too. the line to measure the particle in question is right there in the picture?????

 

[Senenmut]

No, they read it and realised it for the pile of excrement it is. You are simply trolling - it looks like you had a ban and couldn't wait to get back to posting nonsense.....


......As usual


"No substance, No sense, Senenmut." That's your catch phrase.

you just dont like the conclusion the paper has to offer and what the geopolitical results would be if it became more mainstream.....

 

[Sunstealer]

what? are you serious. haha....i dont have too. the line to measure the particle in question is right there in the picture?????

So do the analysis - show what is wrong. I'm more than big enough to admit an error or are you just trolling?

 

[Redwood]

Why did they fail to produce any sample in the paper that was not thermite? Why is there zero mention that their method of isolation produced a chip/sample that was not thermite?

Could it be that they're agenda-driven charlatans producing cargo-cult pseudoscience for credulous fools?

 

[Senenmut]

So do the analysis - show what is wrong. I'm more than big enough to admit an error or are you just trolling?

it is in response to your post 2390. i just stated that the particle in question is way larger than what the "plate-like" structures jones' speaks of in his paper. they state they are about 1 micron across. whereas the particle you point out is about as big as the iron rich particle which is about 5 microns across.

 

[Redwood]

Originally Posted by Senenmut
some data. where are the silicon and iron rich microspheres in millettes data? thats the important part of the data.

No. what you are asking is meaningless.

Instead what you should be doing is actually comparing Millette's data with that found in Harrit et al. This isn't difficult, there is plenty there. Millette even told you what he used and why.

Perhaps pattern recognition and pattern matching is not your forte. You only need to find similarity.

Why don't you practice?

Play a game of "snap" - pack of cards (best not use Ace to King but something more pictorial) dealt equally between two players, each player lays down a card in turn, then if the two dealt cards match up the first person to call snap wins all the dealt cards.

If you play against a 3 year old using generic cards such as chicken, car, spade etc and you may get the gist of it and even win a few.

It really is a s simple as that - just match patterns between Millette and Harrit et al'd data.

You're not suggesting that Harrit & Jones make like real, conscientious researchers and release their FTIR and XRD data, are you?

 

[Senenmut]

You're not suggesting that Harrit & Jones make like real, conscientious researchers and release their FTIR and XRD data, are you?

id like to see it...yeah. we got one chips FTIR it looks like. id like to see more.

 

[Sunstealer]

it in response to your post 2390. i just stated that the particle in question is way larger that what the "plate-like" structures jones' speaks of in his paper. they state they are about 1 micron across. whereas the particle you point out is about as big as the iron rich particle which is about 5 microns across.

You do realise that the SEM photograph in question is actually from th harrit et al paper don't you? I used the scale in that SEM photograph to estimate the diameter of the spherical particle.

Why don't you spend 1/2 hour and actually go into some sort of depth regarding your own analysis?

I see that you have totally ignored the fact that a particle containing any pure/free/elemental Al would no be observed if that particle had been subjected to temperatures beyond it's melting point.

Care to comment on why that is? No thought not.

You are trolling again because you have nothing.

 

[Senenmut]

You do realise that the SEM photograph in question is actually from th harrit et al paper don't you? I used the scale in that SEM photograph to estimate the diameter of the spherical particle.

of coarse i do.

Why don't you spend 1/2 hour and actually go into some sort of depth regarding your own analysis?

i know it is larger than the the "plate-like" structures that are about 1 micron across they speak of.

I see that you have totally ignored the fact that a particle containing any pure/free/elemental Al would no be observed if that particle had been subjected to temperatures beyond it's melting point.

i didnt ignore it but b/c that particle is 5x's larger than what the authors state as the source of the AL, i just didnt think much of it.

Care to comment on why that is? No thought not.

not many thoughts...sorry. 5x larger= probably not the AL.

You are trolling again because you have nothing.

i gotta alittle something something....does millette have alittle something...kinda like silicon and iron rich microspheres...i think NOT!

 

[pgimeno]

Anyone shown that these red-grey chips can ignite in an atmosphere devoid of oxygen yet?

I think Ivan said the polymer would degrade at that temperature even under pure nitrogen. I don't remember if he said it would be exothermic too.

 

[MileHighMadness]

This is how Control Demolition is done! Every steel member is cut in less than 1 second. Thermite cannot do this...

 

[jtl]

The idea that normal paint could have produce reduced iron spheres, from fully oxidized iron, in the DSC, is very interesting. It would be a lot more credible if the idea came from an actual expert on the subject, instead of an anonymous person on some forum.

But since we are talking about science, not faith, having some expert giving us an idea for a possible explanation(a hypothesis)would not be enough, we need the hypothesis proved in an experiment.

So if you want anyone to take this seriously, let´s have some experimental proof published. TALK IS CHEAP.

Given that you guys already paid Millette, ask him to do it, and let him give us the references to explain the process that reduced the molten spheres in a reviewed and published paper.

Why is everyone avoiding this? What´s wrong? Just ask Millette to prove that Sunstealer is right about epoxy making the reduced spheres, and publish the paper. End of story.

 

[Spanx]

Why is everyone avoiding this? What´s wrong? Just ask Millette to prove that Sunstealer is right about epoxy making the reduced spheres, and publish the paper. End of story.

Why not ask Jones & Co to prove Millette is wrong ?

Or even better, release some chips, oh that's right, their not going to do anything and just hope that people like you will keep their dream alive for them.

 

[Ivan Kminek]

I think Ivan said the polymer would degrade at that temperature even under pure nitrogen. I don't remember if he said it would be exothermic too.

Indeed, usual polymer binders would degrade even under pure nitrogen in that temperature range.
I provided my clear experimental TGA results on epoxy composite (Laclede primer imitation) many months ago:

Another issue is if this degradation of epoxy around ca 400 degrees C is exothermic or endothermic.

That time, I found this good paper on epoxy thermal/oxidative degradation.

According to the paper, even epoxy degradation under inert is exothermic, see those two screenshots:

This is why I warned that time: we should be very careful here, since even DTA or DSC measurements on WTC paint under inert can provide exotherms, which can be again attributed to thermitic reaction by truthers!

But, I'm still not sure that thermal degradation of epoxy resins under inert is always exothermic in DSC/DTA device. Just realize (among others) that the evaporation of degradation products is endothermic process. And DSC data on polymer degradation are quite scarce (for reasons I have repeated several times).

(I think that Oystein has found some additional - and contradicting? - data in Ferranti's thesis, I will check it...)

 

[Sunstealer]

of coarse i do.


i know it is larger than the the "plate-like" structures that are about 1 micron across they speak of.


i didnt ignore it but b/c that particle is 5x's larger than what the authors state as the source of the AL, i just didnt think much of it.


not many thoughts...sorry. 5x larger= probably not the AL.


i gotta alittle something something....does millette have alittle something...kinda like silicon and iron rich microspheres...i think NOT!

Fig 5 in Harrit et al clearly shows hexagonal platelets larger than 1µm in diameter.

The post DSC residue Fig 21 clearly shows more than one hexagonal platelet. The one resting on the sphere is simply the largest and clearest of them.

Fig 21 also has the same platelets in post DSC residue.

Funny the way your mind doesn't work. A particle with the exact same characteristics as all the others but simply to the right of the Gaussian distribution and you dismiss it because you would rather use the maximum amount of wilful ignorance instead of facing reality.