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On Consciousness

Is consciousness physical or metaphysical?

  • Consciousness is a kind of data processing and the brain is a machine that can be replicated in othe

    Votes: 81 86.2%

  • Consciousness requires a second substance outside the physical material world, currently undetectabl

    Votes: 3 3.2%

  • On Planet X, unconscious biological beings have perfected conscious machines

    Votes: 10 10.6%
  • Total voters
    94
  • Poll closed .
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Zeuzzz said:
Real physics has nothing much to say about biology and consciousness in general. Unless you get into Quantum biologyWP and Quantum mindWP theories, which much more helpful at usefully bridging this chasm of ignorance between the disciplines.
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Wrong, physics describes all sorts of biochemical events.
 
Zeuzzz said:
I meant sheldrake, typo, in a rush. He has convinced skeptics by showing his data of late, I have watched a video where he get attacked relentlessly by questions by someone in the audience, and in the end the person gave him and standing ovation, as he answered each skeptical question objectively and correctly. I also convinced one person that the fact he is doing experiments to prove his vague theory that he is not a write off (farsight). Even though no one seems to have looked at them in great depth, so I will post some soon instead of supplying the links to them.
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Data and evidence still lacking
 
Zeuzzz said:
I meant sheldrake, typo, in a rush. He has convinced skeptics by showing his data of late...
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A somewhat unconvincing excuse - you actually said, "my data convinced what may be called a couple of the extremely hard nose skeptics here". An improbable 'typo'...

In any case, your opinion that Sheldrake has convinced a couple of what you thought were 'hard-nose skeptics', isn't useful. Instead of opining on Sheldrake, why not present some of this convincing evidence?
 
quarky said:
i still like sheldrake better than oprah.
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Arguably he does less damage than that earful of wax!

I should say that travesty of an earful of wax... she's a crime against public education, with her Dr Oz etc.... oh how the ignorant masses have their ignorance deepened and broadened by those gangsters!

:covereyes:mad:
 
PixyMisa said:
Wrong wrong wrongity wrong.

Physics rules everything in biology; it has so much to say that you take it all for granted.
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It rules the basic governing laws, but works differently. Mechanical entropies arrow of time is in effect reversed by living systems, for example. We do not know why. The only real way we could model consciousness with physics is by using quantum physics and quatum mind/body properties, but you immediately dismiss them as woo and 'quantum mysticism' (you have at least every time, up to now)

The universe is basically in a flux with mechanical systems decaying and getting more complex with time via entropy vs life evolving into ever more structured systems
 
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Zeuzzz said:
It rules the basic governing laws, but works differently. Mechanical entropies arrow of time is in effect reversed by living systems, for example. We do not know why. The only real way we could model consciousness with physics is by using quantum physics and quatum mind/body properties, but you immediately dismiss them as woo and 'quantum mysticism' (you have at least every time, up to now)

The universe is basically in a flux with mechanical systems decaying and getting more complex with time via entropy vs life evolving into ever more structured systems
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No entropy is not reversed by living systems, they increase entropy to exist.

More wrong from you Zeuzzz? This has been exopalined to you before, living systems can not reverse entropy, they generate it.

And yes your use of the word quantum is woo in context, are you really using a wiki citation?

To explain soem woo?

What basis is there in real research for quantum biology or quantum mind?
 
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tsig said:
You do have a romantic side.
:(:o:):D
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i too have noticed a softer side of pixy lately.
it worries me a bit.

i see pixy as the body guard here.

i wonder if he/she is in love, or something goofy like that?

we must crush it, lest we lose protection.
 
Dancing David said:
No entropy is not reversed by living systems, they increase entropy to exist.

More wrong from you Zeuzzz? This has been exopalined to you before, living systems can not reverse entropy, they generate it.

And yes your use of the word quantum is woo in context, are you really using a wiki citation?

To explain soem woo?

What basis is there in real research for quantum biology or quantum mind?
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It's sometimes called negative entropy. Here is the wiki.

Negative entropy

Later, building on this premise, in the famous 1944 book What is Life?, Nobel-laureate physicist Erwin Schrödinger theorizes that life, contrary to the general tendency dictated by the Second law of thermodynamics, decreases or maintains its entropy by feeding on negative entropy.[5] In his note to Chapter 6 of What is Life?, however, Schrödinger remarks on his usage of the term negative entropy:

Let me say first, that if I had been catering for them [physicists] alone I should have let the discussion turn on free energy instead. It is the more familiar notion in this context. But this highly technical term seemed linguistically too near to energy for making the average reader alive to the contrast between the two things.

This is what is argued to differentiate life from other forms of matter organization. In this direction, although life's dynamics may be argued to go against the tendency of second law, which states that the entropy of an isolated system tends to increase, it does not in any way conflict or invalidate this law, because the principle that entropy can only increase or remain constant applies only to a closed system which is adiabatically isolated, meaning no heat can enter or leave. Whenever a system can exchange either heat or matter with its environment, an entropy decrease of that system is entirely compatible with the second law.[6] The problem of organization in living systems increasing despite the second law is known as the Schrödinger paradox.[7]

In 1964, James Lovelock was among a group of scientists who were requested by NASA to make a theoretical life detection system to look for life on Mars during the upcoming space mission. When thinking about this problem, Lovelock wondered “how can we be sure that Martian life, if any, will reveal itself to tests based on Earth’s lifestyle?” [8] To Lovelock, the basic question was “What is life, and how should it be recognized?” When speaking about this issue with some of his colleagues at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, he was asked what he would do to look for life on Mars. To this, Lovelock replied:

I’d look for an entropy reduction, since this must be a general characteristic of life.[8]

Thus, according to Lovelock, to find signs of life, one must look for a “reduction or a reversal of entropy.”
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Why should quantum theory be banished from biology or consciousness? Just because it's weird ... a bit like consciousness is. Odd that ;)

Quantum biologyWP
 
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Zeuzzz said:
It rules the basic governing laws, but works differently. Mechanical entropies arrow of time is in effect reversed by living systems, for example. We do not know why. The only real way we could model consciousness with physics is by using quantum physics and quatum mind/body properties, but you immediately dismiss them as woo and 'quantum mysticism' (you have at least every time, up to now)

The universe is basically in a flux with mechanical systems decaying and getting more complex with time via entropy vs life evolving into ever more structured systems
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If only there was some source of energy radiating on the Earth.

Second Law arguments are so lame.
 
Zeuzzz said:
Negative entropy defines life. Did you miss it?
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I guess you really believe you are making some meaningful point here about "the mysteriousness of life." The fact of the matter is that the second law of thermodynamics applies to closed systems. Entropy can decrease for a subsystem when energy is taken from the larger system. An easy to understand example of this relates to the formation of crystals where entropy is decreased at the expense of the surrounding greater system, where the entropy is inevitably increasing. There is no mysterious woo-magic about crystals and there is no mysterious woo-magic about life. All the organisms on earth are a subsystem where entropy is decreasing at the expense of the sun which is increasing its entropy on an overwhelmingly greater scale.
But please do not be deterred from your ongoing quest for woo-meister material. You can always retreat back to the world of magic mushrooms.
 
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Zeuzzz said:
It's sometimes called negative entropy. Here is the wiki.




Why should quantum theory be banished from biology or consciousness? Just because it's weird ... a bit like consciousness is. Odd that ;)

Quantum biologyWP
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More wiki, care to point to actual research that demonstrates any of your wild speculation Zeuzzz?

Or that life defies entropy, what exactly happens in digestion and metabolism Zeuzzz?
 
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